History / The Celts in Poland. [71]

Very interesting information SeanBM. As you already know, I had the pleasure of a brief visit to the Dublin area of Ireland. Four days and much to explore. I wanted to go to Newgrange, but only made it to Dowth. Here are a few pictures from my trip:

Broken links removed

Wish I could have seen Newgrange, too....but I only stopped in Ireland a few days to visit friends that live in Dublin and were orginally from Gdańsk. Then it was on to Poland.

Well...I've made a mess above. I must have picked the wrong link at photobucket and when I went to edit, took too long as I was denied access. I should probably just post a link to the slide show. :-/

And if this works, you'll see Slane Hill, Dublin, and some shots of Poland, too.

Travel / A Night or Day In GDANSK....how to spend the time?.. [9]

O.K. :-)

If I remember correctly, it is about a 10 minute walk from that area to the bus and train area.

Travel / A Night or Day In GDANSK....how to spend the time?.. [9]

There is a full directory of pubs and clubs, and map links connected with this site. Here's one that sounded good, but then again, I did not go there.

gdansk-life.com/drink/pubs_cafes_details/190-Szksypcze_Rock_Inn_Pub

Travel / A Night or Day In GDANSK....how to spend the time?.. [9]

Have a good trip, Wildrover. When I stayed in Gdańsk, I found the airport like most to be close to the city centre, but not a place where there was much to do.

There are lots of places in Gdańsk to have a good time, and there is public transportation to the airport.

This link is for getting from the city centre to the airport.

zkm.pl/eng/indexht.php?index=14

Life / Should Poles be Polish? [44]

I took the question to be asking if a Pole should be called by the term Polish. Rather than saying someone is a Pole, it is more normal for me to say that someone is Polish.

Is this what you are asking? Or one of the other variety of questions postulated above?

Life / How Safe Are the Polish Cities? [179]

I went by myself to Gdańsk in October and I walked all over the city. Especially the old town. When dusk came, I headed back to where I was staying. Had absolutely no problems. Never felt unsafe.

Law / "FART" shop in Poland - WHAT DOES THIS SHOP SELL? [55]

So.....lucky man = fart man! :-D

Law / "FART" shop in Poland - WHAT DOES THIS SHOP SELL? [55]

hehehe....that was a topic that made my ex Polish bf and I laugh.
It means Lucky. :-)
No idea what they sell, though. Hey, if it's luck, I'll buy!

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

Oh my Prince. Are you saying you wish to have Prussia between Germany and Poland again? LOL

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

I'll settle with that! Two out of three ain't bad. :-)

By allegiance I meant that since the land where he was born, Royal Prussia was inhabited by a majority of Germans, but had recently come under the rulership of the Polish King he was a loyal citizen.

Yet, as you say...he was very involved with Prussian affairs. Fighting the Teutonic Knights, because of taxation.

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

So it seems that the above article about Veleti says that the Wends absorbed the earlier German tribes in the Mecklenburg/Vorpommern area, and then years later, new Germans came in, and absorbed the Wends who were already mixed with some Germanic peoples. I am sure that further east there was a dash or two of ancient Baltic Prus, pagan tribes, who were assimilated with a sprinkle of Danish and Scottish. Ooops. Forgot the Dutch. Well, it seems the mix is still more Saxon than anything.

In all fairness to Prince, however, he has a point. Not so much with Copernicus as with the Mecklenburg/Vorommern area. The Wends broke into lots of groups and at some point, Kashubs were also classified as Wends.

In my genealogical studies, I ran across information written by an ethnic German pre-WWI that the ethnic Germans who moved into the Włocławek area were orignally from Pommern. More recent researchers use the exact same map and call those Germans Pommeranian, but the original researcher said they were Kashubs and because they wished to obscure their partly Slavic background, they favored the term Pommeranian rather than Kashubian. The eastern Kashubs are the same ethnic group but stayed Catholic, and identified with Poland (and still live in Poland). The western Kashubs were expelled because they believed themselves to be German and were Lutheran. But they are identical really. So, it just shows that your idenity is more than genetics, but a matter of culture and who you believe you are.

But, if I am correct, in Copernicus day, the peasants were not aware of identity the way we are today, and the upper classes such as Copernicus and his family viewd the noble classes as who they were. Polish nobles and Prussian nobles, hunted and fished together on their large manors. They had their alligances to each other i.e., Royal Prussia to the Polish King. Yet, it had little to do with what nationalty they were. Just who held the bigger fief above them and who they did fealty to.

So again, it appears Copernicus was Polish in allegiance, but German in culture and of mixed genetics. As in the beginning of the thread. Share him. He belongs to the world not one nationality.

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

A website that has decided to share:

closermagazine.com/v1/cl6/feature.html

There are scholars of Latin, Greek and Hebrew who still can debate scriptural passages. There are all sorts of historical clues about Copernicus. We can have opinions, but if the experts are still debating...well no wonder we are, too!

