Life / The best English newspapers about Poland? [22]

Wow this is great! I'm an American who will be living in Wrocław for a semester and this is exactly what I've been looking for. Looks very good too. :) I will be sure to tell my friends about it as well. Thanks!

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]

I know this thread is old, but I'll just add my experience for the sake of the internet.

I studied Polish vocabulary off and on for a year before coming to Poland. Now, I've been living in Poland for three months.

When I first came here, although I knew a lot of words and could pick one out every once in a while when someone was talking, I still had no idea what they were saying. So, when friends were having conversations in Polish, I would just stand there awkwardly and wonder what was for dinner.

However, now I would say I've progressed a level, where I can listen to my friends talking and work my mind to try and figure out what they are saying. So my mind can grasp enough that it gets an exercise in listening to people talking. Often, I understand complete sentences, and can figure out the gist of what they're saying. However, it's still difficult for me to respond in a coherent manner due to the insane amount of declension required in Polish.

So that's been 1 year of independent study and three months in Poland. It depends on your exposure, though. I've been living with Polish people almost the whole time, not taking classes but studying some on my own, often speaking to them in Polish. I probably could have learned faster if I told them to ONLY speak to me in Polish, but I would rather not go through the initial phase where they're angry with me all the time. ;)


Quite right! While many Polish words are longer than English (a translator once told me that Polish documents tend to be 20% longer), the Polish manner of speaking is still much shorter and more abrupt. I feel like it unfortunately cuts down on the ability to express one's self, though.. When I watch an American movie with my friends and see the Polish subtitles that they're having to deal with, I feel like the translation is quite simplified and, while it communicates the necessary meaning, it seems to strip the sentence of some of its style.

But maybe it's just that the movie got a bad translation, or maybe that's inevitable with any translation in any language?

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]


And what is that?

I think it's abrupt, and I even think Polish people like being abrupt. By that I mean that they try to use as few words as possible, and even enjoy it. I went to load some money on my phone card once, dropping by a Play store, and the man was quite short with me.

(translated into English)
"It doesn't work," he said. I swear I caught a slight smirk on his face as he relished how few words he had just spoken.

"What doesn't work?"
"This," he said, pointing at his computer. "It doesn't work."
"It doesn't work in this store in general, or.. what?"
"Computer! It doesn't work! It's broken."
"Oh.. so.. when will it work?"
"I don't know! Maybe one hour..? Maybe tomorrow..? Maybe few days!"
"O..kay.. well, thank you.."
"Next!"

Sounded pretty abrupt to me. ;)

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]

I didn't think reading speed was factored into providing translations for subtitles..?

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]


I definitely hear that here in Poland a lot. The way I understand it, "Dobra" just means "Okay", like you said. So if someone keeps nagging you to do something you can say, "No dobra!!" ("Well okay!!") But "Dobrze" can mean "Okay" but usually it's positive more positive than dobra, like "Good!"

So, "Będę u ciebie wkrótce" (I'll be at your place soon) to which you can reply "Dobrze!"

Anyone is welcome to correct me on this. Sadly that's the extent of my knowledge on when it's proper to use dobra vs. dobrze..

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]


The point was that he was "honest" to a fault, minimalist to a fault, in that he didn't consider that maybe he was using so few words that it wasn't communicating what he really intended to communicate - I didn't understand what didn't work. Why didn't it work? Did it not work in general at Play stores, meaning that there was some other way that I was required to load money on my account, instead of doing it in person? Did his internet not work, or was the system down, meaning I couldn't go to another Play store and do it there instead?

I know I know, I'm American and therefore have unrealistic expectations of customer service. It's all a bit irrelevant anyway. What is your Polish idea of abrupt, then, if not that?

Life / Handshaking protocols in Poland? [4]

I always wondered this before I came here, so I'll try to provide a lot of information now since I have experience:

Living in Wrocław, it seems to be the same as in America. The exception is that it's more thorough/frequent. Men always shake hands upon meeting and upon departing. If there is a group of people, it's common and polite for a new person who is just arriving to go around and shake everyone's hand. Of course, if you're a man meeting another man, you're both young or at least young at heart, and you're a bit "street-wise", then it's that hand-clasp thing instead of a handshake. I once stood and watched a group of men who were setting up for a concert outside a club greeting each other - it took several minutes for every guy to go around and clasp everyone's hands. Very polite, but in America we don't bother.

