Multiculturalism is not only about race or religion as you guys always imply. Each nation has a different culture - sometimes a lot different to others, sometimes not so much. What's wrong with that? Do you want to isolate each and every country from each other like in the good old feudalism days? Being constantly at war because they hate their neighbors' guts? That's what you want? Because that's what you will get once Bannon, Trump, Putin and all the other ultra right wingers have had their way with you.
Now have some self control and get back on topic. (doubtful)
The moment you'll manage to stay on topic yourself (doubtful), you are entitled to lecture others. Until then ... eff off.
Ok lets dissect the b/s arguments you just advanced.
1. I don't keep up on Virginia politics. However, Chris Christie can hardly be considered a real conservative, he has some hints of being Republican, but if you know NJ politics, a real conservative will never be elected in New Jersey. Nothing changed in NJ under Christie, property taxes remain some of the highest in the nation, and NJ continues to imprison their own citizens for forgetting to empty 1 round from a magazine with a 3 year minimum mandatory. Chris Christie signed medical marijuana into law for christs sake! But he's a conservative? (I think all drugs should be decriminalized for the record, I'm a Ron Paul Republican).
2. Um, actually, I emphatically said throughout all of my previous posts that multiculturalism is NOT about race or religion, as the frigging NAME implies! Please dispense with the logical fallacies, America's multicultural efforts were ORGANIC, and they formed what is today a uniquely American culture (worthy of respect I might add, I don't find it socially acceptable to denigrate American culture, while proclaiming I need to celebrate the greatness of the religion of peace).
I think we've made it clear we are against the project of FORCED multiculturalism (the opposite of organic). While America did have mass migration in the past, it worked out because the cultures who came here were either culturally similar or compatible, or they were for instance, Asian immigrant groups who yearned for cultural assimilation. That stands in stark contrast to North African and Middle Eastern migrants that not only are opposed to integration and assimilation, but then DEMAND the host nation adapt to THEM! (Holiday tree instead of Christmas tree, if you come to America knowing we celebrate Christmas, you can **** off if you think we're going to change our language to accommodate your delicate sensibilities.) The aforementioned migrant groups were culturally compatible, the present migrant groups have proven through their deeds and their words, that they are culturally incompatible with our western civilization and western LIBERAL values. I care about LGBQT rights, and I care about womens rights, and I want them to achieve EQUITY, and these migrant groups think that death is the acceptable punishment for being homosexual, and that womens testimony in court is worth 1/2 of a mans. For this reason alone, the LGBQT community in Germany is flocking to the far-right AfD in droves! That is the lefts fault, and no one elses. They are not IslamoPHOBES, because that word means the 'irrational fear' of something, and their fears are NOT irrational, and for you to diminish their voice and opinion because you want to white-knight for 7th century barbarians is utterly offensive and affront to the liberal values you people espouse.
We say nothing of Japan, Korea, Samoa, India, Saudi, or DR Congo to have cultural homogeneity, but we think it is ok to demand that the cultural fabric of America and Europe be changed to accommodate unskilled military-aged male migrants. This is rank hypocrisy, its offensive, and you can keep burying your head in the sand of the impending political crisis that will be further exacerbated but unabated migration, or you can decide to LISTEN to the constituencies and STOP talking down to them and telling them they're bigots for wanting to have a homeland with their own culture. You have at least SOME argument to insist that America take large migrant groups because of our history, and you can at least claim some measure of guilt against Britain, France, and Spain who had empires; but you have absolutely no leg to stand on to insist that Eastern European countries who didn't participate in colonialism take these people. France is the ancestral homeland for FRENCH people, a people of relative homogeneity, and what I see from the arguments put forth thus far, is that we have no problem for India to keep their ancestral homeland relatively homogenized, but Europeans don't have that right (and since leftists are so fixated on the social construct of race, one might venture to say that the white devil can't have an ancestral homeland, but others can).
We have to hear terms from you people like "White fragility," as you dismiss the idea that white people can ever be persecuted, and advance false narratives not based in reality (and in Webster's, no less) that white people can't experience racism because they are the power structure, which is literally NOT the textbook definition of racism in Webster's, as it makes NO mention of power structures. That you continue to advance these false narratives, and DISMISS the concerns of 'white' people, you will continue to push them into the arms of the right, because when they say they feel they are under attack, its probably because.................THEY ARE UNDER ATTACK. That is not hysteria, that is pretty much born out in the evidence if we analyze the things said by left wing politicians, news organizations, and editorial and opinion pieces. White privilege, white guilt, white fragility. Yes, you will most certainly gain allies when you tell people that their accomplishments really are not the product of hard work, they only gained their success because of the color of their skin.
