Language / Polish regional accents? [141]

Merged: Accents in Poland -- regional and class differences?

Do Polish people speak with different accents if they come from different classes, even if they're from the same place?

For example, if two people were from Warsaw, and one of them was working class and the other was middle class, would their accents be different?

In England, working class people talk with a regional accent (so if they're form Manchester, they have a "Manchester accent", if they're from London, they have a "London", or "cockney", accent). Middle class people, however, usually just have a "standard accent", called "Received pronunciation", no matter where they're from in the country. They could live in Newcastle in the north or London in the south and have the same "posh" accent.

This is generalising a bit – some middle-class people do have a regional accent; but mostly (especially those who are upper-middle class), middle class people don't have a regional accent.

Is the same true in Poland, or is it that if two people came from Warsaw, they would have the same accent regardless of what class they came from?

And if Polish people do have the same accent even if they're of a different class, how do you tell what class people are from? Do you have to use more subtle cues like job, clothing, car, etc.?

Please note I'm talking about accent (how words are pronounced), not dialect (what words are said)!!

Thanks very much. :)

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]


Interesting. Was there a difference in classes before the Second World War (and if so, was there any difference in accent between the classes?), or has Poland not had classes for a long time?

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]

Thanks so much for your help, everyone -- especially boletus; that post was really helpful, thank you.
Of course, boletus, I thought it was more than likely that classes existed pre-war; but you do every so often hear of countries that although have class distinctions, do not have the same stigma, accent, and attitude differences that go with with it -- Switzerland is supposedly like that (although that might just be Mary Shelley's hyperbole) -- and after gumishu's response I thought it possible that Poland might be included in that list, but thanks for setting me straight.

Also, naturally, I do appreciate that accent and dialect go hand-in-hand -- but I just wanted to make it clear that my question focussed more on accent than dialect. Differences in dialect are not quite so important to me as accent, so I didn't want them to be the focus of my question.

And finally, teflcat -- I don't know where you're from or what accent you have, but I am English, I am middle class, I do have an RP accent, and I have middle class friends all around the country who have exactly the same RP accent as me, regardless of where they live. So I do know a bit about what I'm saying. :3

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]


Yes, I do (just about – I don't know anyone in Cornwall). I have a friend from Tyneside who has the same RP accent as myself, and the same again as some friends of mine who live in Southampton, and the same again as some friends who live in Manchester. It's not quite as rare as you seem to think; although I believe it is much more common among the upper-middle class like myself than the "new" middle class – those that have raised through the ranks thanks to education.

To be honest, teflcat, I seriously doubt you're middle class at all, based on your crude original response ("Square root of fkuc all" – very nice). I'm especially surprised to hear something so base and childish from someone of your age. And just while we're on the subject of language, we English say "cotton buds", not "Q-tips". Not that I need them anyway, as I actually take a great interest in accents and can usually guess where an accent is from on listening to it only once. I think that rather than being an issue of hearing, this is one of social attitudes – I just have a higher threshold of what I consider middle-class.

Pam – I agree with your post. I do think a lot of it comes down to schooling; at private schools you're( supposedly) encouraged to speak a certain way, and more to the point, you listen to people with that accent, so that's the one you pick up (I wouldn't know, having not been to one myself).

However, of course, a middle-class Glaswegian wouldn't be expected to have no trace of an accent; but I was talking about English accents in my original post. Britain as a whole would naturally have different rules – and anyway, it would be a crime for a Glaswegian not to have an accent, as it is after all one of the nicest in Britain, imo!

But yes, things have changed. My views on accent are a little old fashioned, and I did simplify my point for the sake of example; and as you say,


– although for myself, if someone had a mostly RP accent with only a hint here and there of a regional accent, I'd consider that RP enough to be called "standard".

Anyway. Thanks again to everyone who answered my actual questions – you've helped me immensely and I'm incredibly grateful.

As for the rest, I'm astounded that was what essentially a straightforward question has deteriorated not even into a pleasant debate, but a pointless and off-topic argument about accents. Jon and Pam, I don't mind your responses, because you disagreed, but you were polite about it; but to reply to someone's post, and not in any way respond to their original question, but simply nit-pick in an ill-natured, surly manner, is incredibly rude. But I suppose you always get one, don't you? That's the internet for you.

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]


Takes one to know one. You're obviously one of those reverse-snobbery types, who take pride in looking down on others of a different class.


Well, what a good job we have you, self-appointed Protector of the English Language! What a shame you didn't at least see fit to even attempt to answer my question in your surly reply, but that's no surprise, really – those who can, do. Those who can't, criticise.

And if you'd wanted to "counter my assertion", it was easy to do without being aggressive, as Pam and Jon demonstrated. You might want to try it sometime.


Not sheltered, I just mix with people who have a sense of decorum – and most people your age have. How old am I? Old enough to behave like an adult. You should too.


Take note, I didn't say they were my only friends. I also have lots of other friends, many of whom are working class and/or have regional accents. These were just the only friends relevant to this discussion.


How terribly original. Leave it to a reverse snob to behave badly and then claim the only reason a problem's arisen is because the "nobles" look down on him. You might want to analyse your behaviour next time instead of hiding behind class struggle.

You could easily have disagreed with my post politely, but instead you went out of your way to be rude. Maybe the anonymity of the Internet makes you feel tough, I don't know. I came here with good intentions simply looking to learn, and you started all this.

Then again, this is my fault, really. Never feed the trolls.

jon -- I do agree with you, and I did say that a) I was simplifying, and b) there were exceptions. I just wanted to ask about class and accents in Poland, and I only put in the bit about English accents to demonstrate what I was trying to say. And certainly, in my experience, the middle class people that I know generally don't have regional accents, the working class people I know do. But of course, there are many, many exceptions.

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]

Ziemowit – thank you so much for that; that was really interesting. I notice on your profile page that for city, you've listed Warsaw – is there anything particular you can think of that someone from Warsaw might say that would mark them out as being from Warsaw?

Thanks so much again for your help. :)

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]

boletus, jon357, Ziemowit -- you three are absolute angels. Thank you so much.

Life / Do you have middle names in Poland? [12]

Thank you very much, Jon357, that's what I thought.

Life / Do you have middle names in Poland? [12]

Hello,

I have another question about middle names, if you someone would be kind enough to answer it: If you met someone who had the same first name and surname as you, but a different middle name, would you think of them as having "the same name as you"?

Thank you very much!