Who is poor in Poland?

Well, those who live in remote areas effectively need cars as public transport there is very unreliable.

what I was saying goes way beyond their transportation problems Sean US. C'mon, whoever lives or lived in Poland knows that it's not really a lie that many Poles still have to struggle (and I mean a serious struggle) to survive.

I am already aware of that there are homeless people even in suburbs of Oslo.
Someones used the term Western countries as example to richness, I guess.

Generalizations are done by the states at top level, not by us ordinary folks. According to their generalizations, for ex, one of most important criteria that shows richness of a country is GDP figures, that's average annual income per person.. For example, most of Western countries have GDP over $30,000. But, the distribution of the wealth confirms this? Definitely not.. Even worse wealth distribution in Western countries with such high GDPs. You said it yourself, in countries like Germany, France where GDP is over $30,000, outside the city's some centers are not different than Poland, as you said in your last sentence. This means wealth distribution in high GDP countries is worse.

Define remote. The people who want (and buy) cars in Poland largely fall into two groups

1. those living in cities where public transport is good

2. those employed (often upwardly mobile) who choose to live away from cities while having work there (that is, they purposefully move to areas with bad public transport)

Those who truly live in the sticks aren't hankering for cars especially (and the expense of buying and maintaining a car will eat up too much of the household budget).

Those in rural areas who have to commute into the city centre. They have to focus on their property which is often costly.

I seriously doubt that. Here in Warsaw for 10 PLN you buy at the moment for example one kg of strawberries. (not in Bomi but in a local kiosk).

The only thing available for 2 PLN would be onions.


I do not agree with this. Take my city Warsaw.
In the city, yes I fully agree with you. I hardly use my car here except for the weekly shopping on Saturday.
But try to get to any of the big logistic centers out of the city without a car. No way you can do that in an acceptable time by public transport. In Belgium people as a rule accept 1 - 1,5 hour to get to work as doable.

Try to get to ProLogis in Teresin or Błonie for example in that time :)
Fuel prices in Poland are basically the same as in Belgium - not relative but in reality. Income-wise however it is a huge difference.
Also the prices of clothes are the same. Step into Zara or H&M in Warsaw...or in Antwerp. Again little or no difference. Of course you could say "why you have to shop there". But we do not buy our clothes in "Tani Armani" stores...

Precisely, sobieski. That necessitates, for all practical intents and purposes, that certain people will need to have access to a car. It's just that simple, certainly in this neck of the woods.

What is a logistic center? It sounds like you're talking about work, where some people do need cars but that's different from commuting to and from work.

No. I am talking about people having to go to work where it takes ages to get without a car. Logistic centers means towns like Błonie, Mszczonów, Grodzisk Mazowiecki...where a lot of companies are located. Try to get to work there without a car. To the train station into town, yes. And then ? That means about everywhere around the city off the beaten tracks. (and I guess this is the same for the big five all over). You assume that everybody is able to get to work by public transport in no time. This is not the case.

I get by on my Karta Miejska just fine. But a lot of people have no choice other than using a car.

Then we're no longer talking about poor people in any real sense.

in wroclaw some companies have their own buses to ship workers in.

if these companies paid more then...

What are you talking about ? Anyone who can't afford to purchase a second hand car for 8-10.000 PLN and spend 300-400 PLN monthly on fuel is poor by any civilized standards.

lol, half rotten food maybe, you should suggest going to the fields picking mushrooms.

I'm not sure anymore. The original question was about poor people, but ime it's hard to call someone with a job and car poor in Poland.

Again, there are many more people in Poland who have the subjective experience of feeling poor than actually are poor (by local standards at least). Ths is to be expected in what is fundamentally a pessimistic culture.

Well, be sure. If a couple are living on the breadline because they have to run a car and pay a mortgage or one of those extortionate rents. Then normal life standards, like having a child (even one) become an impossibility, holidays forget about it. This is poverty!!!. I know people who have good jobs and because of inflation etc, they live as poor people by european standards.

You don't live here, so what are you talking about?

It seems very strange that plastic Poles, not living in Poland, seem to know more about prices in Polish greengrocers than the people living here. Tell you what though - I'll take some pictures tomorrow of the prices.


Poor is not having adequate shelter over your head, not having running water, not having clothes and not having food.

If you have all those things, you're not poor by any civilised standards.


Good for the environment, and should be encouraged.


Prices in Warsaw are way out of whack - strawberries are down to 7kg a kilo now in Poznan.

I had a look today in Wroclaw, and you can pick up quite a few things for 1-2zl a kilo - and that's in Biskupin!


Combine that with the very odd Polish expectation that EVERYONE should have foreign holidays, a car, a nice flat, etc - and you get this overwhelming perception that people are poor. Sorry, but they're not.

Still, nice to know that there are so many champagne socialists on this forum.

of all cars bought last year in Poland 90 per cent were second hand - in some areas people are jobless because they can't afford travelling to work - and believe me there are places that public transportation is not reliable in terms of commuting to work and it's getting worse and worse

truskawki can be expensive this year - it is because of may frosts in Wielkopolska and Kujawy (that also destroyed orchards) - but here where I live strawberries are just fine - even the snow fall on may the 3rd haven't harmed their blossom significantly

Maybe in Africa..

I'm with you.