Multiculturalism is not only about race or religion as you guys always imply.
Time and time again, it has been shown that discrimination, be it on belief or sex or physical appearance, is a naturally inborn trait of humans.
You can not get rid of eons of hard wiring like that. It simply does not happen without ripping out the hardware and going apesh!t with it.
Besides, the problem with multiculturalism isn't racial mixing per-se, which is impossible to physically impose anyway (and notice how the majority always decides to stick to its own kind), unless you want to go all North Korean about it. The problem is that the ideology wants to abolish the very idea of identify (whether cultural or racial) at the very root. Multiculturalism is evil because it seeks to reshape human nature itself into something that is contrary to itself. This is similar to the case of homosexuality, where it is not the toleration of homosexual individuals that is the point, but the "normalization" of homosexuality itself.
Recent history has shown that, unfortunately, a majority of dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalist Muslims often steadfastly out-and-out refuse to integrate into the society in which they are living, be it linguistically, socially, or culturally!
I compare the recent arrivals into Germany from Syria among other Muslim countries, with the Jews who lived for centuries in Europe, above all, Germany, who integrated with a vengeance, to such a degree that many even bought themselves Christmas trees with which to impress their gentile neigbors, fought nobly in battle, frequently earning an Iron Cross, became German scholars of Goethe, Schiller as well as philosophers and poets ( Moses Mendelssohn, Albert Bielschowsky, Ludwig Boerne, Heinrich Heine, Rainer Maria Rilke, though through his mother etc..) in the German tongue and did their nation proud, in most cases, identifying themselves as Germans first, Europeans second, Jews third:-)
No one would have a problem with the current wave if they did this. However, the people marching down the signs with "Sharia For England," really turn a lot of people off. I mean for me it's a red line, when I hear it, I'm not even going to engage in debate, at that point the only answer is to use violence against them.
@TheOther
I meant to add a post script. If you are such a big proponent of the warm fuzzy multiculti stuff, AND you hate guns, why didn't you just stay in Australia? We have a way of doing things here in our country, and it is not the place of a foreigner to come in and tell us how we ought to do things. I would NEVER seek to gain citizenship in another country, and then start dictating to those people what their laws ought to be. I don't care if you pay taxes, or even if you're a naturalized citizen, you're not an American, you do not have a right to an opinion on our domestic matters, **** off.
Germans ain't too tickled either about forbidding pork around Oktoberfest because Muslims traditionally don't eat pig! German Jews were indeed pork eaters, if for no other reason than they were grateful for being in their adopted country and treated her like their own homeland:-)
Don't forget either, plenty of German and Austrian Jews openly rejected Herzl's call for a Jewish state in Palestine as arrogant, high-handed nonsense. Had Hitler not arisen as he and his party had, they probably would've been right!!
You are doing precisely that SigSauer - you intend to live and work in Poland and already from your vantage point in the Middle East you are advising us on immigration and education and European values.
Yea, not at all CMS. While I pointed out the push back and rise of right as a result of radical left policies in Europe, I am not trying to dictate what those policies should be. The Polish position is very very clear on this issue, I merely happen to be in agreement with it. If emigrate to Poland, I do so knowing what their position is, and not trying to change it, but emigrating there BECAUSE of their policy. That is in stark contrast to emigrating to a place I know has a gun culture, and then campaigning against it at every opportunity and telling the host nation how stupid they are for their culture. Can't see the distinction?
What Eruropean nation has radical left policies ? Name some. The only conceivable example is The brief Syriza govt taking some understandable steps to get up of Greeces mess. Otherwise there are no radical left governments in Europe.
What Eruropean nation has radical left policies ? Name some.
The Western European left is strongly anti-nationalist. They actually care more about that than about economic issues. The modern left here has very little to do with the old workers' movements. Feminism, LGBT activism, Defending Islam, Anti-Nationalism, Black Lives Matter - those are their issues. They don't give a hell about the plight of the local working class. It's a thoroughly (upper-)middle class scene.
You don't see the distinction between agreeing with a country's position, and wanting to emigrate to that country because of said position? Versus not agreeing with a country's position, emigrating there, and then condescending to the populace of that host nation about why they are wrong for their positions and campaigning to change it (2nd amendment)? One is respectful, and one is not.
If you can't see the distinction, it's not because there isn't one, it's because your social justice ideology is overriding rational thought and discourse.
You're right, Sweden isn't in Europe, it is in Africa or in Middle East.
There's a distinction, our problems are because of neo-liberalism, globalism and general lunacy but not radical left wing. Sweden stopped being radical left towards end of 80's beginning of 90's. That's when a true non-governmental TV-channel was allowed and the last push of socialism going on communism was the so called "löntagarfonder" (a scheme where the company would pay in of it's profit to give shares to workers where eventually the workers would be the owners) was abandoned after massive protests.
