US citizen looking to live in Poland for 6+ months like a long-term tourist

So I have a complete different document as you have. That is a mystery to me.
Mine looks like the first two pages of a passport, with a photo, and the text which I mentioned before, on the front page and repeated inside.

It mentions and PESEL, and adress, everything. It has and holograms and watermarks, and is valid for 10 years, automatically renewable.
How is it possible that two EU citizens (I presume that you have just as me "meldunek na stałe") have been issued completely different documents?

And my car is registered here just as any other car. The registration does not expire or something. That is a second mystery for me.

Because, as the OP will no doubt discover for himself if he comes out here, Polish red tape is so baffling that sometimes even the people who are charged with administering it aren't sure what to do and so people in identical situations are forced to follow different solutions.


In theory it should expire. Mine certainly does (I've just today renewed it for the third time). So do those of the cars owned by other foreign friends of mine. However, a couple of other foreign friends (who both live in places just outside Warsaw and so do not use Warsaw car registration office) don't have expiry dates in their registration documents.

No, they're not the same - what you've got is a document confirming your right to permanent residence, whereas Harry has the one that is literally something like "confirmation of residence as an EU citizen" - which isn't the same as the right to permanent stay :) As I understand it, the permanent stay document (that you have) expires every 10 years, but the status of permanent residency cannot be revoked - which is why your car registration documents don't expire.

I think.

Ah, that could be the explanation. As I wrote before, I hardly know anybody who has the document I have, which maybe explains why people think it is a photocopy.

On the other side, in my local ZUS office (an institution not known for its creativity) they never made a problem of it.

At the Foreigners' office they told me the same as you do. I have permanent residence status, only the document itself expires after 10 years and will be automatically renewed.

If it lasts that long, that is :)

Highly unlikely ;)

I really don't know why they can't just issue a card and get it over and done with - other EU countries such as Estonia offer cards, so why not Poland?

Nope: I know two foreigners here (one EU, one not) who both have permanent residency and are both married but both have car registrations which do expire. However, an English friend who lives just outside Warsaw most definitely does not have permanent residency and does have car registrations with no expiry date.


Got to love how a document confirming permanent status expires after ten years. Nicely thought through by somebody.


There is something to be said for everybody just constantly applying for new cards until the idiots that decided on such stupidly sized flimsy things decide to issue sensible cards instead.

The document expires, but not the permanent residency behind it, Harry. Same as my Belgian ID-card is valid for 10 years (of course that is because our government can earn money on the renewal).

And no, I double-checked my car registration and it does not mention an expiry date.
Still bewildering, all this.

@Harry


Are you sure? I have encountered several websites that say that the 1991 bilateral agreement between the US and Poland still works and the foreigners' office and US embassy in Poland has said that Americans may do 'border runs' to reset their 90 day limits.

expatcenter.blogspot.com/2013/05/staying-in-poland-without-visa-visa.html

Please see the latest post at https://polishforums.com/law/visa-stamp-overstay-american-wife-43149/

The note says visas are not required for "stays of less than 90 days" and so is still correct. However, does that mean unlimited stays of up to 90 days or only up to 90 days in a 180-day period as required under the Schengen agreement? How lucky are you feeling? If the border guard decides you don't get a visa, you don't get one.

Also, on that 90 day visa you can't work, you can't register a car (well, you can, but you need to re-register it every 90 days and good luck with insurance), get a post-pay phone, get internet or TV, sign gas or electricity contracts. And you can't leave Poland either.

@Harry

But the website of the Polish embassy in Washington DC also says:
"IMPORTANT FOR THE US CITIZENS: Based on an exchange of diplomatic notes between Poland and the USA, since April 15th, 1991 the US citizens are allowed to enter Poland for any 90 days period without visa. The common rule 90 days of stay in 180-day period does not apply in this case."

It doesn't say "any one 90 day period" or "any 90 day period after being out of Poland for 90+ days".

So it seems that one can reset their 90 days an unlimited number of times, according to the law. In reality the border guard may know nothing about this diplomatic note and not let you into the country, but they would be going against that Poland's own embassy has written on their website.

Actually I recently registered a car here, with insurance from PZU, without any issue. They just needed my passport and the document showing registration of my address.

Hmm, people who have less work to do when fewer Americans apply for visas say what? The exact wording of the note says "It is the understanding of the DoS that on April 15, 1991 the govt of Poland will no longer require visas from nationals of the USA who wish to visit Poland for 90 days or less," Do you really want to tell a border guard that you've been visiting Poland for a few years?


