News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]


'Barbarian' was just a word used by Romans and Greeks to describe other peoples. It's nothing 'primitive', as you mean it.
The Roman empire 'spread' their culture, civilisation long before they became Christians.


I have to agree with you here. It's true that it's the Church that built churches. (hum)
For the rest, they existed before Christianity, as they also existed in other cultures, at the other end of the world.


In wars the Church started. Phew, they helped the wounded and dying people they were responsible for.

Anyway, this is not really the main topic of this thread.

News / Poland's Nationalists hold congress [132]


Erm, what barbarians? And what dark ages?
The Church didn't invent civilisation, if that's what you mean.

News / Palikot - too liberal/modern for Poland? [197]


Daniel Cohn-Bendit? Self-confessed? Check again, he never said anything like that.
He's actually one of the few politicians to say what he really thinks, with passion. I like him.


Why? That was a bit easy, could you explain this?

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


We agree on this. But do you need to 'serve God' for that?

Life / Why aren't Polish dope-promoters prosecuted? [15]


In Poland, I doubt that. So many people smoke. Scary.
In France, there may be a decline. Due to increased prices, and strict regulations for smokers in many public places.

Life / Why aren't Polish dope-promoters prosecuted? [15]

How about alcohol and cigarettes? Is it okay to promote them just because they are legal drugs?

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Well, we're humans, we're sinners, you should know that.


Yeah, funny to think that if everybody followed rules, it would be a perfect world.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


I'm glad Soviet Poland is over, really. But your logic was a fallacy, in that case. Hitler was apparently a defender of animal rights. Defenders of animal rights are good guys. Therefore, Hitler was a good guy. That's the kind of silly fallacy I'm talking about. It's funny, but it makes no sense ;)


No, you're mistaken here. It's about the freedom of belief, opinion, no matter which one is yours. Poland is a big country, it's not one big community, there are different people, and that's why the state that represents ALL people should be 'neutral'. That's it.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Come on, you're not a kid from what I heard. We could play this little game, but we'll get bored soon.
If you know what a fallacy is, you probably know -I dare hope- you did one.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


Nope, that's a fallacious statement, no objective, logical observation ;)


And the little girls (and boys) laughed at because they decided not to do it.
The power of traditions. As beautiful as they can be.


Joli ;)

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


That's a funny logic, Iron ;)

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


This is traditions. My Polish teacher is not really a believer from what she told me, but she still goes to the church for Easter, because it's 'normal', it's the tradition.

Which doesn't mean that real Catholics are a minority in Poland, I wouldn't dare say that, but one has to be careful when just 'looking about'.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Apparently, yes, most Poles are Catholics. But what is your point, Polonius?


Where? Many people celebrate Christmas because it's a nice occasion to meet and enjoy some time with family, but it doesn't HAVE to be Catholic.

I mean, my Christmas were always very nice, I loved the atmosphere, the food, and everything, but it had very little to do with religion.


You didn't mention the fact that more and more young Poles don't want to get married, and also the increasing number of divorces ;)

Anyway, officially, Poland is a secular state, which means that, 'officially', the Church cannot interfere in the state issues and politics.
But of course, Polish culture was very influenced by Catholicism, and many people today are still quite 'religious'.

Life / Is multi-culti in Poland bankrupt? [73]


Never heard of that. Interpreting infos to make your point is not very objective. This is called misinformation. A very widely used strategy today I must say.

These people came from poor suburbs. There were Muslims, but there were also a lot of Whites. Strangely, nobody noticed them.
I agree tho that the system sucks, the immigrant policies have to be discussed, a lot.
But 'multi-culti', a very trendy word in Poland lately, has not much to do with this.

USA, Canada / This is what I was talking about America [19]

More than England (for instance)? Or the States? (talking about a violent country)

USA, Canada / This is what I was talking about America [19]


I guess you meant CZECH here. Bad mistake/typo for a 'Polak'.


Boy... I don't think Polish people are any more violent than other people. Seriously, leave your dear America, and come leave in Poland. So you learn something finally.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]


Trolls? We can't discuss views, difference of opinions without being called trolls?

Burial rites and art, that's morality?
Despite all the links you posted, we don't really know what these burial rites were, what they really meant. We can only interpret.
And how interbreeding is relevant here? I know that most of us have some Neandertal genes. So what?
Call me troll if you wish, but I still don't get your point.


Bon appétit. At least, I'm a polite troll ;)


Those possessing intelligence will believe the unbelievable, because...? You decided to believe in some Greater Something (name it God or whatever you want), I decided to believe in evolution. I probably don't possess the intelligence you mentioned, but I'll live with it. Well, if you confuse Darwinism with Spencerism, don't call me stupid.

I just don't think I need religion to be a better man.


I didn't start it, I promise ;) We're just discussing, anything wrong? Confronting theories isn't a sin, is it?

History / Khazars and their crimes in the Slavic lands of Poland [63]


Hmm, I'm not sure who they should apologize to. The Polans? They don't really exist anymore.
Did the Danes and Norwegians apologize to all Europe for the Viking raids of the 9th and 10th centuries?

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]

(You should tell me more about that research)
I said Christianity because it was the main topic here. Just read back.

To you, what is morality?


Polish kids get laughed at if they don't do that first communion thing. But if social pressure is fine with you, no need to discuss about morality.


If disputable rites, especially burial rites, and animal worshipping is considered religion, even primitive religion, then sure, you must be right.
Humans always needed to find answers, and fight their deep fears. There are many ways to do so. Religion is just one of them.


We weren't there. We can only interpret findings and results of researches. There is no much certainty in this kind of stuff. Unfortunately, they didn't leave much written stuff about their beliefs. (hum)


He said that? Sorry, I was probably late that day.


What is your point here? The fact that a lot of people believe in something doesn't make it any more real. A lot of people like chocolate, or worse, cigarettes, it doesn't mean it's healthy.

The fact that people need answers is nothing new. Using people's fears is easy, just give them what they want, and you're there.

A lot of people believe in something because of: traditions, social pressure, fears. There's probably more but I've said enough for now, or I would sound anti-Christian again ;)

Morality differs a lot between different places, cultures. It's more a cultural thing, than religious. Religion is only part of a culture.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]


Man is at the top of the food chain, but that's not evolution, that's biology (or maybe gastronomy?). It's actually religions that put man at the 'highest point' of development or whatever. Since, as you said, man was made in the image of God. That puts us, humans, in some sort of superior state. That's one of the interpretations. It's all about interpreting again.

But evolution doesn't place man anywhere. It's an explanation of how life evolved until today. Systematics does place us somewhere, in the mammal class, primate order, homo genus, etc.

I do agree tho that we are insignificant beings, but many scientists would agree on that too. About God being the center of everything, I won't comment.

So, tell me, what do you do in everyday life to aim at the Absolute?

I won't ask what being virtuous is to you, cuz it would probably take hours.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]


You never said SOCIAL Darwinism. And that is actually SPENCERISM. Darwin's theory has nothing to do with this. Maybe YOU should read more, and stop interpreting things as it suits you best.

And before you add more 'bull...' to this, racism existed long before 'liberals' arrived.
Humans, and especially religious men, have a sort of gift to interprete stuff. You are a perfect example of that.


Again, I would like you to explain me this. How is it pure nonsense? There is no evolution? God created everything in one week? Well, that's your opinion. Don't expect me to buy this.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]


Neandertal? Wow, that's far. There's a difference between 2000 and 30,000 years ago. You're talking about primitive humans. And they showed interesting characteristics, that homo sapiens didn't have. Not just talking about the size of their brain.

And actually, you'd be surprised to learn that even apes -since you mentioned them- live in some kind of organised 'society', with 'rules'.
Of course, you can't really compare our advanced society with apes.


What mysterious societies are you talking about? Neandertals? If you are talking about them, scientists are still not sure why they disappeared, so I doubt you do. Neither do I anyway.


Why do you say that? I just disagreed with morality being religion's property.

I never was an anarchist. But I still don't think I need a god above my head to decide whether I should kill or rob people or not.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]


How can racism be the consequence of Darwinism? How the fact of saying we're all the same species, no matter the colour or origin, and share the same ancestries can lead to racism?

