I don't know how it works at uni but there is cheating in private language schools. I could ask my student friend, Kasia, who is studying Medicine. She's a smart cookie but says the going is tough.
Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?!
zetigrek
2 Aug 2010 / #92
I've just read a post from one of IAMTruth's links and its a load of rubbish.
forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-306918.html
The girl obviously don't know the difference between Matura and entrance exams. Just started without any point to natter about matura amnesty (someone should tell that girl that no one with the "amnesty" wouldn't be accepted to medical uni as they have high exam demands and additionally those with amnesty didn't have their matura certificate until september so they were late to apply any good uni faculty...)
She also started to say something about "bribing professors"... how it is I never heard about it? When I was trying to do for Academy of Fine Arts I also heard that the only way to be accepted there is to be real genius or have parents who are also artist and knows the professors... it turn out to be a great myth! I have lots of friends who were accepted and its ok. No bribing or nepotism.
NY Times? This is about american not polish medical unis. What's your point because I'm lost? You wanna prove that students cheats everywhere? Oh, that would be a great relief to me to know that not only poland is such a moral desert...
from:
It seems its not about cheating in Poland but cheating in general in Med Unis as world-wide phenomenom. You thought that no one will read the links you posted?
Where is said that's because of cheating? Its a case about Tanivaneese students who studied in Poland not about polish students. As I said foregners have different programme which my cousin at 1st year laughed out as a high school level. Second thing is that there is little practice in Poland. Its even a problem with corpes to excercise with the surgery.
from:
Wow I'm young and never heard of such gadget... and the news is 5 years old! :|
who's amir?
To sum up: I have never denied that there is great problem of cheating in Poland, but:
- not in the matura exam, its too risky and too oficial to cheat
- there is no such thing as bribing the professors. Never heard about it outside this forum and it seems it just a thing that foreigner thinks suits Polish corruption very well. I know lots of professors and I know that they would be deeply ofended if someone would propose a bribe and they would call the police with no question. Really. Porfessors in poland are too proud bastards ;)
forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-306918.html
The girl obviously don't know the difference between Matura and entrance exams. Just started without any point to natter about matura amnesty (someone should tell that girl that no one with the "amnesty" wouldn't be accepted to medical uni as they have high exam demands and additionally those with amnesty didn't have their matura certificate until september so they were late to apply any good uni faculty...)
She also started to say something about "bribing professors"... how it is I never heard about it? When I was trying to do for Academy of Fine Arts I also heard that the only way to be accepted there is to be real genius or have parents who are also artist and knows the professors... it turn out to be a great myth! I have lots of friends who were accepted and its ok. No bribing or nepotism.
Furthermore, I found this website (cheating on the board exams)
NY Times? This is about american not polish medical unis. What's your point because I'm lost? You wanna prove that students cheats everywhere? Oh, that would be a great relief to me to know that not only poland is such a moral desert...
Dr.Warner adamantly states, "reporting of inaccurate information
on record forms is something that affects us all."
on record forms is something that affects us all."
The Hindustan times printed an interesting article in
2008 entitled, "License to kill: Cheating to serve the nation."
2008 entitled, "License to kill: Cheating to serve the nation."
from:
I was reading page 19, and found an interesting student article
concerning cheating at a school where it says almost every student
there cheats:
concerning cheating at a school where it says almost every student
there cheats:
It seems its not about cheating in Poland but cheating in general in Med Unis as world-wide phenomenom. You thought that no one will read the links you posted?
PUMS was even questioned by the Taiwanese government.
Where is said that's because of cheating? Its a case about Tanivaneese students who studied in Poland not about polish students. As I said foregners have different programme which my cousin at 1st year laughed out as a high school level. Second thing is that there is little practice in Poland. Its even a problem with corpes to excercise with the surgery.
The heavyweight UK Economist (Oct 4) magazine reports that thousands of pens that write with invisible ink, and have a small ultra-violet light at the end with which the ink can be read - are flying off the shelves of stationary stores in Poland.
from:
Cheating in Poland:
Wow I'm young and never heard of such gadget... and the news is 5 years old! :|
Thus, I thought it would be funny if you made a video where Amir
who's amir?
