Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

I believe the jokes were supported by US establishment after WWII as an excuse for abandoning Poland. Poland was the 4th allied power, after Soviet Union, US and England and before France. But it was France who got the permanent seat on the Security Council. To defend this betrayal it was convenient to tell people that Polish people were 'bad', stupid and everything in between.

Another issue is Poles in Hollywood movies, in 50s very famous movies had Polish elements, like Someone Like It Hot, The Westside Story, On The Waterfront, The Streetcar Named Desire, etc. Then it ended, why?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Absolutely right!
I believe the claims are for the time period after September 1, 1939 (property ownership changes caused by WWII).
Poland was a double victim of this war, first attacked by Germany and Soviet Union in 1939, and left to fight alone despite international
treaties, then again sold out at the end of WWII and given along with Cental Europe to Soviet Union as gift for defeating Germany.
There was no free Polish administration in Poland until 1989. The legal Polish goverment in London was delegalized by Western powers in 1945.
The first Polish administration in 50 years implemented legal procedures for former property owners that work very well.
There will be no summary 'reparations'.
If anybody needs any convincing, please look at Swiss claims.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

You know that you sound really silly claiming there were countries friendly to Jews, only they didn't accept Jews (maybe that's why there were

friendly?) Nice firends you found. I like you very much too, but stay away!

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


OK, you asked ironsite, here it is:

Antisemite: a person disliked by a Jew.

Precise enough for you?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Of course he/she meant extortion (Extortion, also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction is a criminal offence which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion.) Definitely we have it here regarding 'summary' payment requests.

But someone mentioned that this is for individual claims. In such case there is no issue (17 pages of polemics about nothing, isn't it funny), Poland already has laws regarding individual properties. Actually my friend told me about how he got his house back in mid 90s (more than 15 years ago). His family (Polish Catholic) was extremely well of and owned several buildings in pre-war Warsaw. The family left Poland in September '39 and never returned after the war (very smart decision avoiding sure prosecution by (very likely) Mr. Michnik's brother, and after one day trial death penalty...). Anyway my friend explained the laws this way: a property owner can receive the property back, if 1. the building is still standing (no claims to lots), and 2. the building is in government hands (if it was sold to private owner, who purchased it in good faith according to current laws, it's final). Out of all possessions only one building that my friend's family owned in pre-war Warsaw qualified and sure enough it was returned to him after few months court case. Since at that time he lived in the US he sold it to family still living in Poland. Case closed. And as I said it was mid 90's.

So now we are back to 'summary' requests by Jewish organizations. It would help to include some numbers into Swiss situation, which as somebody previously mentioned is very similar. The initial claims were for Jewish money held in Swiss banks illegally after WWII and the amount mentioned was 'in excess of 10 billion dollars.' The Swiss questioned the amount. An independent auditing of bank's books was ordered and the Swiss appropriated 500 million dollars for the audit. Before the results of this audit was even publish the Jewish organizations started attacking the audit as not-fair, wrong, etc despite having a large number of Jews performing the audit (along with some Swiss of course). Hastily a 'summary' agreement was reached to pay Jewish organizations 1.25 billion dollars and the sum was paid. How were the money spent is not a subject of this thread.

The results of the audit? In all Swiss banks 140 million dollars were found that could be traced to Jewish property.
So let's stop this discussion about nothing.

USA, Canada / Polonia who needs help with Polish Documentary [27]

Another provocateur working hard to diminish the image of Poland. Who pays you? Never mind I know.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Let's see. How about this: "England guarantees Polish borders", then "we guarantee borders but we did not say THE Borders.
Poland will have A border, will it not?"

Of course it depends what the meaning of the word "IS" is.

The answer to the thread question:

Poland got a terrible deal in any term, land included, in the postwar settlement. Just few facts:
for 90% of Poles the war ended in Poland in 1989,
just ask any Pole if they would rather have Wroclaw and Szczecin or Lwow and Wilno.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


You are kidding, right?

Otherwise I tend to understand you said that Poland emerged from WWII with enhanced class of inteligentia, enriched materially?

btw, Poland was not as divided as you may have heard. Have you heard the joke about the left and right side of Israeli politics?

It goes like this:
"the Israeli left come form eastern Europe (Poland, Russia, whatever), and the right? They graduated from Polish gimnazjums."

You heard about Betar? There is a movie coming out.


You got me Harry. I cannot quote the article, but I believe it said that "western borders (or borders with Germany) were guaranteed",

do you agree with this? If yes, they still didn't keep the treaty, we did not get to keep borders with Germany.

How ridiculous it would be if we did, but even England could not insist on it however they tried, didn't they?

