WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION?

Mafketis, I respect your credentials but where did you pull that from? A fully-fledged Polish word that many Poles don't know? Wow, super!

They'd use zdarzenie or another similar word.

"Happening" has been used in the Polish media for a long time, since the early 90's at least to describe political street theater or unconventional public protests.

It's not a word that people use a lot in speech but it would be familiar to anyone who reads newspapers or watches the evening news on a semi-regular basis.

Seanus wrote:


precisely.

mafketis wrote:


"happening" has been a common polish word "for decades"? i find that VERY hard to believe. if i used that word in conversation with my in-laws, i doubt they'd understand.

the thread is about Poles using English words in conversation and considering Polish as stated already by Seanus has "zdarzenie", or even "wydarzenie", there is simply no need for "happening".

plus, let's face it, every time a pole uses any word ending in "ing", it sounds completely silly.

Note: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happening

and in the readings:

# Hanna Ptaszkowska, Happening w Polsce, "Współczesność" 1969 nr 9.
# Małgorzata Semil, O happeningu bez uwag, "Dialog" 1966 nr 7

Better yet, go to google and look up happeningiem, happeningu etc. It's not exactly an everyday word, but it's not rare either.


I don't necessarily disagree....

True, FUZZY. This is not a syllabarised language (now maybe that's not English, LOL). What I mean is that it is not Japanese where you have hiragana and katakana (kanji is another animal). For example, hiragana tells you it's tori and katakana, being the assimilation of foreign words, has it as chikinu (chicken).

However, Poglish is a different entity. In Japanese, there is modification. They make it work within their syllabary. Happening just has no Polish qualities to it. Maybe they hammer the G more ;) ;)

Seanus wrote:


yep.

i remember i was sitting down with my in-laws talking about something or other that was on TV, and i finally just said to them, because it seemed appropriate at the time, "well, any word that you hear, or use in Polish, that ends in "ing" is an English word." deer in headlights, followed by small nods, but i gotta hand it to them, they're always so open minded about that stuff and ready to listen. i've taught them so much about English over the years because it just seems to naturally come up in conversation.

You are lucky to have such a receptive audience. I have accepted that my wife's parents just aren't interested in English but I definitely don't hold it against them. They are bilingual so I respect them for that.

artinfo.pl/?pid=dictionary&id=40&lng=1

That link didn't work, Magda. It is a word from 1959. It is not Polish and doesn't have any Polish features.

It could be worse... my mum goes to the "chipszopa", buys things cheaper
"w pakiszopach", or goes "do Morrisona" for some "mięso beefowe".

I am not joking, either :D

It is a Polish borrowing of an English word which has been used in Polish for many decades now in a very specific, narrow meaning, explained in detail in the link. You must learn to live with this knowledge ;-)

Yes but it's not a "fully-fledged Polish word", is it? That's what I was contesting. It doesn't have Polish attributes and I've never heard it used here.

1) What are "Polish attributes" in a recent borrowing? What are the English attributes of "pukka" for that matter?

2) You may have never heard it used because you probably don't mix that much with the people who would tend to use it - e.g. theatre actors, street artists, etc. As I said, the usage of this word is rather limited.

Let's start with diacritical marks like ż, ć, ź, ą, ę and ś. Do you see any? I don't. It is an English word from NYC. Not in the slightest Polish but only borrowed without any modification. That's odd!

The English attribute is Jamie Oliver, a chef, who borrowed it from Hindi :) Britain, unless you hadn't noticed, is far more multicultural and evolves more than Polish does :)

Rather limited, yes, as borrowed words from another language can be :)

As odd as "lunch", "weekend", "radio", "komputer", "rower", "tenis", or "afrykata" (that's from linguistics). Nevertheless, all these words and more are used every day and there is no viable Polish alternative! ;-p


Oh no he didn't, it was borrowed much earlier than that. I strongly suspect Kipling of using it more than once. But again, what part of this word looks or sounds English, pray tell?

