Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Well...better don't start as it will be a flop.
Writing ones own history is a daunting task already but writing about a foreign country's history without having even basic knowledge is madness. Nothing good can come out of it.
Learn at least the language so that you can read from time witnesses, better yet learn both languages so that you can read from all concerned parties, settle there or live there for longer amount of time...walk the old towns, go the old ways...to make your story somehow believable you must yourself immerse into this region, into this culture....not asking some questions on an internet forum!
Seriously...
PS: There are some archives there already, even online but mostly in other books in polish and german, where polish and german families tell their stories...you will need to know the languages when you want to know what you will be writing about.
I'm actually trying to do some research for a novel I'm writing. The novel will follow one Polish family all the way from the eighteenth century up to the 1950s (and potentially beyond, though I think not).
Well...better don't start as it will be a flop.
Writing ones own history is a daunting task already but writing about a foreign country's history without having even basic knowledge is madness. Nothing good can come out of it.
Learn at least the language so that you can read from time witnesses, better yet learn both languages so that you can read from all concerned parties, settle there or live there for longer amount of time...walk the old towns, go the old ways...to make your story somehow believable you must yourself immerse into this region, into this culture....not asking some questions on an internet forum!
Seriously...
PS: There are some archives there already, even online but mostly in other books in polish and german, where polish and german families tell their stories...you will need to know the languages when you want to know what you will be writing about.
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
USA, Canada / EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NYC DISRESPECTS POLISH AMERICANS! [88]
And....they didn't even use the old prussian colors but the new german colors to honor the prussian Von Steuben...those bastards!!!! *shakes fist at general direction of New York*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben
Really??? Yuck!
And....they didn't even use the old prussian colors but the new german colors to honor the prussian Von Steuben...those bastards!!!! *shakes fist at general direction of New York*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Wilhelm_von_Steuben
But what else can we expect with our Leftist leader who permitted a Mao ornament to hang on the White House Christmas tree last year?... True story.
Really??? Yuck!
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
USA, Canada / EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NYC DISRESPECTS POLISH AMERICANS! [88]
Especially as most immigrants came to America to flee their murderous regimes...I doubt they would like see the colors of Mao or Hitler (or Stalin) on the Building!
I'm just saying, the number of Chinese in NYC doesn't justify celebrating a murderous Commie China leader anymore than the number of Germans there justifies celebrating a murderous Nazi German leader.
Especially as most immigrants came to America to flee their murderous regimes...I doubt they would like see the colors of Mao or Hitler (or Stalin) on the Building!
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
USA, Canada / EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NYC DISRESPECTS POLISH AMERICANS! [88]
I didn't know of that ritual actually before reading about it here on PF...so in Germany nobody cares at all!
Well...why should they use Hitler for german history? There are 2000 years of us compared to a mere 12.
Should they use commie polish colors for Poland??? That was far longer than Nazi Germany...
Also the chinese civilization is one of the oldest...why only the most recent commie times?
You seem the one who is highly selective here! :(
To be honest, would you guys complain if you wouldn't be on that schedule? lol
I didn't know of that ritual actually before reading about it here on PF...so in Germany nobody cares at all!
With that thinking, I guess on German Day they should light it up in the colors of Hitler's SS...
Well...why should they use Hitler for german history? There are 2000 years of us compared to a mere 12.
Should they use commie polish colors for Poland??? That was far longer than Nazi Germany...
So just because there are a lot of Chinese in NYC we should celebrate murderous Communist leadership?
Also the chinese civilization is one of the oldest...why only the most recent commie times?
You seem the one who is highly selective here! :(
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
USA, Canada / EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN NYC DISRESPECTS POLISH AMERICANS! [88]
Well...I for one are not complaining! :)
Here is the official lightning schedule:
esbnyc.com/tourism/tourism_lightingschedule.cfm
Well...I for one are not complaining! :)
Just last week, the iconic building was illuminated in the German colors yellow, red and black to honor Gen. Frederick Von Steuben, who like Pulaski, fought alongside George Washington.
Here is the official lightning schedule:
esbnyc.com/tourism/tourism_lightingschedule.cfm
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
News / 20 years of German unification. Poles no longer afraid of Germany. [8]
I think they can stop now with this partying.....okay...maybe the 25th again but that should be it. Germany is back to normal and period.
;)
I've read recently the whole number is 1.5 million (I've thought it would have been more).