Check the registration document for the car: it will only be valid for as long as your registration of address is valid, meaning you will have to re-register it when your registration of address expires, which will be less than three months from now unless you have a valid visa (and pay again when you re-register it). Expiry of registration of address = Expiry of registration of vehicle. And no valid registration of vehicle = no insurance.

@Harry


Why not? There's nothing illegal about it.


I will do so. Perhaps you are right about this. But soon I will have a temporary residence permit so I guess it doesn't matter.


Actually I bought the insurance before registering the car. PZU didn't have any problem insuring is as an unregistered vehicle and said to simply go back to their office when I need to add the license plate numbers to the policy.

The Polisy embassy does not actually supervize border guards in Poland (who do not have to answer to it). And I've known a (non US) person or two who's been burned by poorly informed Polisy embassy staff.

In other words, welcome to Poland: Different agencies might say different things but what matters is what the person you're dealing with face to face says.

It's not that hard to get karta pobytu so why chance it?

There's nothing illegal about it. However, the Straz Graniczna might point out that you're allowed to visit for up to 90 days and as you have spent all but a couple of weeks of the last three years in Poland, you are not visiting Poland, you have been living in Poland on a visa which is only for visiting and as such your application to enter the country to visit for another 90 days has been rejected. You won't be the first American to be denied entry at the border.


I know I'm right: I've done it myself several times.


Excellent business sense from them: the chances of you crashing a vehicle which you can't drive are zero. And if you drive it illegally, you void your insurance so they won't need to pay out on any claim anyway. If your car lacks a valid technical inspection or a valid registration, you are driving it illegally.

I stand to be corrected for sure however my understand is yes, for a one time deal per year.
You are only allowed six months per calendar year to spend in Poland on a visitors visa total.
So in essence a one day trip to say Germany and back would reset it for 90 more days but once you reached 180 days it would be time to say do widzenia for 180 days before you could return again.

Please correct me if I am wrong Harry.

@johnny reb


Why only once per year? I don't recall ever reading that anywhere.

Because you only get 180 days total per year on visitor visa's.
So if you already have a 90 day one and it is about to run out you leave and go to Germany on the 89th day, spend one day in Germany, come back to Poland then they will give you another 90 day one which totals 180 days for that year.

Then you will have to leave Poland, wait six months to get your next visa.
That was my understanding before the EU so I don't know how it works now.
In my post I said that I stand to be corrected.
Every country is different and Poland is a stickler.
Take Jamaica for example.
If you are married to a Jamaican you can go there and stay as long as you want.
If you live in Jamaica at least 180 days in each of three consecutive years you can apply for citizenship quite easily.
Poland it seems still has that Communist mentality of pink paper, blue papers, paper papers and stamp this and stamp that bureaucracy so everyone gets a slice of the pie in the government at your expense.

Anything worth while is not cheap or easy.
Do it right the first time.

Check out Schengen regulations online, what the Polish or US embassies say about an agreement from 1991 is meaningless. In terms of entry Schengen guidelines matter.

This is what I found on a quick take.

For stays in the Schengen Area as a whole which exceed 90 days, a third-country national will need to hold either a long-stay visa for a period no longer than a year, or a residence permit for longer periods. A long-stay visa is a national visa but is issued in accordance with a uniform format. It entitles the holder to enter the Schengen Area and remain in the issuing state for a period longer than 90 days but no more than one year. If a Schengen state wishes to allow the holder of a long-stay visa to remain there for longer than a year, the state must issue him or her with a residence permit.

So being married to a Polish woman might be in your favor to get a residence permit.

@mafketis


According to rooshvforum/thread-31412.html

"the diplomatic note of April 4th 1991 overrides Schengen rules" and "There's no way to "restart" a Schengen visa, except by leaving the entire region for 90 days, then coming back. If you leave for one day or one week, your previous stay is still counted. (This is for countries without bilateral agreements with the USA, of course) FYI, Denmark is similar to Poland in allowing stays beyond 90 days in a 180-day period:"

This source seems to support this statement:
ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/border-crossing/docs/short_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

"The calculator cannot take into account more favourable rules applicable to short-stays of
third-country nationals under bilateral visa waiver agreements between certain Schengen
States and certain third countries as provided by Article 20(2) of the Convention
Implementing the Schengen Agreement (CISA)"

A. You're treat Roosh seriously (how is he doing lately? the last I knew he was kind of miserable and alone...)

B. It does not override Schengen rules (or Schengen rules don't exist).

Do what you want to do (you will anyway). Just don't complain if it all goes south. If you know Polish well enough to argue about rules (without losing your temper) then you might get away with it. Otherwise I'm really skeptical...