Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]

@polinv

Ah you know Wroclaw well. I was born in Zlotniki. If you can buy a kamienica in the rynek with a commercial space like a restaurant below that's a dream but that costs big money now. Rents go for even 30k zloty plus

Skytower is overpriced for condos but I really like that building. That's where I always stay at if I don't feel like driving back to Oborniki or if I just want to relax downtown for a few days.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


The early Gomulka was a Commie who agitated for workers rights and ran away like a little girl from the Nazis
The late Gomulka was a Commie who killed workers agitating for rights and rigged elections and referendums (Allied opinion) a few years after coming back with the Red Army and Judeo-Bolsheviks to bully Poland, then later tried to prevent the same people he came back with from establishing a total monopoly on the levers of power so he and his Polish-Socialist friends could have it instead

The only Gomulka I'm familiar with is the Communist scum who sold Poland out to Judeo-Bolsheviks such as Berman, Lieberman, Romkowski, Bierut, Ochab, Finder, & CO who were sent to organize Commie groups by the Soviets and take control of the country. Gomulka ran eastward with fellow Commie scum when the Nazis invaded. He only returned (see above the Russian/Jewish/Polish Commie M.O.) as the Nazis were retreating and were beat back at Kursk and other battles. After licking enough Stalinist and/or Judeo-Bolshevik boots, he got more and more power and severely repressed students, workers, protestors, etc who were sick of the low pay and conditions - much like the Spanish government who you were crying about just a few days ago... only difference is the Spanish police used rubber bullets, batons, etc. and didn't kill or severely injure anyone. Nor did they put Catalonian protestors in jail for days... Gomulka allowed live rounds, torture, detention, and murder. He at least had a shred of patriotism left for the Poles as he saw that he helped install a total Judeo-Bolshevik regime in power and tried for the rest of his life to change that including writing letters to Stalin to prevent a near total Judeo-Bolshevik political monopoly (and failed) and cried to Stalin saying too many Jews who hate Poles are running the country. He was kicked out of the party and spent nearly decade in prison where yes after his release, he implemented some reforms although much of that was a product of the time - the gradual decline of the original Judeo-Bolshevik and Stalinist power waning, the Kruschev thaw/PL October, and so on. Only different between Gomulka and Bierut's along with his Jewish faction is at first Gomulka wanted to bring others into the fold by diplomatic means, Bierut decided screw it - the Red Army's in charge of Poland anyway!

His 'Polish way to socialism' was still socialism... violent suppression, total media control, allowing Soviet troops to occupy Poland indefinitely, killing people who protest or jailing them for years, terrible wages, no free market, terrible inflation, price controls, etc. I guess he was marginally better than the people in the Stalinist Judeo Bolshevik faction though who didn't care about Poland one bit.

Now back on the German topic...

USA, Canada / How well Polish immigrants and Polish Americans (including those who speak Polish) get along? [2]

Welcome to PF. I am a Polish-American living in Chicago as well (born in Poland though and fluent in Polish)

Polish-Americans tend to be very very cliquey. You are right though - in my experience it was easier to make friends with FOB type Poles than more Americanized Poles.

Study / I'm thinking to study in the Wrocław University of Science and Technology [55]

@Whocares386

Its ultimately up to you. Honestly heed the advice though or at least consider it. If so many people are telling you you're better off not studying in Poland at least ask why people who are from there are telling you that. The English level classes in PL are BS and Polish employers are aware of that. You're going to have a very hard time finding a job both during and after school for the simple fact that you're not a polish speaker, you're not a native English speaker (so it may be hard for you even to get a job as like a translator, English teacher or tutor, etc), and its going to be an uphill battle even after you get your degree just getting in the door at a polish firm. Only way I see this really working is if your family is supporting you during school and probably for a few months afterwards till you find a job in Germany, US, UK, etc

Study / I'm thinking to study in the Wrocław University of Science and Technology [55]


True. Yet so many people from the Indian subcontinent are lining up for it still.