You may be a creationist, and -of course- disagree with evolutionism, but try to stay objective.
As Barney said, you can't just throw stuff like that and not expect any clarification.


And of course now Church is perfection and 100% innocent.
They are openly against contraception, which make them responsible for a lot of deaths. And that's also liberals' fault I presume.

Kondzi, explain us how your perfect moral world would be like, please. It could be interesting. Apart from spitting your venom, I don't see anything we could use to build a better world.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]


Oh I did. You seem to disagree. How many million dead in the name of God? Whatever gods actually. How many million dead in the name of some divine undisputable Truth, 'Morality'?

Dogmas debase people. They force them to believe without thinking. This goes against our deep nature.
Slavery still exists, as it existed a few centuries ago, when Christianism was much more powerful. It seems Christian morality wasn't strong enough back then (either).

I'm not sure I got your point. If today's world is as bad as you say, when in history was it better? Honestly. If we lost our morality, then when in the past were we more...moral?

When did the Church or any other major religion succeeded in forcing people not to act immorally?

What about the rest of my post? Anything else interesting? You just quoted a part of a quotation, that was too easy.

Life / First communion - it's that time of year again in Poland! [109]

Morality, moral codes, existed long before Christianity. And even before a lot of other religions, beliefs.
Our brain is capable of discerning what is right or wrong, good or bad, most of the time, without any help from gods.

We are sensitive, social beings, which means our acts have effects on how we feel and behave, as individuals, and as indivudals inside a group of other people.

Also, it's a survival instinct to preserve yourself, and the group you live in.

Guilt and empathy are two important points when it comes to our 'morality'.
And you know what? Some animals actually have some of these moral codes too. And no, they are not Catholic chimpanzees.

I'd like to give you some interesting quotations:


Bertrand Russell, Why I Am Not a Christian: And Other Essays on Religion and Related Subjects.

Sweden and Denmark, which are probably the least religious countries in the world, and possibly in the history of the world, enjoy among the lowest violent crime rates in the world [and] the lowest levels of corruption in the world.

Phil Zuckerman, Society Without God.


Dalai Lama (2012).

Morality in religions, and specifically in Christianity, since this is the one we're talking about here, can often be discussed.
We can 'study' some parts of the Old and New Testaments if you wish.

Life / Why are Polish so obsessed with Russia [46]


I didn't say it was long, I said it was weird. Half seriously of course.
I'm used to the Latin alphabet, that's the difference. But of course, I'm sure Polish could be written with the Cyrillic alphabet too.

But that's also the difference between Catholic and Orthodox countries.
Anyway, it's getting late, talk to you later.

Life / Why are Polish so obsessed with Russia [46]


Then clearly not Russia ;)


Probably, even tho they have that weird cyrillic alphabet too... ;)

Life / Why are Polish so obsessed with Russia [46]


And Polaks are more similar to Czechs and Slovaks than Russians, why don't you focus on these countries instead? Are you that obsessed with Russia that you can't see there are closer cultures than the Russian one in Europe?


? Fries are actually supposed to be Belgian, but you can't know that, you're a (Polish-)American, obsessed with Russia.

Life / Why are Polish so obsessed with Russia [46]

Yes, Albert, you're obsessed with Russia, we all got that. You should find a Russian chick and marry her.
I still don't know why you want Polish people to be as obsessed with Russia as you. Because they're not, really.

Life / Why are Polish so obsessed with Russia [46]

'Why are Polish so obsessed with Russia', I see only one person obviously obsessed with Russia here, it's you Abert28.
I think most of the Poles today just don't give Russia so much attention. Why would they? Do Czechs care more about Russia? I'm really not sure.

About what the Americans think of the Poles, who cares? The average knowledge of Europe among the American population is nothing to be proud of. Sweden is ABBA, Spain is sun and beaches, and France is Paris. That's about it.

Again, you're talking about some inferiority complex, are you sure you're not the one with that complex? And actually we may wonder if you're actually Polish.

If you care so much about Poland and hate Americans so badly, why don't you go back to your motherland?