Prevention of child abduction by Polish mother.

You paint with a mighty wide brush, my man. You speak not for women; not in general, and not of this forum. Nor do you speak for me, a guy unthreatened by strong-willed women. There's usually a reason for everything, and I'm sure that's the case with your quotidian misogyny you masquerade as objective social analysis. But much like Anglik's forsaken love, I don't care to guess the reasons why.

....and I carry a big stick.


You may be unaware that the "strong-willed" argument is passe. I'm surprised some people still use it. You are about 20 years behind the times.


How did you know that I was born in Quotidiana?
It's nice to see a 'white knight' like you come to the aid of feminists in distress.
They will accept your servitude, but they still won't like you.


For Halloween I dressed as Lady Godiva. (It was really very very difficult to pull off).


Oh, c'mon, you do care, that's why you said that you don't. (that's called a 'tell').

Darn. I try so hard to be trendy and cutting edge, even when sleeping. Dude. Ever word you say comes from the White Male Chauvinist Catalog, circa 1972. Every single word. Let's not have the windbag call the kettle black. Or something.

jeez, natasia, that is just as bad of a scenario as the abuser one! Now we have two extreme possibilities.
(and as with most scenarios, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle).
In my mind, I have some questions about your scenario as well.
Doesn't every girl want to meet prince charming, get married and all that?
Is it possible that the relationship went to sht and some of these women take the stance you've described to save face? Like "that's what I wanted anyway"?

And all these catholic Polish grandmas are a part of this insidious plot?
If that's what the woman wants from the beginning, wouldn't it be easier to just go to a sperm bank?

Just use common sense. It works.


I've addressed issues that weren't even around in 1972. Indeed, I dare state that you don't know that you don't know what is really going on. Why don't you take a long look at this link. Try to neutralize your preconceptions and I know that it's a difficult thing to do, and read a few articles from this female author. It'll help get you up-to-date with contemporary issues as opposed to old-style feminist rhetoric.

the-spearhead.com/author/female-masculinist

It helped me move my lunch a little closer to my throat. That site was a cesspool. But thanks.

Somehow, I doubt if you bothered to read much or any of it. You're not ready to jump out of your small fishbowl yet. Perhaps with time you will open your mind and grow.

By the way, in order to advance your dubious debating skills, I recommend that you show 'why' you agree or disagree with a premise. Merely stating that you disagree with something doesn't count because there is no 'there' there (with apologies to Gertrude Stein).

It's not really a secret that in general, women get better breaks when it comes to domestic violence issues, child kidnapping or even murder. Just living life one sees it. For example; in the U.S. men who kill their spouses receive an average prison sentence of 17 years. Women who murder theirs' receive an average prison sentence of 7 years. That sort of variant is consistent in other crime categories ranging from robbery to adult/minor sex. The legal system gives women a break (exceptions duly noted).

Of course, women probe as to what motivates women to commit certain acts. Often they make excuses for them. They don't do the same inquiries where men are concerned. That's our current societal conditioning at work.

Bringing these sorts of inequities to light seems to disturb those who prefer to remain in the dark. That's why the issue of child kidnapping is judged differently depending on the sex of the perpetrator. That's why some posters here question the man even when the female kidnapper is the one who did the deed. At some level they must know better. I hope so.

Get Back to the original topic.
Zimmy, this forum is about Poland and not the US. Last warning for you.

Child abduction by a parent is wrong,but I feel it is not as heinous as if someone else did it.

I don't think anyone does, Zimmy, but bitter, lonely guys. Anyone subscribing to this alpha male crap should have their head examined. I skim about every 10th post you write, hoping that one day you'll start reading something more intelligent, and you always disappoint.

Yes to the saving face. Face is very important. (Another branch of this is the 'never say sorry/thank you' doctrine which is practised by many - absolutely extraordinary - but that is another post ...).

The Polish grandmas: they are very very quick to turn. They will have been highly suspicious at the outset, of the taking of a foreign man. They will feel much more comfortable now that he is out of the way.

But ... I am not saying that the woman wanted this from the beginning. If so, why go for the English guy? No, I am not saying that this was some 'plot', planned and executed. Not at all. The romance and, to some degree, glamour of dating an English guy (is 'glamour' too strong a word?!) (the novelty value, then) ... all of that I would imagine definitely played a part. And maybe she enjoyed someone being so nice to her, and so easy to manipulate, for a while. But there came a point where this role-play just didn't work for her, and she couldn't be doing with it. And it is at this moment that he became nothing, and she just carried on regardless.

Do I feel sorry for her? No, and I doubt she feels sorry for herself. There is nothing to feel sorry for. She is ok. She is extraordinarily tough by British terms, but actually she is just a normal Polish gal getting on with it.


I'm afraid I think the possibility I have painted is most likely the norm, even if seemingly extreme ...


You're welcome, although I am very sorry for you that it is like that.


Thank you, too. I try. Well, in fact, I don't try: it all just comes out of my mouth. Can you even begin to imagine the havoc I cause among Polish society ... ; )

Oh and just have to comment on this:


(ran out of time)


This is such a subject ... vast ... and yes, a minefield ... and so difficult for a 'man' to comment, given the nature of the subject ... (an aside: don't you think there should be a mechanism whereby people could write papers, have their voice, etc, without declaring their sex?) ... (that would be true equality ; ) ... but:

The point about Polish women is that they have, in general, had a very different programming re: what a woman is. The US/Western machine turns us out as victims before we've even started, whereas the Polish system (propulgated by grandmas over many a cup of crazily strong coffee) produces women equally convinced of their rightness, but through bullishness and being the dominant one. Taking no prisoners. Western women take prisoners and then feel bad about it and aren't quite sure what to do - make the prisoner a cup of tea - give him a blowjob - and then call the Police ...

That is why I have always refused to label myself a woman. I realised from my teenage years that the term had very mixed connotations. I am simply myself. : )

Oh c'mon; make it the second to last warning; okay?
But of course you are right. Many of us do tend to stray from the subject matter at hand.
Moderators put in time and effort and that is sometimes under appreciated, but not by me even when I disagree with some procedure or another.


I know what you're saying. I've run into that here. I don't know if it's strength or a kind of stubborness. It does seem to be in the center of their being.

I still can't figure out natasia...
Are you, by any chance, in love with a man that is pining for his children in Poland? Would you tell me if I was close?

I would tell you, but no, not at all (although an amusing idea).

No. Yes, I am with a Polish guy. I have a child with him. He has other children as well.

The emotional heart/motivation for my comments is more, probably, my own astonishment at the Polish female character, as I continually observe it ... so I guess it struck a chord, and I felt a bit (a lot) sorry for the father posting here. And I am rather keen on the proper recognition of fathers, whatever their nationality. And I don't like the busy bossiness of some Polish mothers (sorry to all you perfectly nice ones out there!) ...

I've known, or known of the women you're describing. You've said it youreslf, it all starts with good intentions. And then, when the relationship goes to sht (for some unknown reasons that are most in dispute here), some of them have to get tough, or end up on walfare. We're not talking about jetsetters here I presume. Maybe going back to Poland is not such a bad idea. I was just wondering where the disdain for the "clan gathering around her" comes from. That's the first place you should go when you need help - family. Don't you agree?

Hi. Is your lawyer aware that you are on this forum posting about your legal matters? If not, it might be prudent to let her know asap.

Hi Ozi Dan

I checked everything with my solicitor including the wording before posting to be sure. Also I have kept everything vague and unattributable, that is why when people have asked for more details I haven't provided them. Also had a friend checking my replies. Thanks for looking out for me!

It is not disdain, but rather an awareness of a cultural difference that I think it would be useful if the poster were wise to. My English mother, had the father done nothing wrong, would counsel kindness, understanding, and, without even a question, reasonable access to the child and sharing of responsibilities. The Polish matriarchal clan (and that is why I mentioned the matriarchal element first) works on the unquestionable principle that men are generally superfluous to requirements, in all the key areas, and certainly when it comes to decision-making, and children. Men are looked after like children. Men are a responsibility in themselves. A woman cooks, washes and irons for the man and children. The deal is that the man goes out early, earns as much as he can, comes home for his dinner, (if he is appreciative of it, that's a bonus), and then rests, ready for the next day's work. On a Saturday he might have a few drinks, but better to keep him on a short rein and not let it get out of hand, because drunken men can be aggressive, and alcoholics don't generally earn as well as sober men.

And my feeling about the gathering of the female clan about the mother is that they were already only tolerating the relationship through willing (more or less) suspension of disbelief that it would work. So when it didn't work, the assumption that the child was the mother's property - almost booty from the relationship - would have been absolute.

It is this presumption of 'possession', and lack of any respect for the potential value of the father's role in the child's life, let alone any right either child or father might have to that relationship, that is at issue here. I think that is typical of the dominant-matriarch society. I wanted the poster to be aware of this, so he could steel himself and not get upset about it, but also not waste time thinking he could depend on some sort of moral fairness that just doesn't exist here. He needs to know what the rules are, and they are different to what he would generally find with a British woman ... I think.


Maybe it isn't - BUT, in that decision, there should be consideration for maintenance/development of the child's relationship with his or her father. That is what this question is all about.

Here is a matriarchial society:

youtube.com/watch?v=5pOlqCn8OPU

Sperm banks dont pay child maintenance......

We were talking about a woman that does not want any support from a man.

Anglik1, Only you know your motivations and the situation as it is.I myself suggest listening to your lawyer.We can go on and on

about men and women.If you have searched your heart and decided on a course.Then stick with it and You don't have to justify

yourself to anyone.I hope it works out the best for you and the child.

Reading this thread with interest because for various reasons I have been involved in many of these cases.
There is a lot of stupid debating going on.
Fact: sometimes the men are twats,sometimes the women are b...ches.
Fact: sometimes the poles are twats, sometimes the non poles are twats.
My advice Anglkl.
1. Establish paternity.
2. Set up a standing order for child support to mother's bank,if not possible set up indendent account for money,solicitor will advise.
3. Go for parental responsibility order.
4. Establish visiting rights.
5. If the lady goes to Poland you can establish access and child support via Polish ccourts. Difficult but not impossible. Child support will be higher.

If you are at all worried about the welfare of the child get the police to do a safety visit. You can also ask social sevices to check .

I tell this because you and all non resident parents should be aware of possible problems
Recently I had to deal with a non pole who was not allowed to see his kid unless he paid large amounts of cash to the polish mum. Mum had moved in with alcholic boyfriend and mates, is defrauding benefits and permanently drunk and the child neglected and seeing things it shouldn't. Happens with british mums too. F...ing stupid social services are ***** footing about because of 'cultural awareness' issues, they are little better with brit cases but your area may be better

Any way get the matter sorted for everyone's sake. Good luck.