I'm quite certain that my Polish pronunciation was clear
vulkan is right, polish people would have to need to say 'vot' or 'vy' as they have the w sound clearly in their language.
I think Wlodz is trying to convince us that Poles speak English like they're characters from 'Allo 'Allo. Wouldn't be so bad, but he's also professing to speaking Polish so perfectly :D :D
Hate to disappoint you, but Wlodz isn't "trying to convince us" of either! Not only did I never ONCE profess to speaking Polish perfectly, but I already stated that I've always been pleased to practice my Polish with native speakers in as far as they also desired to (seriously!!!) practice their English with yours truly. When it ceases being the proverbial "two-way" street, they and I soon part company.
Kindly don't paraphrase or second guess what you supposedly understood that I meant:-)
the majority WANT to say that they "speak" English, but only a minority in my experience actually do:-)
Their English was poor to often plain incomprehensible
I had to say at one point that I honestly couldn't understand their English, and could they PLEASE speak in Polish
I talk English language with you. Why you like so much Polish?" etc..
I actually that many Poles can speak English quite well. At a guess I'd say that I've spent more time in Poland than you and have met and spoken to more Poles than you.
However, if you honestly believe that very few Poles can actually speak English then that's your opinion. Have you even asked yourself why Poles tried to communicate with you in English and refused to speak in Polish? Maybe it was because they couldn't understand your Polish... ;)
As to the latter observation, Poles could understand my Polish, as could Spaniards understand my Spanish and German speakers my German. Each of the latter invariably had the sense to respond in their respective languages, rather than English. The simple truth is that the Poles whom we met flat out refused to do so, owing to, what I call, "the Homer Simpson effect"; Americans are SUPPOSED to be ignorant of foreign languages, therefore, they are! And so, once again, (mis-)perception becomes reality:-)
Admittedly too, your experiences with English-speaking Poles has been more positive than mine. To that, I can only add, more power to you!
Americans are SUPPOSED to be ignorant of foreign languages, therefore, they are!
What do you mean by "supposed"? How many Americans have you personally met that can speak a foreign language fluently? And how many Europeans have you met that meet the same criteria?
owing to, what I call, "the Homer Simpson effect"; Americans are SUPPOSED to be ignorant of foreign languages
Have you ever thought that "the Homer Simpson effect" is the insecurity that you have in your own head? It's rather you thinking that people see Americans as a stupid ones.
Once more, it's all a matter of expectation. The majority of my fellow citizens (myself the exception, of course!) are indeed woefully ignorant of foreign languages, much less their own. This doesn't however mean that because some random Dutchman, German, Austrian, Pole, whoever, can manage a "F****k you, man!" as though they were born in the San Fernando Valley or some other colloquially Inappropriate vulgarism, that they know the English language on even a comfortably "communicative" level (unless one is communicating with ignoramuses).
By the same token, does my knowing how to pronounce, e.g. "Dupa!" etc.. in perfect Polish, necessarily make me a "fluent" Polish speaker????
There's a much greater chance that someone between 10 and 30 speaks English than anyone older. Older ones might know a few words. These are not hard and fast rules, but what seems to be generally the case. That said, I met a fluent Polish lady who told me she was 78. She spoke with an accent but with what seemed like ease while at the same time assuring me she'd not spoken any significant English for decades, I think she said 30 or so years had passed since she'd last used English much.
That said, I met a fluent Polish lady who told me she was 78.
A neighbour of mine who had around 20 years on her spoke almost unaccented English. Her husband had been a diplomat. Now and again I'm surprised to find that people I've known for several years (usually middle-aged or older) can speak English - they just hadn't spoken it to me, perhaps because they didn't feel confident, perhaps because they didn't feel the need to.
English is the second language of Poland, just as Polish is now the second language of the UK. In a very different sense but still interesting.
English is the second language of Poland, just as Polish is now the second language of the UK. In a very different sense but still interesting.
At times it seems like that, and then every now and again I come across youngsters or under 35s who barely know a word, even here in the big, bad city (with it's awful roads getting awfuller by the way as more and more people move here and drive like total berks).
I do envy you somewhat, it sounds like anyone can just come up to you and speak Polish suddenly and you can understand and converse. I can't imagine gaining that ability in a million years, and writing Polish is even more difficult. Yesterday it took me several hours for the penny to drop that an elderly woman had been asking me not to close a door, based on my fuzzy knowledge of the word for closed. I do envy people who can learn languages with ease. And this chap who speaks 9
In my experience the majority who say they do are kidding themselves. I am interested to know what the teaching methods are and what tests there are? A few people i have met under the age of 25 have passed their English exam but are terrible at speaking. Now the best speakers are those who have lived and worked in an English speaking country and mixed with native English speakers. I met a woman who worked as a cleaner/maid in the US and speaks perfectly with myself. On the other side there is a family member who is meant to be educated (in engineering i believe) who worked in the US for many years and all he learnt was the word "Howdy" (Hello). Maybe its down to the individual?
