News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


Because it's the 21st century now. Most ppl don't care anymore.

Could you explain to me what terror is being endorsed among ppl that don't go to church anymore?

These views don't belong anymore in a modern society. If ppl want to make sth out of their lives, they need to go for it and don't need a church holding them back with views that are not of this time anymore.


Agreed on that part. But now the enemy has gone, what's left? What basis is left? You fought for your right to be free, to be free to do whatever you want to do. And if ppl chose to spend their time shopping or whatever, and not go to church, then so be it.

>^..^<

M-G (silly girl)

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]

You mean this ceremony?I'd say: just freaking do it!

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]


Well, you always will have nutcases. But they are a minority, the vast majority doesn't care about religion or Churches or whatever. They just want to have the latest fashion, get chicks, dudes and all the rest that comes with being young. And imo it's the normal way of being young. If you're 20 and you're instead willing to give your life for a Crucifix, there is sth wrong with you somehow. But that's my opinion.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

Hm, so it's suggested here that Polish jokes were the first jokes ever made about a different group of ppl? Not really, some 400 years ago in NL there were sort of stand-up comedians who told the listeners jokes about Germans. Same content, same tendency. Later on it became Belgians. So jokes about Poles aren't by far the first jokes to be made about different ppl. Unless you're solely talking about the US, then it's the Irish who were the subject of jokes first.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

News / New cross war in Warsaw [530]

@Polonius3:

How old are you, Polonius? 65? 70? You were never young? There currently is an entire new generation growing that simply doesn't care about Churches anymore. Face it, the time when Churches were important is way behind us and even the Churches themselves acknowledge that and try to adjust to this new situation. Everybody does some useless things when he/she is young, but that's why you're young. Trying to impose your old fashioned ideas upon younger generation will only cause you to be ridiculed by the very same generation, who only wants to have fun. Perhaps you didn't have fun when you were young, well, that is not the current generation's fault, and you should never try to forbid them to try and retrieve what's theirs. Some things I do frown upon myself as well, but then again, I was young too and I did some silly stuff too, so who am I to forbid those youngsters to do silly stuff as well? Besides, it seems that the ppl who populate Churches nowadays are on average 70+ in age. Not a very future-minded potential, isn't it?

>^..^<

M-G (live and let live)

Off-Topic / PF - The Omnibus Edition [1502]

I will write the next one, Charlotte. If I ever find inspiration anyway. Anything to relieve you from the burden of having to push your beer belly against the edge of your desk and typing with stretched arms.

Indeed, the 14th, ten days from now, it's hug-a-Pole day to celebrate the good Poles. The evening of the 13th we remember the nasty Poles on the kick-a-Pole event. The third day of this trinity is doorknob-day on the 15th. Mark these dates on your calendar.

>^..^<

M-G (details will follow next week)

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]


Oh, will you give it a rest alright? Geez, what a nonsense. Polish jokes are just the equivalent of Irish, Italian, Belgian, French, Spanish, Turk and German jokes. The jokes are all the same, only the nationalities of the main characters change.

Huh? Americans of Polish descent are not more or less successful than their Irish, Italian, German, Dutch fellow Americans.


Huh?? Nonsense. Total nonsense.


It's fair to say that some Poles feel that need too. This thread is a living proof of that.

>^..^<

M-G (statements getting bolder about such a non-issue)

Food / I am a cider drinker, where to get it in Krakow [40]


Kopparberg is available in different tastes, not only pear. Don't know if it's available in apple, but I do know you have also a blueberry variety and some othe fruits.

>^..^<

M-G (and Bulmers wanted their cut of the success of Kopparbeg in Ireland, so they suddenly release also a pear cider and a blueberry cider - how surprising)

Life / POLISH FLAG DAYS...when are they...? [30]


I said it's generally looked upon like that. I don't mind if ppl want to fly their flag on national hols. I'm from the same generation as you are and as a kid I always liked it when the flags were out on Queensday, which was back then her actual b-day, especially when the weather was nice. Gives this festive atmosphere in the air, if you know what I mean.

In NL the flag also has to be destroyed if it touches the ground, I believe.

>^..^<

M-G (coffee)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


I actually never heard of this being perceived as such apart from Polish ppl, a handful of Russians and some Americans of -indeed- Polish descent.