There was always flow of people back and forth in this region....it will come to that again and it will be seen as something normal again. I'm sure of it. ;)
Well...many Germans aren't happy about how the EU is managed. The crisises of the last years have shown it.
Many think a german way would be better (of course many countries balk against that). But seeing that Germany is the mose successful country they should come to rethink their knee jerk reaction.
If we want to keept this thing that binds us working we need to make it abit better....
So yes Germany will assert itself more, and it's not necessarily a bad thing for our neighbours!
I think they can stop now with this partying.....okay...maybe the 25th again but that should be it. Germany is back to normal and period.
;)
This one's for BB to comment on others are also welcome of course but he might be particularly interested, interesting situation how bad is the German flight west?
I've read recently the whole number is 1.5 million (I've thought it would have been more).
There was always flow of people back and forth in this region....it will come to that again and it will be seen as something normal again. I'm sure of it. ;)
Well...many Germans aren't happy about how the EU is managed. The crisises of the last years have shown it.
Many think a german way would be better (of course many countries balk against that). But seeing that Germany is the mose successful country they should come to rethink their knee jerk reaction.
If we want to keept this thing that binds us working we need to make it abit better....
So yes Germany will assert itself more, and it's not necessarily a bad thing for our neighbours!
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
Bratwurst Boy
5 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Oh cry me a river...the polish president Mazowiecky was the first one after the war to acknowledge the presence of some Germans left in Poland at all, in 1989!
How is that for Polonization or denying the existence of the heart and soul of a whole minority at all...you can't even hold a candle on Prussia!
Still, he was dismissed from the last class (klasa maturalna) at school for negative comments about Bismarck and in 1902 he was in jail for the articles he wrote: "To Germans" and "To my brothers, Upper Silesians" :)
Oh cry me a river...the polish president Mazowiecky was the first one after the war to acknowledge the presence of some Germans left in Poland at all, in 1989!
How is that for Polonization or denying the existence of the heart and soul of a whole minority at all...you can't even hold a candle on Prussia!
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
"The" Germans surely not...There were the red chaots, there was the Freikorps and then there still was the Reichswehr.
With modernization comes the middle class...and that was helped by Prussia!
Nope...the outcome of WWI and this treaty made it sure, then there had been the allies supporting the new Poland against any german claims in every way.
PS: Do you know about this guy? One of the organizers of the uprisings
A polish nationalist activist member of the german parliament instead of in a gulag!
Prussian opression my arse!!!
My point is, Germans were not fighting any more. Not as a country. As mobs, they were fighting for the Bright Future.
"The" Germans surely not...There were the red chaots, there was the Freikorps and then there still was the Reichswehr.
Now you are not suggesting that Germans pumped money in developing the Polish middle class... or are you? :)
With modernization comes the middle class...and that was helped by Prussia!
A bit more, though.
Nope...the outcome of WWI and this treaty made it sure, then there had been the allies supporting the new Poland against any german claims in every way.
PS: Do you know about this guy? One of the organizers of the uprisings
Wojciech Korfanty (20 April 1873 - 17 August 1939), born Adalbert Korfanty, was a Polish nationalist activist, journalist and politician, serving as member of the German parliaments Reichstag and Prussian Landtag, and later on, in the Polish Sejm. Briefly, he also was a paramilitary leader, known for organizing the Polish Silesian Uprisings in Germany's Upper Silesia.
He was known for his policies in the wake of World War I which sought to join Silesia to Poland.
He was known for his policies in the wake of World War I which sought to join Silesia to Poland.
A polish nationalist activist member of the german parliament instead of in a gulag!
Prussian opression my arse!!!
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Who knows what they would do had they found themselves under russian occupation with only the Germans left fighting....;)
I have no idea about Lodz but somehow I doubt it had been at the same standards as Prussian towns.
Well...I was only saying that instead of treating Poles and the partition like a colonial subject to exploit and opress Berlin pumped much money, energy and material into it. (Abit like today come to think of it)
:)
The Silesian uprisings were definitely orchestrated by Warsaw, that is no news anymore!
"Unjust result", says it all, doesn't it....Warsaw just didn't want to accept the fact of the german majority at all.
It needed WWI and the Treaty of Versailles, nothing else.
Poles would not defend Germany for the sweet memories of the Prussian hospitality during the partitions, would they...
Who knows what they would do had they found themselves under russian occupation with only the Germans left fighting....;)
Like in £ódź, innit. Somehow Prussians were not involved.