Life / Boring Life after work in Poland (Bydgoszcz) [29]


Hahahaha oh man that just made my day

Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]


I do think property values will continue to slowly but surely grow for some time and rents will gradually grow with the flood of Ukranians as well as foreigners coming to Poland for work and study as wages rise along with a lot of Poles moving back from the UK and a handful from US. I read an article on the plane last time I went to Poland that almost every single international moving company providing moving services from UK to PL are booked solid for the next 6+ months.

The times where you could make 50-100%+ profit flipping a place or buy a small 6 apartment building for maybe $100-$200k and rent each unit out for an average of 3k zloty a month are over though.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


Yeah that's why the remaining paragraph was: Unless by 'people' you mean foreign funded groups like KOD and those who don't give a flying phuck about Poland aside from the zlotys they can change into dollars, euros, and pounds. I don't hear Poles saying that at all. The only criticisms were during the so called 'constitutional crisis' - which Duda vetoe'd 2/3 and during the abortion protest which PiS also listened to the people and cancelled their proposals. The 500 plus, refusal to kow tow to EU, refusal to take in migrants, among other policies were greeted warmly - hence their record support which is double PO's. The only people who are comparing Poland to PRL are traitors like Michnik (he should talk, considering his own family killed AK members). If Poland were really like the PRL leaders they would shut down Wyborcza, confiscate their property, and make Michnik a persona non grata (he lives in NYC anyway). I'm willing to bet that Poles would celebrate if that happened as Poles are more aware than ever who's a patriot and working to help the country and who isn't. Give their fancy apple computers to the poor schools in the east.

PiS and patriots (even those who necessarily don't support PiS) called these individuals 'not real Poles' months ago because a real Pole wouldn't want harm to come to his or her nation and wouldn't sell out Polish interests to cudoziemcy. This was during the 'constitutional crisis' because they believed we should settle our own affairs instead of allowing millions from foreign NGO with specific agendas (more often than not which aren't in the interests of Poles and Poland) to interfere in our affairs.

There's many things I don't like about PiS and a lot of things I like about PO. Nonetheless, I believe Poles should settle their own domestic affairs - not people from outside to interfere and sway decisions to their agendas which more often than not doesn't help the country. This is where the phrase 'not real' Poles came from. It was the same back in WW2 - real Poles wouldn't side with the USSR and allow a puppet regime to form. Real Poles sacrificed their lives trying to prevent that.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

@kaprys

The context was as follows:

mafketis - People that have experience both say that structurally and operationally PiS is essentially a neo-PRL with a different political ideology but the same model of rule by the party leader (and patronage and corruption)

me: No real Pole compares modern day Poland to PRL within PL - that's an insult to Poles and Poland and they'd know that.

The reason why I said that is because any 'real' Pole - meaning a person who has Polish ethnicity and has an understanding of Polish history, culture, society, tradition, etc would know how different PRL is from modern day, post EU entry Poland. I'm not Hungarian or German yet I know that modern Hungary is vastly different than the Hungarian People's Republic and modern E. Germany is different than the GDR. A 'real' Hungarian and 'real German especially would know the difference too and not say the two very similar especially structurally and operationally, they'd know a lot more than I would too on this subject as they are Hungarians/Germans and I am not.

3rd time now, can we discuss the title of the thread??

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


That's exactly what they did - it was a mix of Poles, Polish/Russian Jews, and Russians. Russian officers controlled the military positions while Poles and Jews controlled politics and state security. A high proportion of the leaders, especially in the UB of whom half were Jews, were those who fled Poland, went to Russia, and marched back in with the Red Army in front and later controlled the UB among other key posts. We've been trying to rid Poland of them and their vestiges since 1990. That's why Moscow is so upset that we destroy Communist 'liberator' symbols.