Edit: in the West, communists were communists and no ethnicity was added to the label as far as I can remember.

>^..^<

M-G (bank holiday!)

@Iron:

You might wanna read this:

sullivan-county.com/news/mine/timeline.htm

...And this:

medievalhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/religious_antisemitism

And there are plenty more. Compare the dissection of Robert Sungenis by William Cork here:

wquercus.com/sungenis/

But then again, there is no discussing when the other party only says that it's all lies. Exactly what I thought would happen. Instead of an open discussion about a dark episode in Polish history the usual suspects come up with the assertion that it's "all lies", despite evidence given that it's not. Furthermore those asserting that it's "all lies" haven't given any conclusive evidence that it is, in fact, "all lies".

>^..^<

M-G (halleluyah)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


This Palikot character doesn't seem like a nice man...

>^..^<

M-G (no)

Life / POLISH FLAG DAYS...when are they...? [30]

The Danes? I don't think so. Wildrover's statement is a bit bold as I don't think he would be labeled a Nazi when he would fly the Union Jack in Britain. However, he would be frowned upon, just like in most of Western Europe as it's regarded sth of the older days. Being overly proud of your country is regarded as scary as it's remembered to what being overly proud of one's country can lead to. And besides, most ppl in Western Europe simply don't like it or don't have a flagpole anyway :)

>^..^<

M-G (does not have a flagpole)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


Why don't you just leave this discussion? You go against any suggested option and simply deny everything. That's ok, but just don't do it here. This thread is intended to discuss the issues at hand, not denying them. You don't give any alternative directions, you just deny. That's all and that's not really a contribution. Everybody knows that the CC wasn't really favouring the Jews, with exceptions do the rule.


Looks like it's not, but what is exactly your contribution to this discussion with this post?


Poles and Jews are so much alike. Because Poles in the US also only want to talk about what happened to Poland and the Poles. At least, the ppl of Polish descent that I've met in the US. But what'd you expect from Americans? They don't know shyte outside their own borders. Have you even seen an American news broadcast? It's ONLY about American issue and at the end they have about 30 secs other news from outside of the US. These ppl are simply uneducated.

>^..^<

M-G (coffee)

Life / POLISH FLAG DAYS...when are they...? [30]

So basically the flag flies every day in the first half of May?

>^..^<

M-G (hurrah!)

News / POLAND LEAVING WHAT COUNTRY FOR A BETTER LIFE?? [73]


But then again, we're a relatively small language anyway. However, sb told me that Wroclaw Uni has a Dutch dept where they teach Dutch and Dutch history and so on. But that could be more out of folklore considerations than anything else. Or that every country has a seat in a University somewhere in Europe.


Tsk!

>^..^<

M-G (doesn't know which Dutch Uni has a Polish dept though - I know UvA has a Russian and Slavic one, so perhaps Polish is grasped into that as well)

News / Poland needs four children per family for sustain survivor and development [46]


Maybe the Ponzi scheme would be a great idea to pump up Serbia's ailing economy?

>^..^<

M-G (heck yeah)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]

But that's what I have been saying all along in this particular conflict (and you can read it back if you like): both parties are wrong. In fact, I say this in most conflicts. And with a few exceptions like the Nazi extermination of the Jews and the Slavic ppl, the Ruandan massacre, both parties are usually wrong in any conflict. I try to be as impartial as I can be and you should know that, that's why I don't understand this critisism.

Edit: there were camps? That's new to me. Tell me about it :)

>^..^<

M-G (raining again in Dublin)

News / Poland needs four children per family for sustain survivor and development [46]

What Crow suggests is going back to the old days when ppl used to have 10 or more kids as a retirement plan. Most kids wouldn't survive past their first year, so the more kids you have, the more chances were that you'd have a few kids to take care of you when you got to old to work yourself.

I don't think this scenario is necessary in modern-day Poland. Think medical improvement, resources and so on.