To sum up: I have never denied that there is great problem of cheating in Poland, but:
- not in the matura exam, its too risky and too oficial to cheat
- there is no such thing as bribing the professors. Never heard about it outside this forum and it seems it just a thing that foreigner thinks suits Polish corruption very well. I know lots of professors and I know that they would be deeply ofended if someone would propose a bribe and they would call the police with no question. Really. Porfessors in poland are too proud bastards ;)
I blame the ludicrously exam-driven system over here
zetigrek
2 Aug 2010 / #94
I don't know how it works at uni but there is cheating in private language schools.
You know why is that? Ppl want to cheat themselves. They try to protect themselves from underperformace. Its for their psychic convenience. Although they know they have cheated their inner ego feels better that they didn't get 0 points... Its somethin unconscious
Yep, that's funny as they should know that the test are just for them ;)
"The article also points out that the word for cheating in Poland – sciaganie – suggests ingenuity, not dishonesty. “Only when Poles find a pejorative term will this dubious habit loose its moral immunity,” "
well actually I find this statement pretty true. Ściąganie in polish doesn't mean oszustwo like in english. Kids don't think they cheat someone that its something unfair. They consider it as something innocent.
The same idea works in Scotland, zeti. It's all a game til you get to uni level anyway. I personally prefer to challenge myself in a test but I can see why some would want to take the easier route.
zetigrek
2 Aug 2010 / #96
One more word to IAMTruth.
this woman [Maria Siemionow] is also Poznan Medical Academy graduatee... so maybe you don't study in such shyte place as you consider it to be?
this woman [Maria Siemionow] is also Poznan Medical Academy graduatee... so maybe you don't study in such shyte place as you consider it to be?
there is no such thing as bribing the professors.
one doesn't bribe the professors. one just has extra (expensive) lessons with them.
that's how it used to be.
No, the cheating is my observation. I've seen it with my eyes. I attended a Polish school ...
Why oh why is cheating accepted in schools??
That is a very good question !
Why?
because that teaches Poles how to obey the rules in the adult life....lol
zetigrek
3 Aug 2010 / #101
No, the cheating is my observation. I've seen it with my eyes. I attended a Polish school ...
"No" for what?
Apparently, the problem has been addressed. The school has taken strict measures in order to improve itself.
king polkakamon - | 542
3 Aug 2010 / #103
one just has extra (expensive) lessons with them.
They did it in Romania too.I wouldn't have a problem with this situation bribing,cheating etc if all these students stayed in eastern Block.The problem is that by EU law they get their degrees recognized in all EU countries including mine.We talk about dozens of thousands of people who have gotten their degrees this way.In my opinion it is not a social problem as they like to present it.It is a problem of sh1tting.I feel that these offsprings sh1t on the students who really worked hard passed exams and had capabilities.
The natural punishment for the bribers,oilers,cheaters whatever is to default.When I was recently asked ''what do you suggest us to do?'' I replied ''cut off your neck.I will not suggest anything for your save.You did the sh1t you have to eat it now.''
The school has taken strict measures in order to improve itself.
what are they going to do?
change of mentality would help for sure... good luck with that though...
zetigrek
3 Aug 2010 / #105
The problem is that by EU law they get their degrees recognized in all EU countries including mine.
and what is your country?
I guarantee you that those IT specialist and medicine doctors who are the only graduatees who can look for job in EU (and outside) in their profession are well qualified specialists. Others with diploma or without can only clean your toilets... Don't be naive. No one wants any Pole for better things
king polkakamon - | 542
3 Aug 2010 / #106
It is inside problem.For example a medicine professor has a son who is a ''brick'' as we call the idiots here and he has no possiblity of passing the national exams for entering the university(which are highly competitive only 5% pass).Since his son cannot get any grades to enter some school in UK or Germany he decides to send him to eastern Europe.(usually Romania).There he bribes the professors and gets his degree on time.He gets back and takes his father's position.
I don't want to see the sh1tter and I don't recognize the sh1tter.His problem is not a social problem.In my opinion we have to sink all of them.( we talk about thousands,dozens of thousands who got degrees this way and economic crisis has a lot to do with their incompetence.I refuse to help them or make them advance in any way because I am superior Balkan.They will eat sh1t.)