We are generally Socialdemocratic (not to be confused with hardcore socialism) and totally bonkers. But not radical left in it's true sense.
you hate guns, We have a way of doing things here in our country, and it is not the place of a foreigner to come in and tell us how we ought to do things
Exactly, I can't stand when foreigners tell us how to run our country. If you don't like it here go back home, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Germans ain't too tickled either about forbidding pork around Oktoberfest because Muslims traditionally don't eat pig!
The Germans are letting their culture be destroyed thru PCness and the rest of Europe (except Poland) is blindly following.
Its seems like the Germans and Brits don't have any backbone whatsoever and will let anyone walk all over them.
No. I can still not see the distinction - I must be too dumb,
I am still waiting for examples of radical left government actions in the EU. A murky soup of Breitbartisms and a condemnation of their actions that are governed by the UN convention on refugees does not count.
Mind you I can think of one radical left action - taxing banks half their profits and giving the cash to fund 500+
Backbone? In the fearsome wake of WWII, a war which Germany instigated, make no mistake, is it hardly surprising therefore that folks like Merkel are bending over backwards to try to make amends for the past, even though such attempts are ludicrous in themselves??
I can't stand when foreigners tell us how to run our country.
Especially when they insist that we disarm ourselves from guns to protect ourselves with. TheOther who migrated to the U.S.A. comes here as a guest and then wants to disarm America like where he came from once he gets here. Seriously ?
I am still waiting for examples
In the U.S.A. where Muslims are cab drivers for example. U.S. citizens have been denied getting into a cab driven by a Muzzi simply because he has unopened alcohol in a bag or a pork roast in his shopping bag.
Why should Americans be forced to follow a culture from another country by a guest from said country. Poland sees this and understands very well what it is all about which is to take over another countries culture to spread Islam. I cant imagine what would happen in Poland if a Muslim cabbi told a Polish native that he could not ride in a public cab because he had beer in his bag or a piece of Polish sausage in his/her shopping bag. OH MY !
To avoid such b.s. 80% of Poland has said NO to Muslim immigration. Is that a simple enough explaination for you cms ?
Apropos "their own culture", the Jews contributed more than their share to that "Kultur" from which they were later mercilessly excluded. Merkel's simply attempting to apologize for the past to show that not all Germans are or were monsters!
I suppose if you want to parse words and definitions about what constitutes the radical left be my guest. We are referring to the proven failure of forced multiculturalism, policing speech to appease minority groups, and a generally disregard and neglect for the interests of the German citizenry. I find that argument funny, you guys like to mention UN mandates when it suits you, but when it interferes with your SJW goals, suddenly UN conventions mean sod all. Watching the British expats on here squirm trying to reconcile their left wing neo-liberalism nonsense with the conservative policies and attitudes of Poland is amusing, but bordering on the pathetic and absurd. Yes, I want to emigrate to Poland precisely because of their stance on these issues, I agree with them, I don't seek to change them or come into Poland with my holier than thou attitude believing I need to show the silly little Polish people my virtue and teach them the error of their ways for wanting to preserve the culture that they fought so hard for, enduring destruction and years of pillage and oppression at the hands of their western and eastern neighbors. How utterly offensive that must be, and then to have limousine liberals like Merkel and the rest of the MEPs in EU parliament who have never held a proper job in their life, who roam around with armed security details and live in gated communities, extol the virtues of 'tolerance' and living amongst barbarians that they themselves will never have to experience.
Multiculturalism is not only about race or religion as you guys always imply
Sure, originally it meant many cultures in one country. If we take meaning of a culture as the ideas, customs and social norms of a particular society it still doesn't make much sense. I mean it is not right to force a culture of a country to adjust to a cultural ideas or norms of a immigrant.
Meaning it is bad enough that Americans are trying to destroy fundaments of what made the country great but it is even worse if people from a 'different culture' immigrate to do country and join in in undermining American Constitution.
Don't you think it is a bad idea?
I don't need to know my neighbor to love or like him/her. In fact sometimes if I don't know them that much is the only thing that stop me from hating them.
Neither it is good idea if they would move into my house. You're not a thinker are you? Nor you are very familiar with many cultures, I mean up front not as a passer by in some hotels.
Putin, Bannon? You live in an ivory tower aren't you?
, I can't stand when foreigners tell us how to run our country
If he is a US citizen than he can. Although I would find it morally repugnant if he would stand for anti-American values with the gun-grabbing, first amendment ignoring crowd.
