What is the reaction of Poles to Russian?

And in the same time Russian have much more borrowings from Western languages than from Eastern.It is clamed to be 10% similar to German due to borrowings.Start from a few: vagon,compjuter,divan,mebel`,stol,stool,lampa,careta,stal` (steel), moneta.And Polish words ``kon```, ``kobyla`` and ``oko`` which stand for ``loshad`` and ``glaz`` sound and mean the same in Russian.

"glaz" is of Slavic origin (compare with Polish "glądać"). Some say about German origin ("glass") though.

Clearly it is so. And I do not dispute that. And all other slavic languages have those borrowings as well, therefore they do not stand out as a difference. But the presence of tartar/turk/ugro-finnic vocabulary in russian language is what really makes it stand out.


there is no such word, perhaps you meant "oglądać". However the connection glaz/oglądać may be purely incidental. All other slavic languages use "oko". "Głaz" in polish means a large stone.

Polish has even more borrowings from German cause it's our neighbouring language for centuries.
German on the other hand borrowed much less words from Polish, most common one is grenze - granica - boarder.

Oh dear... I'm sorry! It's because Vlad123 didn't give the author of the quote ;) And you guys all look so alike! lol

;))


filmweb.pl/film/Ma%C5%82a+Moskwa-2008-370628 (Btw, this film has won many awards on Polish film festivals.)

filmweb.pl/film/Szwadron-1992-1167


I guess I would have to find some text in Ukrainian and check how much I'd be able to understand. But I imagine you know Russian better than me so you have an advantage ;)


Polish also has quite large non-Slavic vocabulary.
German, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanism_(linguistics)#Polish
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanizm


at Polish film festivals ;P ;)

Vlad123, maybe you could give me a link to some text in Ukrainian? Preferably something not the most difficult ;)

Paulina, did you read all posts? German/french/english borrowings are present in all slavic languages. Turkic/ugro-finnic ones are not, except in russian. That's why it stands out and is less understandable than, say, ukrainian.

there is a good handfull of Turkic borrowings in Polish

czambuł, bachmat, buńczuk, jasyr, dzianet, karabela, etc

True. But how often do you use them? Russians use words of turkic origin on a daily basis, and in everyday speech. Reading russian webpages helped me realize that.

Um... Maybe not :) But I wouldn't be surprised if Polish had more German loanwords than East Slavic languages.


Hungarian is also a Finno-Ugric language:
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungaryzm
...and gulasz, harcerz, puchar, etc.

So not only in Russian.


I think Ukrainian is more understandable for us, because it has more words similar to Polish. I may be wrong but it looks to me like Ukrainian is a mix of Russian and Polish (due to geography and historical reasons).

Btw, some Russian nationalists claim that Ukrainian is an artificial language invented by Poles to drag away Ukrainians from Russia, set them against Russians, etc. lol

I wonder if Ukrainians think the same?
Or maybe it was about Belarusian (or both)...

Is Polish your native language?Do you understand Russian alphabet?Ukrainian alphabet is a bit different from Russian.Or you want me to give you Ukrainian text which is writen in Polish or Latin alphabet?If you know Russian alphabet but not Ukrainian I will explain you differences and try to give some text in Ukrainian.

Personally as Ukrainian I think there is more important questions than language.What Ukraine really needs now is political,social and economic development.I could speak both Russian and Ukrainian and do not see any serious problem there.I even like that there exist differen languages,it allows for example to listen to music and poetry writen in different languages what gives unique flavour and taste to songs and versas.

As I know 60 % of Ukrainians use Russian lang. in everyday life up to now and 90% of Ukrainians could speak in it.In Kiev or Eastern parts of Ukraine there is often situations when one person speaks in Russian and other answers in Ukrainian and they do not make trouble from it.Ukrainian of course have some borrowings from Polish but it doesn`t only make difference with Russian.Some Ukrainian words are rather more similar to Czech in pronounciation.For example: zvíře - zvir (beast) , děkuji - djakuju (thank you), střecha - strikha (roof).