Muscovite NKVD/GRU agent. He spent his whole life kissing Russian a$$ only to be killed by the Russian Commies he admired so much anyway. A traitor to the Poles, killer of AK members, coward who loved commies but hid from them during the purge, killer of clergy, and all around scumbag. This is why we want to eliminate any awards to such people.


Same - Musvoite ass kisser who was brainwashed after his family was captured and exiled to USSR. Helped kill Polish AK members, clergy, true patriots, etc.


Western Betrayal was just one of the many circumstances that resulted in Poland being USSR controlled for 5 decades. However, I can't really blame the West - it would've been nearly impossible to reconquer Poland from Stalin as Churchill wanted to in Operation Unthinkable but everyone was simple too weary of war and Allies had already agreed to the spheres of influence at Yalta anyway. The AK, the cursed soldiers, and others who supported the Polish government (which would later be in exile) were far more numerous than those who supported the Commies. As we know in history, numbers don't necessarily determine outcomes. The traitorous Poles and the Polish 'Muscovite' Jews who were allied with the Commies in Moscow came back to Poland especially after the uprising and the Nazis retreat and rolled right in, throughout all of Poland from east to west, and then into Berlin. The army led, the traitors from Poland (half 'Muscovite' Jewish faction, other half brainwashed subservient Poles and Russian officials) established state security - UB - half of who's leadership were Polish Jews from the so called Muscovite faction and other institutions. It was the same situation in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Baltics, etc. The Poles didn't want this but had no army to resist this. They were crushed by Nazis, then Russians, only to be taken advantage by Polish Jews and their brainwashed ethnic Polish friends who perhaps promised their families a few a loaves bread or two so they wouldn't starve.


It absolutely was -from Stalin's death all the way to solidarnosc being a formal legal party. There were reforms immediately following with the Kruschev thaw with the Polish October (led partly by Gomulka) to Solidarnosc to the gradual infiltration of more and more people in PUK/PZPR/etc along with negotiation with the Catholic church and solidarnosc and ultimate collapse of the commies....


After years of WW2, millions of dead, invasion from two fronts, no help from the west despite promises by FDR, Churchill (who did far more than any other Allied leader since he saw how much Poles helped the Allies and appreciated it - as seen in his 'square deal for Poland' policies and operation unthinkable which sought to capture Poland from Stalin and let the AK/Cursed Soldiers/Government in Exile rule it) etc, it was simply that Poles gave up and were sick of fighting. They were sick of all the death and destruction around them and simply accepted their fate as a conquered people. They knew further resistance against their new Russian, Jewish, and brainwashed traitor Polish masters would result in death or label of an enemy of the state meaning no work, no food, and your family was screwed. Nonetheless, many patriots didn't give up the fight and it took us 50 years to prevail but we did.

again, this can be discussed in a separate thread... this one is about Polish-German reconciliation, reparations, etc.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

@Atch

All those people were controlled by Moscow/Warsaw Pact/Comecon interests. The only people who fought against Communism like Solidarnosc were outlawed. If someone wanted to make a real change in Poland back in the 50's 60's 70's the only way to do it was to join the Communist party and reform it from within as there were no other legal parties. The people who sought reform were labeled deviationists and often ousted, or even put in prison, exiled, etc.

@Harry
Those two percentages have nothing to do with each other. That'd be like if I compared the percent of Poles who voted for PO to the percentage of Poles who don't go to church and said PO voters are atheists or some other ridiculous claim. There is no proven correlation (which can be determined via graphs and linear regression, line of best fit, etc.). The only way to advance your career or even get a job within your field in many cases was to be a nominal party member. Same thing in Russia. If you were a soldier and weren't a party member they'd send you to the front lines in Afghanistan. If you were a soldier and a party member you got a comfortable posting.

Now let's get back on topic with German reparations...