There must be a reason why 70 years (and counting) the British archives from WWII are sealed in Polish matters.
Do you agree it is related to the terrible deal that Poland got after WWII? I think so.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, August 25, 1939

Article I:
(...) Contracting Parties become engaged in hostilities (...) in consequence of aggression (...), the other Contracting Party will at once give (...) all the support and assistance in its power.

Aricle iV
The methods of applying the undertakings of mutual assistance provided for by the present Agreement are established between the competent naval, military and air authorities of the Contracting Parties.

Article V
Without prejudice (...) to give each other mutual support and assistance immediately on the outbreak of hostilities (...).

Again, you're right, there is nothing about borders, only immediate assistance that was 'established' and not given. I was not able to find the secret ammendment that named Germany. So this is how you want to defend English conscience? Wow! Or maybe you want to defend this part of proud British history:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time

Just open the Archives!!!!!! Or we need to wait 200 years?

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


It is dishonest to sign an agreement that one does not plan to keep. Both Westerplatte and Warsaw (twice 1939 and 1944) had to capitulate because of lack of ammunition, water, food and medicines. Because of English assurances Poland was pushed into war.

And talking about hypothetical situations:

Suppose there was a soccer tournament in Poland and Ukraine, suppose that Germany were playing in Ukraine, where would you think the German team would be headquarted? In Lwow? Kiev? Maybe Krakow if they wanted to be close to tens of thousands of fans that surely were going to follow them?

Guess again.

Invitation to Gdansk: "Hey people come with your team, rediscover your roots".... and stay?

Hans Frank said that thousand years will have to pass for Germany to forget the WWII. Looks like 67 is mighty for some.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Precisely. I believe it was called Drang nach Osten:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drang_nach_Osten

Yes, they did not know where they would be playing, what shame.

Regarding England, if they had no intention of fighting in 1939 they should have done another Munich. But wait they did another Munich, didn't they?

Only it was 6 years later in Potsdam, after Polish people were killed and Poland was ruined. Thanks Brits!

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


I believe US did not have a pact with Poland, but maybe you know better.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]

I hope I repeat facts not communist propaganda, I really hope so.
Anyway I am not anti-British, just realist, I know their hands were tied 1939 and later as well.

But if you want to know what Polish people think about British, here is one story:

it is 1973, June 6, Poland plays England for qualification to World Cup '74 in Germany. The best Polish best player Lubanski scores a goal,
then he gets a ball and looks like he would be again in position to score. Then brutal faul by Roy McFarland and Lubanski's career is finished.

Poland goes on to qualify after memorable Wembley match, then goes to WC and finishes 3-rd without Lubanski. What could have been
if our best player was able to play? The history would be different.
I am not making any comparison to gen. Sikorski. It's just bad luck that accidents happen when England and Poland interests collide.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


I don't know.
I let you compare Warsaw and Prague after WWII and income they generate now from tourism.
Also I'd like to hope that Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski would be able to write more. That's all.

History / Why have Poles contributed so little to Academics? (Particularly Science) [180]


Poles haven't contributed to media ownership, that much is true. Therefore they are nazis, collborators, stupid, scum etc.

Point in case: full face restoration surgery in the US. Huge media event, never mentioned Prof. Maria Siemionow nationality.

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]


Ladykangaroo, you are very dangerous to some people on this forum. And thank you for that.

Few facts about Poland:
in recent years 2 million Poles emmigrated to foreign countries, that is more than 5% of the population,
the birthrate is at 1.26, the lowest in Europe and 206-th in the world.

Can these numbers justify calling the situation in Poland 'peaceful extermination'?

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


you cannot be more wrong, but do continue to push your propaganda

btw I understand why they're cutting teaching history in Poland. If Polish youth learned what happened to their country during
WWII let's just say they would not be friends of England, USA, France, Germany, Russia etc.

The truth is already known (English hiding their archives only support it), the next is apology and reparations!