And while you are at it, explain the Englishness of "robot" to me as well. :-)

Like weekend or hobby or menu or jury?

The only criteria for a word being part of the Polish language is if enough native speakers use it. In the case of 'happening' (as a kind of political street theater) enough Polish speakers use it that it qualifies. It even gets declined, po happeningu, przed happeningiem etc.

The wyborcza headline in question uses 'happening' to stress the planned theatrical, slightly absurd nature of the (counter) protest. neither wydarzenia or zdarzenie would fit.

On the other hand, the movie from a couple of years ago "The Happening" was called Zdarzenie in Polish because calling it Happening (in Polish) would be completely misleading.

Lanch, WEEkend in Polish, often weekEND in English :) RAdio is not like our raydio. Rower, one who rows? LOL Tenis is tennis :) What's the point, btw? I mentioned Poglish above and borrowing is natural. I'm not disagreeing here.

We borrowed and incorporated, I told you. English is a highly evolutionary language and just look at the anger of Le Academie Francaise as evidence of how we overborrowed.

That doesn't make it right, mafketis. I had this discussion with my PhD student last Thursday. They were toying with Polish endings and decided that it would be more natural to modify it to a more Polish way, thus more recognisable, e.g instead of Matrix, it was Matriks. It is more easily changed to w Matriksie :) :) Poles would find it more workable too. Shorter words like taxi tend to stay as they are. He works for one of the leading publishers in Europe.

You see, I don't think enough Polish native speakers use it at all. You are overstating the point in a classic case of hyperbole.

There are sometimes occasions when no word in our own language accurately describes/encapsulates the nuance nicely so we borrow :) You are right on that point!

Rower, as in Rover (bicycle). You don't know the history of your own language well enough to see where the Polish word came from ;-p

I was joking when I said one that rows, true as it is. I know that Rover was a brand name of bicycle but we didn't use it like we used Hoover's invention to mean hoover. Again, you took it and modified it. Happening isn't modified and that's what I'm saying.

I acknowledge and see the changes as you do. It makes me laugh when Poles ask me what kiosk is in English, like it's a Polish word.

Well, radio, jury, internet, menu and lots of other words are not modified either. I don't get your drift. If you borrow a word like "pukka" or "robot" into English, it's not modified but that's OK because of what exactly? As opposed to the exact same phenomenon in Polish, that is.

Look at my point above regarding making it easier for Poles to use. Polish incorporation is generally of a different character as you have conjugations to contend with. How does w Matrixie look? Not that good! It has to be made more practical.

Take the word menu. We have no problems using it. Meni is easier for Poles to use.

The point is that it matters more for Poles to have the right endings :)

happening, happeningu, happeningiem, happeningi, happeningów... shall I continue? ;-)

You shall ;) ;)

Happeningu looks more Japanese :) Chizu (for cheese, smile for the camera).

Sorry, those words look ridiculous but thanks for the LOL :)

It just so 'happens' that this one fits but many don't. Try it out!

I just saw the word "beautifullne" on some Polish site. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccckkkk!!!!

It was a misspelling ;)

Yes same with me Drac90, I hate it! But it's in EVERY European country the same!!! English is the universal language, and everything hangs on America. Some Europeans treat Obama like it's their president! Stuuupid! I can't stand that. In Poland it is holy beliefe me, very very very holy. When I was in Sweden this spring, I almost understood every third word! LOL

In American usage, which I'm sure you'll agree is preferable, it's always WEEK-end (and you can't be at it either). When I hear British newscasters say "at the week-END" I wanna shout "What about the weak beginning?"

No, I don't agree that it's preferable, no. People prefer what people prefer and some prefer British which is equally valid. Your argument is sound if we accept numbers but that doesn't always dictate preference.

Irish usage is definitely the best because you can say weekend anyway you like and it still means the same thing, THE PUB! :)

Hehehe, that's true! Don't the Irish say pub a bit more like the Poles would say it? :)