Study / I'm thinking to study in the Wrocław University of Science and Technology [55]

Ya honestly ditch the idea of studying it in Poland. If you're going to study abroad this is one of those go big or go home scenarios. Either get into a good school in UK US etc or stay in Turkey... And even then it rly won't make much difference in the long run. There's Indian dudes from schools I've never heard of making 40k zl a month (around 10 12k USD) in germany.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

Quite frankly yes it is an insult to poles comparing a puppet system which we were forced to live under (western betrayal) for decades where there was no legal opposition, freedoms were suppressed, priests murdered, no free market etc etc etc to a fair democratic capitalist system with cultural undertones. If you guys dont like it and want to change it become polish citizens and vote in the next elections or become involved with parties and lobby groups. And even if the group(s) you support lose, such is the will of the polish people who together formed a post commie democratic society. Its not perfect as no system is and were still working out the kinks but its far better than anything we had pre 1990

Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]

Also youve already missed the big rally for the most part. Yes values are imcreasing but its far lower and more steady than it use to be. Most the people who bought property and saw its value rise almost exponentially bought sometime between the 90s to a few years after Poland's EU entrance in 2004. Back then you could (say like 2002 for example) you could buy a two hectare or so field w some old commie era 2 story on it outside the city for maybe $40k to $60k and have it worth $1 mln today.

Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]

@orail

I'm not a real estate investor nor a developer. Most of my experience is based off my own properties or those of family and friends. Personally I think there's far better investments that illiquid low yield real estate.

I'm assuming your a foreigner. If you insist on real estate or opening a business you need a polish speaker you can trust to explain the processes costs look over contracts and just generally make sure all your ducks are in order. Cwaniaczki (aka smart a$$e$) prey on people like you and will steal all your money and leave you with little to no recourse of recovering it. Im still fighting a property related case for almost 2 years now which would've been easily settled in my favor in the us otherwise.. And I'm a citizen fluent in polish lol.. Trust me dude unless you're living there full time and plan to regularly manage it and can find a local that you can trust (the hardest part IMO) dont do it.

Study / I'm thinking to study in the Wrocław University of Science and Technology [55]

Let me put it to you this way.. yes and no.. Its more of a case by case basis. Poland is still considered a backwater place by many in w Europe. It's not the same as getting a degree from like UK France or even Germany Netherlands etc. Itd be like if say I interviewed a programmer who finished school in Guatemala mexico el Salvador etc. Most people including myself may question how good the school was but ultimately if he can display he knos c++ ruby html java or whatever he'd get the job. Now if the guy studied medicine and became a doctor in mexico, he'd have to retake the licensing tests to practice medicine elsewhere. Most prestigious hospitals amd networks would prolly be weary of hiring a guy who became a doc in 5 6 years at sum college in mexico or the carribean instead of the usual 8. Nonetheless if he passed the certification he could still land a job being a doctor.

With it and cs its more ability and experience that counts. There's a website called like 4programmer.net (or .com forgot which one) and you can check out salaries where jobs are etc..

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

@Atch

Exactly. Hence a real pole, based on their knowledge of polish culture and history would know the differences between prl and modern (esp post 2010) Poland. That's like comparing commie east Germany to modern day east Germany. Or socialist Hungary to modern day Hungary..

Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]

@orail

Yeah Harry has a good point. Its a pain in the ass evicting someone who isn't paying and getting your money's worth. Plus a student isn't really tied to his or her place. If he owes a significant amount of cash it's easier for him to just throw his clothes and laptop in a bag and leave without paying months of back rent.

Personally, unless you don't have the money to invest in like a nice modern fairly large 4-6-8 or more flat type building and can monitor it and make it nice and large enough to where mostly upper middle class singles or middle/upper middle class families can live I wouldn't do it...

You won't make anything by buying some bedroom sized studio for 200k and trying to rent it out for 2k zloty a month.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


Are you talking about the old school Prussians/Germans in modern day Slovenia?