>^..^<

M-G (heck)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


I actually don't, but according to some it's all the fault of the Jews themselves, so I just try to point out that both parties were wrong. This topic goes about a yet hardly known episode of Polish history and it needs to be discussed. I don't defend Jews, I just give credit where credit is due. Problem with discussions like this is that you never get a full oversight of all the facts and balance them against each other. I don't go for the statement that the Jews are always right, because they aren't and I don't go for the statement that the Poles are always right, because they aren't. I have yet to see a source which is not biased towards one side and this fact could make me mad, but as Aphro said, PL is yet in the process of coming of age as to where it is learning about and learning to accept its history, so I just guess it'll be a matter of time before we all get the full picture. But for now, as long as there are ppl who deny obvious ocurrences I tend to and I will be tending towards providing a counter weight for such statements.

I have looked into the myth that Jews were commies and it's found that some Jews were commie, yes, but also some Poles were commie too. The vast majority however was not. And the reason for this myth is complex, but its roots lie probably in the Catholic Church.

My explanation would be that the CC knew there were Poles and Jews commie, however, they could not get themselves to blame the Poles for this as they were Catholics, so they turned to the Jews, an easy target as they were different and not part of the Catholic group. Combine this with the age-old blood libel nonsense and you have set a perfect prerequisite in a very religious country for a party like ND to come and light the tinderbox. Pilsudski liked the Jews and treated them normal and had dictatorial powers between 1926 and 1935, so this kept it from surfacing. But upon his death there was nothing to withold it. Of course there were no camps or whatsoever, but it was there, there is no denying that it was.


Unlike myself, you have never condemned both parties in this conflict, or at least, I haven't read it yet. Maybe I overlooked sth.

>^..^<

M-G (Saturday morning in misty Dublin North)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]

What are you talking about? Too many Jew-bashers on here and sb has to give some counterweight. Plus, you're not impartial yourself when discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, so pls, don't go that popular road. I have written down the things I read about this period in time that I didn't know about before for all to discuss, what's impartial about that?


No, I am writing down what I read about a period that I didn't know of before. It's up to you guys to discuss and/or to rebuke it.


Yeah, remember Apartheid? That nifty little system that kept the vast black majority down to a near-slave degree in their own country? Well, that lasted about 30-40 years. It has been abandoned for about 20 years, so in 10 to 20 years the laws will be revoked as payback has been reached. And it's a bytch.


And you are calling ME biased? That actually makes me laugh on this Saturday morning.

>^..^<

M-G (hell yeah)

News / POLAND LEAVING WHAT COUNTRY FOR A BETTER LIFE?? [73]

Well, he wants to go to college next year and study psychology, at least that's what I understand. But indeed, if he didn't have any other prospects it would be a good idea to learn sth that is in demand. Although I have to admit that over here I haven't seen that much vacancies for CNC-programmers. But that could be because Ireland doesn't have such a big metal-industry.

>^..^<

M-G (off to bed. Goodnight.)

News / POLAND LEAVING WHAT COUNTRY FOR A BETTER LIFE?? [73]

I don't think his interests lay in the metal-industry.

Anyway, who's leaving what country for a better life? Hm, I am spending my last 12 to 18 months here in Ireland saving as much as I can and then go for a year to the US to stay with my family for a while, travel around a bit, full on sabbatical and after that I go back to NL. Should be good.

>^..^<

M-G (still up)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


It's actually a very good advice you give there, sweetie, and would heed it if they would speak either German, English, Dutch or French, so that I can have a conversation with them. I specifically mentioned Lanzmann's Shoah because it's this very documentary which caused for a great deal the way the West looked (and still looks) upon the Poles with regards to their relationship with the Jews. You're a bit young and Shoah is quite disturbing, so I would recommend you view the DVD series (4 DVD's, but only the first three are relevant imo) from the Simon Wiesenthal collection. It will give you an overview of what happened, albeit slightly biased, but nevertheless it's a good preparation for Shoah.

I'm not saying this to tease you or make fun or sth, but Shoah really can alter your view on things. I don't know if you can understand German, but if you do, I will post an interview Lanzmann had with an SS-guard from Treblinka, especially the part of the pile of corpses that lay behind the gas chambers in the midst of summer that was so excruciating fouling that even the Jewish forced labourers refused to clean it up, saying they'd rather be shot dead than to clean that up. In the end the Nazis had to clean the mess up themselves. It's just an example.