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

Apparently the modern spelling of the name is Kopernik. But there are a lot of them who have identified with Germany. So there are apparently Germans with the name and Poles with the name.

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

P.S. To show how complicated it can be....after she was living in the United States of America, my German grandmother listed herself as a Polish speaker in one census, and in a different census she listed herself as a German speaker.

She actually was quite fluent in Polish, Low German, High German and knew some Yiddish.

Prince, just wondering what are bambers? Ethnically different people who identified with Poland?

I do know that that happened all the time. People living in a country and identifying heart and soul where they reside. Kasubians being a case in point. Same ethnicity and one half identified with Germany and were deported and the other half identified with Poland. Moreorless.

Well, one thing is for certain. It is neat to talk about. There are lots of things to learn. But, I doubt we solve it. This is one of those things that has been debated a long time.

Oops! Either I failed to read it or you edited to answer me. Thanks!

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

And having been born in Poland for three hundred years, my ethnic Germans were loyal Polish citizens, too. But they were still ethnically German.

My Polish ancestors were citizens of Germany at the time they were born. And so they are listed as Germans when they came to America.

So, what country you are a citizen of proves little of what ethnic lines you have, but can reflect what country receives your loyalty.

From what I read, I honestly believe that Copernicus had a Polish father who married a German lady. So, he's really ethnically half and half, lived in Royal Prussia which was subject to Poland. I doubt he cared one way or another.

And the idea of sharing him really is best. :-)

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

I have no stake in it either way. I am half Polish and half German. Whatever the results, I am happy because I can claim him! muaauahahaha

:-D

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

It would be interesting to determine Copernicus' paternal DNA. The most prevalent Y Haplogroup for Poland and Germany is R1.

Polish males are likely to be R1a, whereas German males are likely to be R1b. There is overlap, however and so the arguments could continue. But whichever he was would certainly give a bit more amunition to the other side.

Remember though....BB did have a lot of facts, and he only wants Germans and Poles to share him.

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

Hey look at this! They think they have identified the remains of Copernicus via DNA. I wish they'd release his Y-DNA results :-)

From Yahoo:

WARSAW, Poland – Researchers believe they have identified the remains of Nicolaus Copernicus by comparing DNA from a skeleton they have found with that of hair retrieved from one of the 16th-century astronomer's books.

Jerzy Gassowski, an academic at an archaeology school in Poland, also says facial reconstruction of the skull his team found buried in a cathedral in Poland closely resembles existing portraits of Copernicus, whose theories identified the Sun, not the Earth, as the center of the universe.

Gassowski and Marie Allen, a Swedish DNA expert, told reporters about their findings in Warsaw on Thursday.

Allen said DNA from the bones and teeth matches that of hair found in a book the Polish astronomer owned. It is in a library at Sweden's Uppsala University.

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

Awwww..... :-)

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

Hi Shopgirl, thanks...and yes...I am sure you're right about the "boys" continuing to wrestle over it. Had to chuckle a bit when BB responded to Prince that he looked forward to their next exchange as he does his next car accident. :-D

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]

My lineage is Schultz on my father's maternal side of my family. When they lived in Poland, the records list them as Szulc. They spoke platt (low German), and considered themselves ethnic Germans and were Lutherans.

My understanding of that name is that it came from something similar to a village mayor who collected lease-rents for the noble. The term comes from the Hollandry system of farming. Originally Dutch, but then came to be applied to all ethnic Germans who farmed in Poland. They were Lutheran. After WWII most were expelled to Germany, but there are members of the family still in Poland who are now completely Polonized and Catholic.

Same thing with my Edling line. I am in contact with a Catholic priest who has done his genealogy and knows that before WWII his family spoke low German and were Lutheran.

Same with a cousin of mine who has Leichnitz family in Poland who now use a spelling something like....Lejchmic. They all trace their lines back to ethnic Germans but consider themselves Polish. And they have married Poles since then. So ethnicity is very fluid. The genes and culturization are two different things.

Many ethnic Germans knew they were German, but considered themselves Polish in the same sense that I am half Polish and half German, but my citizenship is in the USA. They were Polish by nationality, but German by ethnicity.

This may have been the case with Copernik. In any case, I doubt there was such a strong sense of what country you were from back then. Nationalism is a fairly modern thing.

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

Nothing, unless that is ALL you hear. Or it is truly believed and not so much a joke. Laughing at yourself is cool when people are laughing with you, not at you.

What I was speaking about was the belief that Poles are actually dumb. That was what was happening on the roof by people who were not educated or particularly bright themselves. But hearing all the Polish jokes made them think my boyfriend was a joke.

But yes, in general I agree that we have to be less touchy and willing to laugh at ourselves and the banter in most cases is harmless.

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

I had always thought that since the early Polish immigrants were simple farm people, uneducated peasants, that Americans simply got the wrong impression.

They had little way of knowing that there were educated Poles, or that during WWII many of the educated Poles were killed.

Also, as the Wiki article stated, the immigrants often did manual labor. From the PF boards it seems that Polish immigrants still have this problem in the Bristish Isles, I keep hearing about toilet cleaners, etc.

However, whenever we get Polish students working for the summers in the USA, it is apparent that they are very intelligent and well-educated. It is almost laughable to hear many Americans who are not so well-informed or educated then turn around and call them dumb Polacks. My boyfriend at the time who went to a very advanced school in Poland did roofing work while here. And the roofers knew nothing about the world, philsophy, art, etc and it broke my heart for him to hear Polack jokes.

Love / Are Polish men romantic and caring or... "plain"? [85]

Hi Madzia22, you might indeed. It's a small world.

Did you by chance go to the Polytechnika in Gdańsk? He had extremely long, dark hair.

And that's all I'll say. :-)

Love / Are Polish men romantic and caring or... "plain"? [85]

I had a Polish bf from Gdańsk for nearly three years, and he was very romantic.
And when I was sick, he cared for me, made tea, and was very attentive. We had lots of fun, too. He was very creative and always had me laughing.

He was a bit high maintenance in some ways, but we were very happy. It was one of the best relationships I ever experienced. We broke up due to the fact that he needed to go back to Poland and finish his studies for four years. LDR are very hard to maintain, and he was much younger than I. In the long run, I wanted him to have a normal life, and children. We had the best of what we could have at that time.

Food / Polish honey liquor called something like "vitatass"? [37]

From the article posted by Dice.....I believe maybe this is what the orginal poster is looking for. "Csyer," a form of mead made of honey and apple. I was wondering what it was called, too. I got a gift and it was said to be the drink of the gods....but I forgot the name of it.

Love / DO POLISH MEN DATE OLDER WOMEN? [169]

Yes, Latina, that is it precisely. Love never hands out guarantees regardless of how close in age we are. Look for the person. If anyone is in an age gap relationship and needs support there is a great site called "Agless Love." It is not a place to find a younger or older partner, but support for those who need it and those who have been together awhile and can give it. The site is for OW/YM or OM/YW

Love / DO POLISH MEN DATE OLDER WOMEN? [169]

Yes, people are curious about how other people live and what they think. You still do what you believe is best for you.

I had a serious relationship with a Polish man who was 28 years younger than myself. If you had told either of us before this that such would happen, we would have laughed.

But we met online and did not know our ages to begin with and enjoyed writing to each other.

I began to have feelings for him, and he for me but we both were quiet. Then one day, he told me. After eight months of writing, I went to Poland for three weeks and met his family. They thought it was nice their son met a lady from the USA, but they did not understand till later.

Amazingly, they came to like me and accept the situation. He got his visa and came to the USA for a year, and then went back to finish his MA. We were together almost three years, and it was a wonderful relationship for us both.

However, with such a big age difference, I felt we had the best of what we could have and that it was best to love him enough to set him free to be with a woman his age and have children. But we came close to marrying because we were just two people who loved. So, I hate the word boy/toy because he was never this to me. Nor was I a cougar. We are still close, he's married a great Polish young lady and it now makes me happy to see them happy.

No relationship regardless of ages comes with a guarantee. Some men leave same age women to marry younger. Some men who marry older women stay with them. It all depends on the people. I took a chance on love and believe in the old adage it is better to love than not at all.

News / 10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND! [628]

Czesc Puzzler! Glad you liked the post. :-)

News / 10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND! [628]

I understood that all the "resettlements" after WWII were results of the Potsdam Treaty. So I like the idea of those countries sharing whatever compensation would be deemed fit.

I am descended from Poles and ethnic Germans who were born and lived in Poland.
Doing genealogy, I met a man who was about 14 yrs old when the war was ending. He and his parents were poor farmers and managed to buy a tiny farm over a period of many years. I know that some, maybe a lot of ethnic Germans cooperated with the Nazis, but many were loyal Polish citizens.

After generations of living in Poland and never having set foot in Germany, it was hard to move there and lose everything. Their language had stayed the same as hundreds of years ago, and they were not considered Germans in Germany by many. And they, as well as ethnic Polish citizens were all subject to capture by the Russians. It was a horrible time for all. Anyway, they left their farm in the winter with everything on their backs and witnessed frozen dead bodies, bridges being bombed.

In the eighties, this man visited Poland and found his family's old farm. It had been settled with Poles from the east. And he made friends, particularly with the teen that lived there. He was about the same age as this teen when he lived there. They were poor, too. He is fairly well-off now, having emmigrated to Canada from Germany. Every year he sends Christmas presents and birthday gifts for the children. He could have felt angry and wanted reparations, but he is just happy that he is o.k. and they are o.k. I wish more were like him.

And he says that living in Poland, Germany and Canada, when he hears a national anthem, the only one that moves his heart is the Polish anthem. Anyway, many ethnic Germans were like this and had nothing to do with starting the war. Just thought a story that had suffering, but ended well would be inspirational.