News / Roman Polanski accused of unlawful sex with a minor [403]

@Joker

Or Israel, where numerous other pedophiles, war criminals, frausters, etc hide out under the protection of the government who refuses to give them up.

Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]

@orail

Things near unis which are generally in the center of cities like Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw, etc. can be found for 200k-400k zloty to purchase but properties have been going up quite a bit and that's pretty entry level for purchasing. You're looking at around 5-5.5k zloty per m2 for a cheaper place and over 7-8k for something in a bit nicer, newer area (average - doesn't always apply). Keep in mind you won't be able to sell it till within 1-3 years without incurring a big tax penalty you'll need to hold onto it I believe a minimum of 5 years. 300k-400k will get you a 70 m2 2 bed, 1 bathroom flat. 200k will get you a tiny studio the size of a bedroom. For 400k zloty you may be able to find a nice home though in a more rural area on the outskirts of town.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


10 year Harvard study shows forced multiculturalism is generally detrimental to a society. I am more than happy to see foreigners from all corners coming to Poland though and learning the language, assimilating, not causing any problems, and contributing to the tax revenue and PL society at large. We don't mind taking in foreigners - we do mind people living off welfare and causing problems with violence, crime, marching with signs that say 'Poland go to hell' or 'Sharia 4 Poland' - that's the kind of stuff we don't want. Even in a small rural town outside of Wroclaw where my aunt is a teacher there is now even Asian kids in the grade school.


I never called someone who isn't supporting the ruling party Pis or otherwise 'not a real Pole.' I said comparing our modern democratic system to that of PRL as offensive to Poles and something that most Poles wouldn't say.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

rsf.org/en/ranking/2016

Michnik crocodile tears included: krakowpost.com/14419/2017/05/poland-press-freedom-index-reporters-without-borders

Poland is 47th - just 2 places below France, 4 places below the US, and far higher than Hungary, Japan, Qatar South Korea, Romania, Croatia, Israel (101st place- ironic for a guy who cries about press freedom in Poland but no mention about Israel - he and his Wyborcza always defends Israel and he personally said in an interview that Palestine-Israel tensions are 'non-issue' and there is no such apartheid of Palestinians)

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


No real Pole compares modern day Poland to PRL within PL - that's an insult to Poles and Poland and they'd know that. Unless by 'people' you mean foreign funded groups like KOD and those who don't give a flying phuck about Poland aside from the zlotys they can change into dollars, euros, and pounds. I don't hear Poles saying that at all. The only criticisms were during the so called 'constitutional crisis' - which Duda vetoe'd 2/3 and during the abortion protest which PiS also listened to the people and cancelled their proposals. The 500 plus, refusal to kow tow to EU, refusal to take in migrants, among other policies were greeted warmly - hence their record support which is double PO's. The only people who are comparing Poland to PRL are traitors like Michnik (he should talk, considering his own family killed AK members). If Poland were really like the PRL leaders they would shut down Wyborcza, confiscate their property, and make Michnik a persona non grata (he lives in NYC anyway). I'm willing to bet that Poles would celebrate if that happened as Poles are more aware than ever who's a patriot and working to help the country and who isn't. Give their fancy apple computers to the poor schools in the east.

Operationally and structurally PRL was commanded and basically formed with Moscow and the loyalists they installed. Same with the other Comecon and Warsaw Pact nations. PiS is loyal to Poles - not some pie in the sky international socialist or a foreign government thousands of kilometers away. If they are managing to reclaim shares in strategic companies, foreign media, etc and putting it back in Polish owned hands while still bringing in loads of new foreign companies that aren't interefering with sensitive sectors nor creating monopolies to bring ever increasing higher paid jobs and decreasing unemployment, I see nothing wrong with that.