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


So....current Polish inhabitants of Gdansk would benefit from separating Gdansk from Poland ... great .... and Poland would benefit as well, or it's
irrelevant?
Look, Germany started two world wars. Poland has been devastated in both, especially Warszawa in WWII, first 25% in 39, then 70% in 44.
As result of these wars Germany lost eastern provinces by no decision of Poland that didn't even exist before WWI and was a loser in WWII, despite

having 'right' legal treaties and and hundreds of thousands soldiers fighting 'on the right side'.
Polish people want to live in peace with its neighbors. If Germany takes ownership of nazism and 'Polish concentration and death camps', if they
pay reparations for 50 years of occupation, for physical and human costs (I cannot even start to think about this), if Polish cities of Lwow and Wilno

can somehow become Polish again, then we can talk about anything and I can assure you we want Germans to feel justice. However, since such

probability is nill for the next 100 years, let's forget this subject. Let's just say that Germany losing of Gdansk and Wroclaw was the price for returning

to sanity. They needed help, and this was the price. And lasting benefit is that they see what can/will happen if they lose sanity again.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


ph.news.yahoo/photos/german-chancellor-merkel-interior-mini ster-friedrich-bdv-president-photo-192056854.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich and President of the German Federal Association of Expellees (BdV) Erika Steinbach look at an interactive map as they visit the exhibition "Heimat Weh" (Aching for the Home Country) before the BdV annual congress in Berlin, March 20, 2012. REUTERS

Aching for the home country? A few bumblebrains?

Life / Catholic "Telewizja Trwam" from Poland - your thoughts? [98]


It's about replacing analog with digital TV transmission (done in the US few years ago).
During this switch several digital frequencies will become available for transmission 'over the air', therefore free
of charge. The government wants only 'friendly' stations to be there. TV Trwam would have to be on cable
or satelite for additional fee.

Some of TV Trwam programming:

on raising retirement age to 67 (Polish)
on demographics/low birth rate (Polish)
on Smolensk tragedy investigation (English/Polish)
on winter problems with agriculture (Polish)

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


nor should it be


States? Why then all this talk about political integration, about 'regionization', about national governments being to big to solve small problems, and too small to solve big problems?


Is European influence shrinking? It did after WWII, but now? It may be growing in some regions. Anyway, the common interest. After 50 years of occupation followed by 20 years of 'reformed communist' and foreign corporations' government is it hard to understand that Poles feel nervous about Germany? Not the government but German people? How do they feel about the terrible deal that Poland got after WWII, when Stalin took more than half of the country and shifted her borthers west?

Life / Polish word for 'queue' [18]


Maybe if you told them to 'get in line' instead of 'queue' it would work?

But seriously I don't understand the problem, doesn't everyone have an assigned seat at that time?
If they're rushing on board just let them, then you can board when it's empty. Of course I haven't seen it
but is it really that bad?

Love / help needed to warn off troublesome pole [25]


Please Wulkan do not interrupt the trolling going on here. It is pretty funny. The point is to distinguish who
are the trollers and who are the innocent victims.... Ooops, looks like I am the victim too.

Life / Catholic "Telewizja Trwam" from Poland - your thoughts? [98]


If you bothered to read the KRTV papers you would've known that it is NOT only business. They are supposed to
ensure that different point of views have access. It's called media plurality or something like that. Currently 100% of media
on multiplex is pro goverment...

Also, which one it is? It's "Rydzyk's empire" in which case obviously they have enough money to operate and should be

given licenese unless for politics.... or they are an unfunded poor strugling TV station, in which case they are no threat and
should be given license based on plurality...

Ooops, sorry, I forgot you want to have it both ways. It's just like with your famous tolerance that applies to one side only.

Life / Why are Polish so conservative and religious? [240]


I don't know if fact that only about 150-300 thousand Jews were assimilated in II RP can support your statement
unless you believe in one nation/two languages theory.
Anyway it is an absolute truth that in Polish history we had a number of great Polish Jews, even Mickiewicz in
Pan Tadeusz wrote about Jankiel that "stary zyd Polske kochal".

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


They all wandered away, probaly went to Manchuria.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Answer:

enjoying it after the treaty of St. Petersburg, January 26, 1797, declared

"to abolish everything which could revive the memory of the existence of the Kingdom of Poland, now that the annulment of this body politic has been effected…the high contracting parties are agreed and undertake never to include in their titles…the name or designation of the Kingdom of Poland, which shall remain suppressed as from the present and forever…"

but I am sure he thinks that it was legal, proper and just.

To this day Russians, Germans and Jews believe they have legal rights to properties in Poland, which were confiscated from Polish owners during partitions and uprisings and given or sold for nothing to them. The victors' justice... I guess we have only ourselves to blame.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

No, I do not belong to some ancient group living there... as much as I know :-)
As far as I am concerned you can claim the property of your ancestors, I'd only ask for it to be conditioned
on assigning the same rights to Polish people who lost their property due to partitions and world wars.

Of course then a question would arise, if there were no known survivors would some Polish organization
be allowed to have a claim, or better yet a summary payment for all properties.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

That's a powerful argument, but surely it's not based on 'I say so' standard, right? Can you cite some case law or treaty, or something else

to back up this 'living memory' limit?