Merged: Poles better EFL speakers than Germans and Austrians?
Poles are reportedly in the top 10 of the world's most proficient EFL speakers. It's obvious that the Nordic countries are front-runners but for Poland to exceed Germany and Austria is a bit hard to believe. Any EFL teachers out there who could comment?
These stats are based, it seems, on EF's own internal exams. UCLES stats would give a more objective picture. It's also unclear. Do they really mean 'speakers' or learners of English? I've taught students from more than thirty countries, and some of the best were from countries not on that list. I have to say that Russians are, in my experience, the best students in terms of hard work, and the Dutch take the palm overall. The Poles are somewhere in the middle, which is a respectable placing given the problems Slavic group speakers face in terms of orthography, pronunciation, article use, etc. (Don't ask me about the Japanese)
I maintain as in previous posts that while it may well be "common" in Poland for people to speak English, as elsewhere in the EU today, the quality is rarely (if EVER) uniform!
True, everyone must learn English, but it is patently false to assert that everyone speaks it well to adequately:-)
Actually i believe that the percentage of Poles aged below 35 speaking English is already quite high and is consistently rising. In my humble opinion it is currently higher than for example the one in Germany.
True, everyone must learn English, but it is patently false to assert that everyone speaks it well to adequately:-)
but Lyzko it doesnt matter, it is for international communication not critiquing Shakespeare...:) Perhaps we should divide it into TWO languages, real English, and BiznisInglish?
Nocy I think the age u mention could be raised to at least 40.
Perhaps we should divide it into TWO languages, real English, and BiznisInglish?
At least three would be my preference
American, English, International
There's no way for a language to simultaneously be a vehicle of national identity and a culture free lingua franca (it will do one of the jobs very poorly).
well why get into a discussion about it then? Damn I thought you might even have something interesting to say for a change. Never mind. IME most Polish people are more interested in learning proper English than "American"...:)
IME most Polish people are more interested in learning proper English than "American"...:)
I'm a walking proof of that statement. Since i'm self-taught i had more contact with the US version of English when was still living in Poland. Music i've been listening to, movies i've been watching and video games i've been playing were all american. Now i try to avoid americaniZed(sic!) English as hard as i can. Most Poles dislike Murica so they most likely prefer British-English. IMHO US-English is a product of the american mindset. They forcefully mutilated English and created this "monster" of theirs just for the sake of it being different. I hate those "Z"'s.
Again people, we're leaping from one extreme to the other! Critiquing Shakespeare is something entirely different from having to downshift to near baby talk with a foreign-born interlocutor, simply because everyday words above a fifth-grade level such as "siblings", "advantageous", fair to middling" etc. prove too challenging for the other person:-)
I've grown bloody sick and tired of having to kowtow to globish garbage!
Now i try to avoid americaniZed(sic!) English as hard as i can
If you're living in the UK that seems appropriate.
I've grown bloody sick and tired of having to kowtow to globish garbage!
I don't mind adjusting my communication when necessary, I do mind when people think that words or expressions like "they are discriminated" "I need some advices" or "mobbing" are correct and are convinced they know everything there is to know about English.
IME most Polish people are more interested in learning proper English than "American"...:)
Absolutely not true. I've been teaching English in a private language school in Gdansk for eight and a half years and during this time I have had only three students tell me that they prefer British English to American English. The others tell me that American English is easier to understand because of the difference in pronunciation between the two. That makes sense, as they watch American movies and TV series and listen to American music.
A few years ago we had a new teacher from Dover whose accent was so strong that even I had a hard time understanding her. Her students couldn't understand her at all. I was her mentor. During the first few days of working together, she told me that I didn't speak English, only American, and that the only true English was British.That's just wrong. What good does it do to speak "real" English when nobody can understand you?
I've been teaching English in a private language school in Gdansk for eight and a half years and during this time I have had only three students tell me that they prefer British English to American English
American has more pop culture cachet but British is regarded as being more "proper" or "correct" (Poles love the idea of "correct" language more than any English speakers do).
Most Poles also don't realize that most British singers sing in American (a few like Oasis or the Proclaimers don't).
Most Poles also don't realize that most British singers sing in American (a few like Oasis or the Proclaimers don't).
You might find this very interesting if you like that sort of thing - atlasobscura.com/articles/i-made-a-linguistics-professor-listen-to-a-blink-182-song-and-analyze-the-accent
I'd say most British people also don't realise it - it's why bands like Biffy Clyro are so distinctive because they keep the Scottish accent.