Maybe I do, but maybe it's also a sign of coming of age for Poland (or at least some of its inhabitants) to admit that there were epoches in its history that weren't too bright. And that is what this thread is all about. Like I said before, ask any Dutch, Belgian, Frenchman, Norwegian or British if there was a fascist, anti semite movement in their country before WW2 and they all will admit to that, except the oddball as you have them everywhere. The majority however will readily admit.

>^..^<

M-G (beer time)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


When was the last time you didn't jump on your hind legs when sb said sth unfavourable about Poland, the Poles or Polish history?

Now, let me drink my beer, FCS!

>^..^<

M-G (Karpacki this time)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]

You know, I'm not even gonna respond to that. Maybe you should just get off your high horse. An open mind? That's very funny coming from YOU. You deny just about anything that's not favourable in Polish history.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


Since when is the truth a lie?

As to where it comes to telling lies, you, without doubt claim the #1 position. I didn't have time as I have been pretty busy last few days. Here it is and I am man enough to admit that I confused 1919 with 1939:


cyberroad.com/poland/jews.html

But then again, they must've participated substantially as Pilsudski was very fond of them - at least he forbade any anti semitism and declared Jews to be loyal to the state. And there is nothing that you in your patriottic haze can change about that.

NB: call me a liar one more time ans I will report you - given your bad reputation on here and without doubt are walking the plank as to where is that concerned, you might face a ban in that case. To say you are a despiccable person would be a waste of words. Guess I'll just waste them.


You know, when a child hears that its dad is a criminal, the first thing it will say: "it's all lies! It's all lies! My daddy didn't do that!" Later on, when it grows up, it will realise that daddy was indeed a criminal. I don't expect you to understand this metaphore, but give it a try as I am not going to explain it.

>^..^<

M-G (don't you just know it)

Life / Turnips on my doorstep in a Polish apartment - is it a custom? [17]


It means you're gonna die a horrible death in about 6 weeks from now.

>^..^<

M-G (always glad to help and cheer ppl up)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


I agree with this. Therefore it's important that all aspects of Polish and Polish/Jewish history are being discussed. It helps with coming to terms with the past and I fear that a lot PF members haven't yet.

*Bratwurst is such a grateful person to cook for as we say in NL* :)

>^..^<

M-G (likes to cook)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]

And in order to join a Polish Uni in those days I assume you were required to speak Polish.


Well, I am off today, but I do have a few chores to do and a few errands to run. I have however read about 15 pages of the .pdf you presented me (I will read the rest in due time, it's 128 pages, not sth you read in an hour), but I sure hope that later on in this dissertation, Mark Paul will shed light on the Polish attitude towards Jews as well as for now it's pretty one-sided. BUT he also points out that there were (Jewish) attempts to learn Polish, which is a good thing and comes closer to the truth imo than the statement that 80 per cent of the Jews couldn't and didn't want to speak the Polish language. I also hope that he gives a basis for the statement that Jews despised the Polish state. Did Pilsudski got it all wrong then? And where did this alledged despising come from?

>^..^<

M-G (yeah)

History / Endecja - State Sponsored Anti Semitism 1935 - 1939. [138]


Aw, I'm sorry my friend. I am only one person and I was tired at that moment as it was in the middle of the night and I had been working very long yesterday. You did well, my friend; if it's any consolation to you, there is a pan full of Guinness stew on the furnace, about the best dish Irish cuisine has to offer, if you like you can have a plate (or two) :)


That may very well be, but it's no cause to start violent towards them. I am aware of the fact that Jews didn't speak Polish that much, which is strange as I think you always should learn the language of the country you're living in, be it only for practical purposes. Secondly, I find the statement that "Jews despised Poland and the Poles" a bit strange as it makes no sense: I can reason that they didn't like the Poles as it happens that you meet ppl that you just don't like, but despising Poland? The country they chose to live in? That doesn't make sense. Jews helped Pilsudski in Poland's war of independence (it was not for nothing that Pilsudski was mordicus against anti semitism and put down as only criteria one's loyalty to the state); why would they do that if they despised Poland? That doesn't make any sense at all and I personally don't think it's that hefty either. Sure, there will have been cases of individual Jews disliking Poland, but there were also Poles that didn't like Poland as well. I personally think that's not a factor.

>^..^<

M-G (off)