I have no idea about Lodz but somehow I doubt it had been at the same standards as Prussian towns.
And Poles are organically incapable of spontaneously modernising, nor even of voluntarily adopting modernisation, is what you're saying?
Well...I was only saying that instead of treating Poles and the partition like a colonial subject to exploit and opress Berlin pumped much money, energy and material into it. (Abit like today come to think of it)
:)
There was no Warsaw then to orchestrate the uprisings, all went East.
The Silesian uprisings were definitely orchestrated by Warsaw, that is no news anymore!
the reason for the 3rd uprising was the unjust result of the plebiscite.
"Unjust result", says it all, doesn't it....Warsaw just didn't want to accept the fact of the german majority at all.
Poland was not a result of the Treaty.
It needed WWI and the Treaty of Versailles, nothing else.
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Yeah...I wonder about that too! :)
But there are still some left.
Yeah...I wonder about that too! :)
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / What happened from 1650-1795? [68]
Hmmm....thanks for the info....I never heard about that in german commie school either!
Hmmm....thanks for the info....I never heard about that in german commie school either!
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
I told you, there isn't.
Silesia is still on the maps, but the german Silesians were ethnical cleansed or emigrated later and the population had been exchanged with those from eastern Poland which became Russia/Ukraine.
Can't be made undone anymore...
how much there's left of your "Silesianess"?
I told you, there isn't.
Silesia is still on the maps, but the german Silesians were ethnical cleansed or emigrated later and the population had been exchanged with those from eastern Poland which became Russia/Ukraine.
Can't be made undone anymore...
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
For a middle class it surely needs urbanization. And urbanization needs industrialisation..
A middle class developes with modernization, something Berlin supported and developed in polish Prussia!
That was one of the main reasons for the silesian uprisings as orchestrated by Warsaw btw. They wanted the highly (prussian) industrialized silesian region all for themselves, forcing the League of Nations to give it to them, regardless of the ethnic make up of the region.
No, it didn't need it
For a middle class it surely needs urbanization. And urbanization needs industrialisation..
A middle class developes with modernization, something Berlin supported and developed in polish Prussia!
That was one of the main reasons for the silesian uprisings as orchestrated by Warsaw btw. They wanted the highly (prussian) industrialized silesian region all for themselves, forcing the League of Nations to give it to them, regardless of the ethnic make up of the region.
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Russia was amidst a bloody civil war...I reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreal lly doubt they would had been able to take Germany over....
And IF somehow Soviet Russia had taken over both Poland and Germany it would had surely compelled our both people to ally and to fight them.....imagine that! :)
The 1920 war prevented the Red Army from taking over Germany, with German working classes eagerly awaiting the liberation from the blood-sucking bourgeoisie.
Imagine it happened.
Imagine it happened.
Russia was amidst a bloody civil war...I reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreal lly doubt they would had been able to take Germany over....
And IF somehow Soviet Russia had taken over both Poland and Germany it would had surely compelled our both people to ally and to fight them.....imagine that! :)
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / What happened from 1650-1795? [68]
Marx/Engels had been so anti-russian? I wonder if the Soviets knew that...
Marx/Engels had been so anti-russian? I wonder if the Soviets knew that...
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Well...for it's time it was very pretty! :)
Nothing worse than the Poles did.
It still is only about language. You can still speak polish at home, write polish books and read them etc.
Not in many actually...
Propaganda makes sure of it. But why can't you accept the proof I brought? Even your Norman Davies paints a quite fair image of Prussian Poland.
How fits growing polish wealth and influence in your image of an opressive Prussia?
Oh boy....you said yourself earlier that you are a halfwit when it comes to history...admitting not knowing much or reading much even as I point you to literature and other links where you could learn more.
When you don't want your prejudices and half knowledge destroyed please refrain from taking part in historical discussions in the first place!
Bye
And it's not as pretty as you portray it, BB.
Well...for it's time it was very pretty! :)
Germanization was stopping them.
Nothing worse than the Poles did.
Are you that naive? If your country disappears from the map, you're taught in German at school, you're thaught German history from the German point of view, you have to speak in German to your classmates, pray in German at religion classes, deal in offices in German... In a second or third generation - how much there's left of your "Polishness"?
It still is only about language. You can still speak polish at home, write polish books and read them etc.
Not really, in many countries there are more then one official language.
Not in many actually...
You must understand that Poles won't view Prussia as you do.
Propaganda makes sure of it. But why can't you accept the proof I brought? Even your Norman Davies paints a quite fair image of Prussian Poland.