I don't want to see the sh1tter and I don't recognize the sh1tter.His problem is not a social problem.In my opinion we have to sink all of them.( we talk about thousands,dozens of thousands who got degrees this way and economic crisis has a lot to do with their incompetence.I refuse to help them or make them advance in any way because I am superior Balkan.They will eat sh1t.)
zetigrek
3 Aug 2010 / #107
As I said before I heard that foreigners in Poland have really easy studies. The unis are underfunded so they needs foreigners to pay a fees so they have extra money.
I really doubt in bribing the professors. I agree with Worclaw that its popular to take private lesson with academic teachers but ONLY when preparing on such faculties like: architecture (the candidates needs to go through special test of technical drawing, creativeness, etc.), and fine arts faculties. But its not a bribe, because its little likehood that a professor help you to pass exams. It just helps you that you know in what direction study, what do they like and what things are take into consideration. I know ppl who went preparing courses by profesors (architecture) and they didn't pass the exams, so it doesn't guarantee you anything. Giving private courses by academic teachers maybe is not ethical but its not bribing...
Who you are?
I really doubt in bribing the professors. I agree with Worclaw that its popular to take private lesson with academic teachers but ONLY when preparing on such faculties like: architecture (the candidates needs to go through special test of technical drawing, creativeness, etc.), and fine arts faculties. But its not a bribe, because its little likehood that a professor help you to pass exams. It just helps you that you know in what direction study, what do they like and what things are take into consideration. I know ppl who went preparing courses by profesors (architecture) and they didn't pass the exams, so it doesn't guarantee you anything. Giving private courses by academic teachers maybe is not ethical but its not bribing...
I refuse to help them or make them advance in any way because I am superior Balkan
Who you are?
Creating your own "ściąga" or "bryk" (I do not know the English equivalents) is a great way to learn before an exam. I mean, you must put all necessary data on tiny pieces of paper. How not to remember it after that. I always created "ściągi" and never needed them, but knowing that this data it in my right sleeve, and that piece of info in the left sock was helping to cool down my mind before a serious exam... ;-) You are telling me that only Poles do such a little nasty things? Really?
zetigrek
3 Aug 2010 / #109
Creating your own "ściąga" or "bryk" (I do not know the English equivalents) is a great way to learn before an exam.
I also heard that... from my teacher! I think its pretty ironic. Please stop justifing it. If you want to make some nnotes, make notes not ściągi...
don't you think that's pathetic for an adult man to wear snips of paper in a sleeve?
You are telling me that only Poles do such a little nasty things? Really?
Not really but they don't justifing it... and are ashamed at least ;)
So your teacher did know what she was talking about. Holier than thou, arn't we?
You are telling me that only Poles do such a little nasty things? Really?
Americans don't cheat on exams/tests... in general, i said....
zetigrek
3 Aug 2010 / #112
Holier than thou, arn't we?
my teacher didn't mean me... I was the loser who made homework for everyone in the class
in general, i said....
as we have already ascertained, NYTimes says something different...
NYTimes says something different...
hmmm... i should read a thread before posting... anyway nobody was cheating at my school, college, uni... Texans are some honest folks... ;D
zetigrek
3 Aug 2010 / #114
SO YOU ARE NOT POLISH?! Wow...
Z-Y (Day by day I discover more secrets about PF members...)
Z-Y (Day by day I discover more secrets about PF members...)
SO YOU ARE NOT POLISH?! Wow...
to confuse you more, i am Polish :D
(Day by day I discover more secrets about PF members...)
we all do....
It's alright here cause, even if a Medical mistake is made, we will all have each other's backs. We cover up for each other. However, that is the way of the Medical community in general.
I don't think that cheating is accepted. It is just that the STUDENTS, not the teachers have mastered the art... things work differently in Poland. However, that doesn't make them completely ignorant of the material...
I don't think that cheating is accepted. It is just that the STUDENTS, not the teachers have mastered the art... things work differently in Poland. However, that doesn't make them completely ignorant of the material...
zetigrek
4 Aug 2010 / #117
Cheating around the world: customwritten.com
(Germany)
(Mexico)
(Argentina)
(USA)
(Peru)
(USA)
(Italy)
Who would thought... ;D
Does anybody know this museum?
(???)
(Canada)
(Philippines)
(USA)
In our school (German high school), it's common to cheat.
(Germany)
So, in order to get what they want, I regret to say, a lot of people in Mexico cheat.
(Mexico)
Here is very common to cheat. All my classmates do that, but I don't. I'm a good student.
(Argentina)
In high school we were experts at it. Now, in college, I condemn it. I'd rather get an F than cheat.
(USA)
Yes, I did it a couple of times when I was in school, and tried once when I was at the university but I got caught shame on me!!!!
(Peru)
I try not to cheat at school, but sometimes you can't help it, like when someone accidentally says an answer aloud. One of my friends actually has a brilliant method of cheating. He writes the answers on his ankle, and covers it up with his sock, during the test he occasionally pulls down his sock and presto, there are the answers.
(USA)
In Italy many people do... it is really common.
In the last years of high school it changes..or so happened for my class.
The reason was that, as many of you said, it is just a bad thing for the student..
But, in my opinion, sometimes it can be acceptable.. some maths rules you can't remember for example...
In the last years of high school it changes..or so happened for my class.
The reason was that, as many of you said, it is just a bad thing for the student..
But, in my opinion, sometimes it can be acceptable.. some maths rules you can't remember for example...
(Italy)
I remember that a couple of years ago, a museum was opened in Spain (el museo de la chuleta, if I remember well), a museum dedicated to all kind of inventions created by pupills in order to cheat.
Anyone heard of it ?
Anyone heard of it ?
Who would thought... ;D
Does anybody know this museum?
yes, cheating is very common here especially among enginering students. when i was in college, before the exams, i use a pencil to write the mathematical formulas that we are using on the cover of my scientific calculator. i just can't can't memorize all those formulas. i guess my brain is not meant for memorizing... ask me to do mathematical computations (especially logical computations, the 1's and 0's w/ the and, or , nor, xor, etc)all day but not to read a book or memorize..
(???)
Now that I'm in university, I'm shocked to find out that many people still cheat on assignments, if not tests.
(Canada)
I did, on my minor subjects so that I could concentrate on my major subjects. (For the record: I didn't have any intentions to cheat at all, its just that, my classmates were so generous that they would even share their answers ) (Am I cheating? Or I am just showing an acceptance of their offer)
(Philippines)
Speaking of cheating, it seems as though we have mainly been speaking about students' cheating. But, here, in the US, there is talk of teachers cheating as well.
With the enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, (NCLB), many researchers and educators are stating that one unanticipated problem that came along with the Act is the "stretching" or cheating of teachers and admins in public schools. With standardized testing being a direct measure of whether the school will receive funding, or not, teachers and educators are finding (unfair) ways to keep their test scores high.
With the enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, (NCLB), many researchers and educators are stating that one unanticipated problem that came along with the Act is the "stretching" or cheating of teachers and admins in public schools. With standardized testing being a direct measure of whether the school will receive funding, or not, teachers and educators are finding (unfair) ways to keep their test scores high.
(USA)
Wow, some deflection again, that's sth new ;) ;) ;)
Cheating at schools in Poland will go on unless the authorities clamp down on it. It is a concern as it gives people a false sense of what they can do. In the end, you are only cheating yourself.
Cheating at schools in Poland will go on unless the authorities clamp down on it. It is a concern as it gives people a false sense of what they can do. In the end, you are only cheating yourself.
zetigrek
4 Aug 2010 / #119
Cheating at schools in Poland will go on unless the authorities clamp down on it. It is a concern as it gives people a false sense of what they can do. In the end, you are only cheating yourself.
Agree.
I posted these samples as it has pretty suprised me because I always thought that's really rare too cheat in other countries and everyone are really seriouse about it. Reading this thread I've just linked, I feel that I was pretty wrong and naive... the problem exists everywhere.
Wow, some deflection again, that's sth new
what does word "deflection" mean? You use it very often while my dictionary says its "ugięcie"... I don't get any sense...
You've answered the second part in the first, zeti :) :)