Yes, Polish is my native language and I understand Russian alphabet.


Hmm... I don't know... Perhaps in Ukrainian alphabet, maybe I'll manage :)


If it's not a problem, it would be nice ^__^


I knew it! :D That's what I wrote earlier :]

In difference from Russian Ukrainian use ``i`` instead of ``и`` ; ``и`` instead of ``ы`` ; ``e`` instead of ``э`` ; ``є`` instead of ``e``.Letter `` ї `` sounds like ``ji`` (йи).It would be good if you will point to words that you would not be able to understand.


I decided to check dictionary of Turic borrowings in Russian and there seem to be not so many borrowings as you may think.One such list gives around 50 words,another approx. the same amount if not to count names of cities and countries and different forms of the same word.

turkportal.ru/projects/slovar-zaimstvovanij/tjurkizmy-v-russkom.html#А

But those words still are thematic and do not belong to most often used words in Russians with just a few exceptions.
Still I have doubts regarding some of them.For example they believe that such words as: tovarisch,bogatyr`,barsuk and tovary are Turic borrowings.But in Polish there is also words: towary,borsuk,bohater and towarzysz.I do not know if some of them are borrowing from Russian.

I've noticed the relationship between Poles and Russians is like that between a cat (Poland) and a tiger (Russia). Russians don't give a **** about Poles or Poland, but Poles seem to be obsessed with Russians. Inferiority complex, perhaps?

@PolskaKurwa You seem to be obsessed with Poles.

I know, pumpkin, I know, Russians who read everyday Polish comments translated into Russian write the exact same thing as you do ^__^
Maybe you're one of them? If yes, then give my regards to the She-Bear and her little bears - I didn't visit their forum for a long time lol Or maybe they got a life at last and shut down the forum? :P

Its true russians don't give a **** about Poland or much else lookibg at the world class rare failed white person country.

Poland and Russia are two countries separated as well as united by a common Slavic heritage, yet sharply divided by decades of Communist rule!
I think too that it's more than fair to say, the Poles suffered as MUCH under the Communists as the Russians themselves:-)

Young Poles today are more or less globalized to accept Russians as peers, much less as equals. They dress similarly, listening to the same type of music, often speak in English with one another and are as dead tired of Cold War stereotypes as contemporary Germans are of negative Nazi-era pigeon-holing!!

Older Poles are a different story. Over fifty, many seniors still fear the Russians and continue to associate them with the Communist terror of old.

Polish society therefore remains deeply polarized regarding their recent past, as best I've been able to assess the situation.

Are two different civilisations and cultures regardless of some Slavic similarities that are being mostly superficial and more pronounced on individual level..

Got the first part of the sentence, but am lost on the last part:-)

Did you mean that they bear only "a superficial similarity", though are essentially different way down deep?
:-))

Yes - that. Also I meant that there are some secondary similarities that can be detected during interpersonal interactions. :P

For example?

The only one I can think of which immediately comes to mind is the fact that even younger Polish men in formal situations still practice the well-known "hand kiss", something which my Russian acquaintances find ever so quaint, if laughable:-)

Oh yes, drinking in public. My experience with Russians vs. Poles abroad is that Russians often imbibe unabashedly, whereas Poles (of both sexes) are slightly, if only slightly, more moderateLOL

Do they? I think it is the thing of the past.
---


Bluntness, directness....

I've found Poles on the one hand to become almost excessively emotional about topics which concern their Polish national identity!
Once several years prior, I was teaching a class to a group of young to middle-aged Polish ESL students and the subject of Poland and recent Polish history came up during a group discussion. After having learned that I speak Polish and love many features of Polish music, art, cooking etc. it became time for the class to do their presentations.

One young lady of about twenty something, a lawyer from Warsaw with an astonishingly fluent English, became so moved during her presentation on the life of Pope John Paul aka Wojtyła, she became visible moved and tears began forming in her eyes, her voice started to tremble slightly and I thought she might have to stop her speech. She continued and while concluding her excellent talk, I noticed also the rest of the class, some of them wiping their eyes.

Russians I think would perceive this as more a sign of weakness than anything else. I never observed such behavior from any other nationality.

Well, I did come across quite a few Russians on the internet who seemed like they did "give a ****" about Poland or at least about what Poles think about Russia and Russians (to the point of being obsessive, even if they usually claimed they didn't care :)). Although I imagine that majority of Russian society doesn't know nor care much about Poland and Poles. I think it's similar to some extent with the majority of Polish society - I doubt Russia is constantly on the minds of ordinary Poles (I don't mean the media here or some politicians).

There is a difference of levels of interest between the countries, of course, but I don't think it stems from "inferiority complex" as the charming troll suggested but from the difference in potential of doing harm :) Elephants (countries like Russia) don't usually care where ants are going, because they don't have to, but ants (countries like Poland) have to know where elephants are going in order to survive. Hence the increased "interest" on the part of Poland and Poles.

Russians, on the other hand, seem to be greatly interested in Ukraine and Ukrainians which leads me to a conclusion that Russian interest isn't something I would necessarily wish upon my country and my people :P

Well I think the current semi-official Russian position is that Poland caused WWII through it's intransigent refusal to meet entirely reasonable German demands. I've seen that position outlined by a number of Russians (Putain's aςς-lιckers) writing in English.

Yes, there was even an article in "Rossijskaja Gazieta" (state newspaper), I think, which outlined this semi-official position and was emphatic towards Hitler on this issue :) It stems, of course, from the fact that the annexation of Crimea and general mood in Russia resembles the actions of Nazi Germany and the state of mind of Germans at that time and such comparisons were being made (the article appeared some time after the annexation). So Russian propaganda had to deal with that somehow. And they did that in a pretty twisted and shocking way - I must say that I was surprised to what lengths they can go, especially considering the hate of Russians towards the Nazis. It probably means that everything is possible now. Propaganda is capable of remarkable things - it wasn't the Nazis' fault that they invaded Poland, but Poland's, it isn't Russia's fault that it took Crimea - Ukraine was "asking for it". Blame the victim :) Pretty disgusting if you look at it from the moral point of view.

The Russians should constantly be reminded of their own pact with Herr Hitler (the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact) which was entirely "reasonable" for them at the moment of signing, but nevertheless did not prevent Germany from attacking Russia and from nearly crashing it later on.

Also, the pact of a slightly different nature agreed with Herr Hitler in Munchen in 1938 by Britain and France should be kept in mind as an example what the adjective "reasonable" really meant at that time.

Hitler basically pushed Stalin's man Molotov into signing! Ribbentrop was hoping that should Hitler declare war on Russia (which he eventually did!), Germany would, of course, emerge the victor, hence providing the ultimate Lebensraum for the Reich, making "GERMANIA" the capital of the largest country on earth.

Problem was, the Russians, namely Zhukov, were too smart for the over-confident Fuehrer who ignored his generals and didn't know his bumhole from his elbow about military strategy:-)

As usual, Poland was the buffer between Hitler and Stalin, forever caught in the middle, always a bridesmaid, but never a bride.

Seems she still hasn't made it to the altarLOL

I don't think Molotov had to be "pushed" - he was a long-lasting supporter of agreement with Germans.


As far as I remember Nazi Germany was courting Poland but Poland didn't feel like going to the altar with Hitler.


I guess we prefer marriage out of love, not pragmatism lol ;)

Why? How you can image to educate people or to influence them if they live in a different country with different ideas? Do you think that showing them fact would do the trick?

The point is that is a politically motived historical narration that has nothing to do with fact, the truth, or any other lofty ideas.
To counter that Poland needs to start her own historical narration in a smart, efficient and professional way.