How fits growing polish wealth and influence in your image of an opressive Prussia?
I think I'm staring to hate you..
Oh boy....you said yourself earlier that you are a halfwit when it comes to history...admitting not knowing much or reading much even as I point you to literature and other links where you could learn more.
When you don't want your prejudices and half knowledge destroyed please refrain from taking part in historical discussions in the first place!
Bye
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
That sounds interesting, do you have a link?
I think this book is something you are looking for.
That sounds interesting, do you have a link?
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Silesia is still there, the people aren't anymore...
Yet Silesia is wiped from the face of the map.
Silesia is still there, the people aren't anymore...
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Well..I'm abit longer here and that is the recurring myth...of course it is a slogan and everybody digging deeper into the prussian partition learns it for themselves that it wasn't as black and bleak as it is always painted by Poles.
Prussia was on another level as mainly agrarian Poland...It needs industrialization and urbanization for a middle class to develop and to grow, to become wealthy and gain influence...so, it needed prussian influence for that.
Prussia had at this time the best education in the whole of Europe...and Poles in Prussia could take part.
Well..who is stopping them.
Prussia invited many different people from all over Europe...even Jews, french Huguenots, everybody. It was quite liberal and tolerant.
Nobody was forced to give up their heritage. Still as every country did and still does, there could only be one official language...
I think we can agree here but what I so heavily object is this downtalking of Prussia, this myth of a barbaric opressive system which came up always with new ideas to torture poor victimized Poles.
It for sure wasn't perfect and integrating such a hostile minority has it's problems but it was nothing of that kind as Poles like to portray it!
Well...that are facts too Paulina...
The Versailles Treaty gave Poland it's independence...and it sowed Hitler.
Make of this what you want!
BB, you wrote a slogan, and I'm giving you facts.
Well..I'm abit longer here and that is the recurring myth...of course it is a slogan and everybody digging deeper into the prussian partition learns it for themselves that it wasn't as black and bleak as it is always painted by Poles.
You think Poland wouldn't have middle class, industrial development, higher education and canalization in Warsaw without partitions? ;D
Prussia was on another level as mainly agrarian Poland...It needs industrialization and urbanization for a middle class to develop and to grow, to become wealthy and gain influence...so, it needed prussian influence for that.
It would and we would prefer to get all of this while being an independent country with Polish language in our univerities, not German or Russian.
Prussia had at this time the best education in the whole of Europe...and Poles in Prussia could take part.
Poles immigrate to different richer countries all the time, it doesn't mean all of them want to be German, British or American :) They often cherish their ancestry
Well..who is stopping them.
Prussia invited many different people from all over Europe...even Jews, french Huguenots, everybody. It was quite liberal and tolerant.
Nobody was forced to give up their heritage. Still as every country did and still does, there could only be one official language...
BB, I really don't believe you don't get it...
I think we can agree here but what I so heavily object is this downtalking of Prussia, this myth of a barbaric opressive system which came up always with new ideas to torture poor victimized Poles.
It for sure wasn't perfect and integrating such a hostile minority has it's problems but it was nothing of that kind as Poles like to portray it!
Wooow, that's a twisted logic LOL
Well...that are facts too Paulina...
The Versailles Treaty gave Poland it's independence...and it sowed Hitler.
Make of this what you want!
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Many of those who somehow survived the ethnical cleansing after 1945 left Poland in waves with millions alone during the 80's...
And what happened to the germanized poles?
Many of those who somehow survived the ethnical cleansing after 1945 left Poland in waves with millions alone during the 80's...
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / What happened from 1650-1795? [68]
Yup...hey...you know about it? :)
Are you into Asatru, just curious? :)
Yup...hey...you know about it? :)
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / What happened from 1650-1795? [68]
Yeah...how uncommon in other people!
"Poland Christ of Nations" anybody???
Or that one:
;)
Believe me Jasinski, every patriot feels that his people are special and somehow better than others.
(Add to that that Germans really have a long list to show off their achievements...much more than many other countries) ;)
yes their growing national pride or the steadily increasing idea that germans were superior(very popular among germans)
Yeah...how uncommon in other people!
"Poland Christ of Nations" anybody???
Or that one:
what a absolutely amazing story poland is.
;)
Believe me Jasinski, every patriot feels that his people are special and somehow better than others.