The same people have PCs, good TV sets, gaming consoles, mobile phones, home-theaters etc. A used car costs same as a good PC. No-having a car because of "poverty" is no excuse.

Last weekend I could hardly park my car by the Technical University campus, all parking space occupied. All those "poor students"... And those were the "external" students, coming to the session. Regular students bring even more cars on work-days and park them far away.

I spoke with a young man, he also believed Poland was poor. I asked him questions what he and his family owned, how they life was. This 19-yo, a son of a truck driver, plays American Fender Stratocaster (U.S. made, not Mexico or Korea!). Then he says "good new cars are only driven by company Board members, very rich people". Wherever I look I see large new 4x4 expensive cars. I didn't know we had so many Board members in Poland.

The "poverty" propaganda poisons so many people, starting from the youth... Who of course cannot afford a brand new Jeep, foreigh holidays, large house etc... but play American Fender, while many U.S. grown-up musicians settle with Squier, the Chinese brand of Fender...

and no children

You mean the father -- the truck driver -- his son playing American Fender Stratocaster?

"Well, man, I'm doing myself quite fine...
But see all that poverty around!
Donald Tusk to get all BLAME"

?? What the hell? Yeah, I'm US born. university all that and I'm playing a Mexican Telecaster. :-\

You people are doing fine apparently.

What is a life like when you have to work 10 hours per day, every second Sunday and can't even afford holidays? You have to buy clayish bread, eat day by day the same products because you can't afford for any change, let alone eating out. The only entertaiment you have is watching tv. You have to watch out and worry a lot if you won't find yourself some day in debts because you barely manage to pay all the bills. It's not a life, it's vegetation.

Poland is not a 3rd world country - the basic needs of most are satisfied, but certainly is a poor country - still the secondary needs of many are not satisfied.

Of course that being poor in a poor country means that no one feel frustration if the basic needs are satisfied and everyone lives on the same level as you. But if you live in rich country but you're not so rich as other then it's painful because you can see how convenient life can be.

you must be joking - if most of the households claim to have a PC it does not mean all have the latest things - you can have a decent PC for as low as 500 PLN - those who buy cars for 4000 zl don't buy home-theatres - ever heard of second hand mobile phones - ever heard of second hand domestic appliances

btw you still need to have money to buy fuel for your car to be able to commute - if you need to travel more than 100 km a day it may set you back more than 30 PLN - consider that you start with a minimum wage? - you earn what - 1300 PLN per month - a whopping 70 PLN per work day

I do wonder where it's going to go - I don't think we'll see 4zl/kg again, but even 6zl/kg would be nice.

Problems with apples will be far worse though - part of my 'basket for 10zl' would include a lot of apples.


Indeed, you just need to spend half an hour sitting outside Media Markt to see the vast amount of new televisions and so on that are getting bought. And what's even more interesting is that many of these things are bought in cash. I've always said that while the official statistics show Poland to be quite poor, the black market is huge - one estimate recently suggests that as much as 25% of GDP might go unrecorded in Poland!

No-one thinks twice here about paying cash and not getting a receipt. Where's all that money going? It's not being recorded officially, that's for sure.

we have so many crooks simply - ever seen a teacher riding a new SUV???

That's the point, Pete. Poles really want to have everything the finest over 5 years, they cannot get it, so the "poverty propaganda" easily gets into the minds of young people. "Żyć ponad stan" (Living above what you can afford), "Zastaw się, a postaw się" (Pawn your belongings and make a great party to show your high status) have already been in Poland in the 17th-18th century.

Over last weekends, I'm giving a series of workshops to Wrocław university students, training them in use of specialized technical software, their future tool. The University financing for the course was too low, so each of those 40 young people paid PLN100 from their own pocket to make the budget up. Meaning, each of those 40 students preferred learning over 40 beers for each. And this is so positive!

Gumishu you are talking on a school teacher driving a SUV. Do you think is is normal for a school teacher to drive a SUV? Look goddam around, go to any bigger city -- it is crammed with new 4x4 -- do you believe Poland is only crooks? Then we are missing resources to be stolen by so many.

That's pretty much the reality of many people in the West, too. It's nothing unique for Poland - I'd actually say that it's far worse in places like London and Paris.

But what gets me is that many of the people who are crying about being poor often aren't - anyone who can take a holiday by the Polish seaside isn't poor, for instance.

It's the same nonsense that led one idiot in the UK to proclaim that "not having the latest games console and jacket is poverty".


The amount of corruption within academia is absolutely staggering - even on the level of simply giving private lessons and not declaring the income at all. I know at least three teachers who have built houses (despite, on paper, not earning that much) for instance - all of them have never declared a thing. There's also a huge amount of teachers who retired early and then went straight into private teaching - heck, in Poznan, you can command 50zl an hour!

there are sorts of apples that have been mostly discontinued in the west but are very popular in Poland - like for example Lobo - if something hits Polish apple orchards we need to import apples from say Sued Tirol - and these are not the best apples I can think of - last year cold weather in May (almost throughout) meant not only lower yields but also apples simply did not rippen properly before they were picked up (the first time I have ever seen such thing)

btw I haven't seen proper apples in English supermarkets and not really anything worth mentioning in street markets actually - must be Polish and English differ in the notions of what a proper apple is

With money earned in the west!!