As a man, I'm not entirely sure on the proper way to greet women, but I've always given them a handshake upon meeting them for the first time, and then after that when I see them again maybe we will hug each other if we've gotten to know each other a bit. That's been for my closer friends in my church student group. When I meet female classmates though, after the handshake the first time, I don't offer any type of physical contact. This is the same as in America. But maybe I'm just the common factor here.

However, I do have two friends from the mountains southeast of Kraków, a male and a female, and when they greet each other he always gives her a kiss on the cheek. They are very close, almost family.

I was told that I would see men kissing women's hands when meeting in Poland. The only time I've seen it was once with an older man kissing an older lady's hand in Wrocław, but he was doing it in a bit of a silly way so as to flatter her, and she was laughing, so I guess it was more just a joke.

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]

However, there's still the problem that Szczerbaty discussed. For instance, in English we say, "She smells good," (there is a nice smell about her) and it means something completely different from "She smells well" (she has a talent for sniffing things out). How is this dealt with in Polish? Is it prevented from by the possibility that Polish has more specific verbs than "smell"? For instance, two words instead of one, one meaning to give off an odor, and the other meaning to commit the action of trying to smell something. Or is this where the reflexive "się" comes in?

(To be honest I don't know the Polish word for "to smell", so I'm just making up a random example.)

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]


Very interesting. This seems like an important detail, and I wonder why they don't note this distinction between Polish and English when they introduce adverbs in the introductory Polish books that I've read. I think it would avoid a lot of confusion, at least on my part!


When I'm talking about my dog?

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]


But it's not so simple.

"Jak było?" - How was it?
"Było dobrze. Jesteś dobrym pływakiem." - It was good. You're a good swimmer.
"To dobrze, że tak myślisz." - It's good that you think so.

Travel / A traditional Thanksgiving Dinner in Wroclaw? [16]

I was wondering about this too, but figured there was no way I would find a restaurant in Wrocław that had Thanksgiving food, and I'm too poor of a cook to try cooking something I've never cooked before even in its native country. I just ate some rice. :(

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]

I think most Europeans see the "American way" as a manipulation of psychology in order to gain a profit: Americans are insincerely nice, just so they can make money. And I can see why they would despise this.

But as much as I hate dishonesty, I think it did good for me when I worked in customer service. I think it's a good thing to encourage someone to try and help others, and that's what my job did - in order to be good at my job, I had to show that I cared about other people, and the best way to show it was to really feel it. Working with customers in a place where customer service was held as very sacred helped me to learn how to be more helpful to people in general. Sure there are some workers at different establishments who will give you the cheesiest one liners and the biggest fake smiles, and it makes you cringe a bit. But for me, I think I learned a lot from my work experience.

As for the American conversational mannerisms that result from this attitude.. I'm not too aware of them, except for having to say something like "Would you like a cup of tea?" instead of just "Want tea?" I always thought that was a result of British "fancy-pants" formalities, though. Do foreigners really get annoyed at this kind of thing, when someone says it to them? Or is it just about having to learn what exactly to say that frustrates foreigners?

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]

The problem is that this explanation doesn't help someone who isn't familiar with the proper way to ask certain questions yet.. It would only be useful if someone actually asked me such a question. Then I could think, "Oh, they used 'jaki', so I should answer with an adjective."

Work / Wages in Poland - (Average monthly gross wages and salaries) [9]

My friend told me about a job where the gross salary was 5000zł and net was 3000zł. So in this case, 40%. Yikes.

Law / Do I need a work visa before moving to Poland? [29]

My experience of going through the Warsaw airport (nervously) with no visa or permit of any kind: worker at the desk says "Proszę dokumenty", glances at my passport, stamps it, and waves me off, and I'm safe in Poland. That's it.

If you're an American, you can stay up to three (3) months in Poland (in the whole EU Schingen Area actually) with no visa or anything, just as a tourist. So, what you can do is you can come to Poland with no visa or permit or anything, and then apply for a residence permit (at your local urząd wojewódzki - Polish government province office) once you get here. That's what I did.

The important thing is that you have a valid reason for staying, like work or studying. I'm a student at the University of Wrocław, so that's a legitimate reason in the eyes of the government. I don't know what is necessary for your work to qualify you to stay, though. But if your company says they'll see to it that you get the work permit, then I guess you're good.

Just make sure you start on the process before half of your three month period is up (i.e. 45 days in at the latest), but preferably as soon as you can once you get to Poland, because they really take their time about it at the government office. Otherwise, you may get a call 5 days before your 3 months are up, telling you that you have to take a weekend trip to Ukraine and spend the night there, in order to give them more time to process everything. That almost happened to me, and it did happen to another American friend of mine.

(Actually, I think the official rule is that, after your free 3 months have expired, you have to spend 180 days outside of the Schingen area before you can come back in for another 3 months. But if the Polish government is okay with me just spending the night in Ukraine [actually later they even said Germany or the Czech Republic would be okay], then I won't say anything! It seems strange to me that one government can give you an exception for the whole Schingen area though.)

It all sounds kind of scary, and as an American you do have to go through a lot of annoying documentation compared to EU residents, but also as an American you don't really have to worry about anything going too horribly wrong, I don't think.

As for what everyone's saying about money, I don't know what expenses are like in Kraków exactly, but I do know it's pretty expensive. Poland is generally cheap for an American, but when I was walking through the streets of Kraków looking at restaurant prices, I almost felt like I was in a big American city. They may just be taking advantage of tourists in those restaurants, though.

Is your language school providing a place for you to stay? I know TEFL offers an internship starting in February for teaching English, and I think they provide accommodation and a (albeit small) spending allowance. I'm not sure what their education requirements are but maybe you could check it out:

onlinetefl.com/tefl-poland-guide.html?source=IntroducePolandInternship

Anyhow, I think your situation might be doable, but if I were you I would offer private English lessons on the side to supplement your income. So you should probably start learning Polish, if you haven't already, to make that easier for you. Just be determined. It won't be easy, but you can accomplish anything if you put your mind to it. ;)

Work / Wages in Poland - (Average monthly gross wages and salaries) [9]


Correction, I checked the message again and it was 3500zł net, so a 30% reduction, or probably more accurately the number that Monitor provided.

Law / Do I need a work visa before moving to Poland? [29]


That's nice, but this is what my Polish government inspector told me. The technical regulations are a bit different from how the system actually works.. Not unusual in Poland.

And, he didn't necessarily say I would have had another 90 days, just that I needed to do that to "give them more time."

USA, Canada / If you moved from US to Poland, could you please share your experience? [16]

I come from the American South, so it's a pretty big change in that everyone in Wrocław that I've met has been generally knowledgeable about the world around them: cultured, intelligent, open to different kinds of music, art, literature, and such. It's a nice change. Sometimes I meet people that are really interested in America. Sometimes, though, they have a prejudice against some American things - things that are simply customs of ours that they feel they have a right to denounce just because it's American. One of my friends thinks that all American scientists are stupid and he won't believe any kind of scientific study I show him if it's in English. I have no idea why. There seems to be some kind of popular myth about crazy American scientists, who come up with all kinds of snake-oil health remedies and such. It seems like they're confusing American scientific studies with tabloid magazine titles.

Polish people are crazy drivers, but they insist that they're good drivers and Americans are just whimps. When I'm riding with a friend, I'm always thinking things like, "We can barely see here, what if someone was in the road??" Traffic signs aren't as frequent and helpful as they are in the States, so it's not always so obvious what you need to do.

Customer service obviously is no where near what it is in the States, and just the attitude of people is different in general when dealing with strangers. I've found that it's best to always assume that no one wants to have anything to do with me and that I should consequently behave the same way as them. It's a little bit of a relief but also kind of depressing.

Polish hospitality is great of course, but I always feel so restricted in Polish households. I think the etiquette is much tighter here than back home, so I'm always worrying if I've done something wrong. It's apparently customary for a guest to decline things and try to restrain themselves when it comes to eating much. When I've had friends over and shared some food with them they insisted on doing the dishes and were always so polite - it's nice but, you know, we're college students... I would think it would be an atmosphere that's more laid back and informal.

Wrocław is great in that there's always cheap entertainment available, whether it's some special at the cinema, or a play at the theater, or some concert, stand-up routine, club specials, really all kinds of things. You can always find something to do. It's different from when I was living in the city back home and we would just sit around at someone's apartment on a weekend watching movies.

Well, there are some thoughts for you. Hopefully it helps. :P

Study / Help learning polish language in Wroclaw (any good language school)? [26]

Yes, if you're studying within the English program at UWr, you should be able to take part in the Polish courses also. They offer a free (at least for all Erasmus/international students) two week preparatory course in Polish before the semester begins, and you also have the option to take a class during the semester as well. You can even take an assessment test at the beginning of the semester to determine what your level of Polish is. This consists of a recording being played and answering some questions on paper. I didn't take the semester course, but the preparatory course was quite easy, no exam or anything, just a participation grade I think.

Law / Residence Permit vs Visa Free Schengen Dynamic for Americans [5]

How did you come to know this, though? Where can I find explicit proof that this is the case?

This is really what I'm hoping, because it would make everything so much easier. But when I ask them about this at the government offices (for example, the Polish embassy in Washington DC, or at some Urząd Wojewódzki here), it seems like they don't really know what to tell me, or they just get confused by my question.

In fact, they told me that I needed to enter a different country for a day, have a receipt or some proof that I was there, and then reenter Poland and I could renew my 90 day stay in Poland. At the Polish embassy in Washington they said it would have to be Russia or Ukraine, in other words exiting the Schengen zone, but in the wojewódzki office here they said it could be Germany or the Czech Republic.

But with my understanding of the Schengen regulations, this doesn't seem like it would be necessary.. EXCEPT for the fact that I might need some kind of proof of my legality. I know at the American base in Germany they check your passport and if the stamp of your entry into the Schengen zone is older than 3 months, they'll request a residence card or something. I don't know if it would be enough just to get another stamp, say from entering from Ukraine, or what.. or if that would even be feasible for me to do, given the current state of affairs in Ukraine.. or if they do understand the Schengen renewal period and I just didn't ask..

USA, Canada / Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement between USA and Poland [47]


Oh, duh - I guess because you can then get to travel around the Schengen area, with the residence permit.


That's a good idea. I'll ask them about that the next time I go into the office. I would be quite angry if I were your friend!

In my situation, personally, I have a residence permit, and when it expires I'll be due for another 90 days of visa free travel in the Schengen zone. I've just been wondering about how all of the above mentioned stuff works, though.

USA, Canada / Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement between USA and Poland [47]

I understand your sentiment, but I would prefer that Obama just followed through with his promise to Poland.

USA, Canada / Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement between USA and Poland [47]


It mentions the threat of diplomats needing to acquire a visa when making trips to Poland. I suppose that applies to citizens also?

USA, Canada / Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement between USA and Poland [47]

It was on the Roosh V forum?! Hahaha that's rich. The only legitimate documentation we could find that would allow Americans to back up their border hopping in Poland is based on a man's motivation to screw as many Polish women as possible (Google Roosh V and you'll see what I mean..)

Thanks a lot for the links though, that's exactly what I was hoping we could find. But you're right, it's best not to go this route. If people who are doing this are still, occasionally, getting deported, I imagine it's because some customs officers are treating this bilateral agreement as obsolete. Even if someone is justified to stay in Poland, there are no longer any border guards between Schengen countries, therefore the exception can't be enforced/protected when they're only allowed to stay in Poland. A customs officer for the country of Poland also acts as customs for the Schengen area, since it's a Schengen border, and therefore I think it's possible he'll send you home.

I went to the local voivodeship office and tried to tell them this, but they kept insisting on the border hopping thing. I referenced Schengen law to them. (actually here I was talking to them more about my own residence permit situation) I even pulled out a stack of documents that I printed straight from the EU's website detailing the Schengen laws, and all they said was, "We don't know anything about Schengen regulations, we just do what we're told."

Wow.
And Poland has been in the Schengen zone for six years now? Someone needs to get with the program.