(Add to that that Germans really have a long list to show off their achievements...much more than many other countries) ;)
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / What happened from 1650-1795? [68]
Well...I can live with that! ;)
Sounds like a catholic Taliban state to me...theocracies are not my cup of tea
*binds pagan helmet more firm*
Swelling German ego
Well...I can live with that! ;)
3) The nobles came to embrace a Catholic identity, identifying their state and nation with the Catholic Church
Sounds like a catholic Taliban state to me...theocracies are not my cup of tea
*binds pagan helmet more firm*
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
It's not me changing facts...it's mainly Poles telling the clear myth of the brutal opressing anti-polish Prussia.
Not the fact of the Prussia which brought wealth, political freedoms, a growing middle class, industrial development and higher education to Poles!
Tell that to the millions of Poles who immigrated over the centuries into Prussia/Germany totally voluntarily.
Millions! They became bonafide Germans....
Well...Poles had it good in Prussia...what did they gain with their independence? War, complete destruction and more occupation for more than 50 years! Wow!
As I wrote Germany wasn't the Third Reich at that time. Still, the facts are what they are, and nobody can change them, not me, not you.
It's not me changing facts...it's mainly Poles telling the clear myth of the brutal opressing anti-polish Prussia.
Not the fact of the Prussia which brought wealth, political freedoms, a growing middle class, industrial development and higher education to Poles!
Poles didn't want to be Germans :)))
Tell that to the millions of Poles who immigrated over the centuries into Prussia/Germany totally voluntarily.
Millions! They became bonafide Germans....
I won't because it took away my country's independence and tried to turn Poles into Germans.
Well...Poles had it good in Prussia...what did they gain with their independence? War, complete destruction and more occupation for more than 50 years! Wow!
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / What happened from 1650-1795? [68]
I have nothing against "ego" but "VULGAR"??? Oh pleeeeeaaaaaase
Every country (most) has these times of success and those of defeats...no country is inherently barbaric or has a "vulgar ego"...that is so stupid.
You just have to look on a time table and compare...
I have nothing against "ego" but "VULGAR"??? Oh pleeeeeaaaaaase
It was, during the Commonwealth. Elsewhere unheard of period of stability and well-being, democracy at its best, tolerance and development.
Every country (most) has these times of success and those of defeats...no country is inherently barbaric or has a "vulgar ego"...that is so stupid.
You just have to look on a time table and compare...
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
Well..somehow didn't stop the Poles to grew wealthier and more influential under prussian "opression".
Man, what an opression!
Norman Davies "God's Playground"
"Preussen"
Well, you're right this time.
Well..somehow didn't stop the Poles to grew wealthier and more influential under prussian "opression".
Of the three partitions, the education system in Prussia was on a much higher level than in Austria or Russia.[2]
[edit] Economy
From the economic perspective, the territories of the Prussian partitions were the most developed, thanks to the progressive policies of the Prussian government.[2]The German government supported efficient farming, industry, financial institutions and transport.[2]
[edit] Economy
From the economic perspective, the territories of the Prussian partitions were the most developed, thanks to the progressive policies of the Prussian government.[2]The German government supported efficient farming, industry, financial institutions and transport.[2]
Man, what an opression!
Norman Davies "God's Playground"
"Preussen"
Bratwurst Boy
4 Oct 2010
History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]
You remember what your teacher tell you...don't forget that the prussian "opression" had to be painted in the blackest colors to justify your fight for independence and all what came later - it's called propaganda.
Just think abit more about that snippet from this little article, there is more where that came from!
Berlin got anxious about a growing polish middle class whose wealth and INFLUENCE likewise grew! Poles who could voice their opinions freely in independent papers!
This had been the real facts.... Contrary to polish propaganda Poles had been quite well off in the most modern and advanced country of Europe at that time!
So, stop crying about mean, bad Prussia...I won't believe it anymore.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonization
For several hours? As far as I can remember Polish children weren't allowed to speak Polish even among themselves.
You remember what your teacher tell you...don't forget that the prussian "opression" had to be painted in the blackest colors to justify your fight for independence and all what came later - it's called propaganda.
Just think abit more about that snippet from this little article, there is more where that came from!
Berlin got anxious about a growing polish middle class whose wealth and INFLUENCE likewise grew! Poles who could voice their opinions freely in independent papers!
This had been the real facts.... Contrary to polish propaganda Poles had been quite well off in the most modern and advanced country of Europe at that time!
So, stop crying about mean, bad Prussia...I won't believe it anymore.
When and how?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonization