History /
Poland Lithuania - current relations [124]
Thank you everybody for your answers.
Only general politics changed - Kaczyński's policy of strong Central Europe vs Tusk's policy of good relationship with Germany and Russia. Loss for Lithuania.
That explains a lot. I've heard of Kaczyński's and Tusk's rivalry. Is this shift of policy and confrontation visible clearly? Were those official views of the two?
- receiving back properties lost by Poles in Lithuania during WW2
This is an interesting problem. I do not know much about it and I could say that it is discussed less than others. The overall impression is that almost no lands are returned (not only to Poles, but to Lithuanians or Jewish people too). Have you had the same problems in Poland? If so how did it go?
On the other hand, they are trying to diminish the Polish influence in/on their country because they fear another Polish cultural colonization. That is why they are refusing to acknowledge the rights of Polish minority etc etc.
A very good point. I think Lithuanians in Poland consist less than 1% of the whole population. However 6% of Lithuania's population are Poles. Vilnius city municipality contains 19.4% Poles and Vilnius district - 62.5% according to 2001 Lithuanian census. Maybe the fear of polish cultural colonization is not present (because the gap between two cultures is not as big as it was), but Lithuanians definitely fear Polish influence.
I have to admit that I don't know the facts - but - are Poles in Lithuania enjoying the same liberties as Lithuanians in Poland (there is a small are north of Suwałki with Lithuanian majority)
I tend to think that Lithuanians in Poland have more liberties. If it is so then it illustrates the whole picture well. There are around 5000 Lithuanians and around 235000 of Poles in Lithuania. So there is "no danger" of giving Lithuanians their liberties, because they would never have even a small influence to Poland. Different with Poles in Lithuania. But the fact that Lithuanians in Poland claim that there are some problems with cultural preservation actually proves that Poland's policy towards Lithuania is not aggressive. Because if Poland would like to have bigger influence on Lithuania it should escalate these problems, favour Lithuanian minority with benefits and showcase it as an example.
That is a massive understatement. Lithuanian complex of Polish colonization is as big as Mount Everest.
Could you expand your thought? Why do you think it is like that?
One of the problems with this discussion is it confuses modern national identities with earlier identities.
Good point. Excuse me if I mixed up everything in my first post. In fact, I would say that imposing modern identities, circumstances or even way of thinking is one of the biggest mistake when disccusing about history. And it misleads the people and the whole discussion. That's why I intend to discuss the matters separately.
Today's Gazeta Wyborcza re-prints an open letter of Lithuanian intellectuals "Litwini do Litwinów"
That is very interesting. I found the Lithuanian version of this letter and it makes me curious why only these people signed it. I there some sort of polish intellectuals position concerning these issues?
tautmyla:
Lietuva lietuviams.
that actually speaks for itself - if you exclaimed Polska dla Polaków in Poland you would be instantly deemed xenophobic nationalist (or worse)
Do you regard this as a victory or a loss? Maybe it is only a matter of ones beliefs, but do you not think that these accusations would be too radical? This is important because currently some Poles are appealing that Lithuania is breaking EU minorities laws. I agree that you need to follow and obey agreements, but you always need to see the whole picture. However that is why in my first post I mentioned that defending minorities laws could be used as a political weapon, but used in such a way to remind laws and justice.
I am not saying it is like that now, I'm only strengthening my main point. Maybe it would be easier to solve minorities problems if countries would neglect the instant deems of someone being xenophobic and promote patriotism, but at the same time raise the respect for minorities. Or do you think that patriotism and well being of minorities are incompatible?
This has unfortunately impeded the Lithuanians and rendered them incapable independent thought.
Maybe not only those things which you mentioned. But there is a huge problem of Lithuanians being incapable of independent thought. It is a serf/bondman syndrome. Are there any signs that Poles have the same problem?
Thinking more about the subject and discussing it with you I feel that a loss of respect of Polish and Lithuanian nations for each other is a harmful thing for both. The current problems could be solved somehow, but in my opinion they are not big enough to seriously damage Poles or Lithuanians lives, but it is big enough to cause moral degradation. Because if some future events would threaten our nations they could not trust each other properly.