The leaders in PRL didn't hold free democratic elections, they confiscated properties, there were no checks on corruption (recently 6 individuals were arrested for demanding 40 mil zl in bribes), they murdered opposition figures, they controlled prices, and they did everything to prevent a democratic society. Once PiS starts killing opposition members and become the only party in the country then the comparison with PRL will be apt. An 'illiberal' Christian oriented democracy is nonetheless a democracy and this party was democratically elected by POLISH CITIZENS. You'll have to deal with it till the next elections, which I predict PiS and the right will win once again.

Poles have gotten a taste of the West and while they may like the luxury brands, higher salaries, etc they're not keen on creating a multicultural society and having their culture diluted and possibly eventually replaced altogether. We have everything we need at home. Money and trade are important to Poles but not at the expense of inviting in terror attacks and having our culture and values changed. Poles had a fascination with the West for nearly a decade following EU entrance. Eventually, they came to the realization that while the economic aspect is great, other aspects aren't really all that. There's pro's and con's like with everything. We've decided what to borrow from the West and what not to. No one ever said we have to accept everything. Since the EU entrance we've found a formula on what we want and what will help the country to grow at a steady pace without leaving too many little guys behind as happened in the years past.

One things for sure - Poles got a taste of the Western oriented politicians who were all to keen on selling out their country to mostly German bidders including strategic areas, inviting in people form ME/Africa per the kowtow to the EU, and even complaining that Polish people don't make enough money - and not in a positive way as in 'how can we make average Polish people wealthier.' We got a taste of the West and we've decided that what kind of identity we want to keep, retain, and perpetuate through the future.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

If you respect a fair democratic system, you will also respect the votes of the Polish people and the democratically elected leaders in parliament, the PM, the President, and so on. These are our decisions. I may disagree with what people in Germany have decided in electing Merkel again, but that's their right. It was a free and democratic election and I respect the voters' decisions. Such is the Democratic system. If we decide to be 'isolated' as you want to call it (despite all economic factors and flood of investments that have come in since 2015), that's fine - it's Polish citizens choice. At the moment, PiS support is at a record high. CBOS has stated 3/4 of Poles reject migration from M.E and Africa. Our government is listening to our people hence their high level of support. Even when they go too far - as with the case of Duda's veto or not going ahead with pushing further abortion control - they listened to the protests and corrected course. I'm confident they will do so again if there are other issues that the Poles don't agree with the governments' decisions. Currently though, the majority of Poles are rejecting migration, they are happy about the 500 zl system, and they are far more supportive of PiS than PO - in fact more than double the amount of support. Add Kukiz 15 to the mix and PiS and Kukiz account for the majority of Poles.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


This isn't the first time we've asked for reparations. As soon as Poland regained her independence and weren't under the heel of the Soviet masters we immediately asked for reparations. In the 90's, Poland didn't have near the economic nor political muscle and alliances it does now. This isn't the first few times we've asked for money for the destruction and death our ancestors faced.


Actually, AfD, Pegida, the Identaires, etc. all have a lot of respect for Poland because we didn't allow our country to be cucked and invaded by Muslims.


Germany wasn't even unified till 27 years ago and PL didn't enter the EU till 2004. Economic relationships are strong, but not political or social. Poles have always viewed Germany as the lesser evil in terms of Germany and Russia. Now Poles are very upset at Germany for putting us into this situation where we never asked to take in refugees but now are being obliged to take them in just because Merkel said come one come all.

The only time relations were good was when certain individuals within the Polish governments were more than happy to sell off parts of our economy off to Germans interested in creating monopolies in a new market. In return, Poles were happy to go to Germany to pick strawberries in the summer. Well, we don't need that anymore. Germany is declining (especially due to Merkel's flagellation of German society with inviting hordes of so called refugees from the 3rd world) while Poland and the V4 is growing more and more.


We're not dependent on favors from any party leader. You're confusing that with commie socialist PRL years.

Rather to keep their culture alive and not be replaced by people from the 3rd world. Poland has shown that we can keep our Christian conservative identity without accepting the destructive multiculturalism of the West. Our economy is growing at a faster pace, our wages are getting higher and higher, our tourism industry is booming, our property values are increasing every year, our unemployment rate is one of the lowest in Europe, our credit is excellent... I could go on and on about all the positive macro and microeconomic factors of Poland's economy. If that's 'isolation' well then let's keep going. Meanwhile every few day I seem to get more and more news on my feed of some company opening up jobs for 3k people here, a new trade deal there, a billion dollar car factory there, Moody's credit rating for PL increased yet again, etc.

Besides, WE - as in WE POLISH CITIZENS get to chose - not others for us. We're not going to return to PRL years where all our economic social and political fate is in the hand of unelected commissars thousands of kilometers away.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

Did you ever consider that perhaps the Poles agree with their policies and vision and that's what they want also for their country? PiS has more support than any other party by far - double than PO.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]


Idk. Maybe we can subtract that land value (despite the fact Poland owned 70k m2 of land in the interwar period than after WW2) from the millions of Poles who were forced into the Red Army, exiled to Siberia, had their land confiscated even if they were broke farmers as owning a small field or a few bags of grain would be enough to get you thrown in prison or even shot, died in Katyn or the gulags, as well as having a puppet government for 50 years with out government in exile living in London or Paris... We'd end up in the positive as you can see..

Actually it wasn't thanks to 'Stalin's altruism' that's for sure. The unfair deal that Poland received was a result of the Yalta Conference - Stalin, FDR, and Churchill with only Churchill truly protesting and demanding a fair deal for Poland, a democracy, fair elections, etc.

Also, France and Russia received German lands as well... As you know, Europe was divided into spheres of influence between the West and USSR with the 50 year cold war resulting as of that, along with 5 decades of puppet regimes for Poland. Yes, we'd love to get reparations for this - subtract the land fine - we'd still be in the black.


Stalin's and the Allies orders based on negotiations in Yalta, Tehran, Paris, Moscow, etc. He demanded 4 million slave laborers. Stalin installed a puppet government in Poland that didn't represent the interests of the Poles at all. The Brits wanted to help Poland, especially Churchill (who was pretty vocal although took little action but at least had the guts and morality to launch Operation Unthinkable - aka 'a square deal for Poland'), but FDR didn't really care (he protested but also took no action) and they agreed to make the already installed commie puppet government more democratic although there was no way to enforce this and of course Stalin didn't care one bit about democracy. Churchill even asked Stalin to hold fair elections in Poland and his operation which unfortunately never took off sought to regain Poland from Stalin.

If the Germans didn't leave they'd end up in gulags (which many did anyway) or would be killed by Polish puppets at the orders of Russians and the UB - who would kill the Poles if they didn't comply. What would you do if someone put a gun in your hand and told you to kill the 'xyz-ist enermy scum in front of you' with a pistol to the back of your head? Many Poles had good relations with their German neighbors. Even the Polish 'volksdeutche' was put into camps or exiled. We were unable to resist this given the grave situation and utter destruction of the country in the years following WW2. Stalin and his bootlickers installed loyalists who killed AK members and other Poles who wanted to have a government that represents the people and not a puppet regime subservient to Moscow and Stalin. Among those killers are people like Michnik's brother, Solomon Morel, and much of the UB and especially their leadership. As the Kruschev thaw was taking hold across the USSR (especially in E Europe like in Hungary, Czechy, PL,, etc) and the crimes of the aforementioned individuals and people like them were exposed as well as the brutality of Stalinism with the result being the Polish October and later the March Events. Poles especially hated the Muscovites - the Polish Jews who left during the war, went to Moscow to kiss Stalin's a$$, and came back with the Red Army to enslave the Polish population and do all those things to Poles and Germans alike. These guys made Gomulka and Co. look like the good guys. Many of them assimilated and pretended to be Polish Catholics so as not to arouse suspicion, some emigrated to the West in the late 60's/70's, some went to Russia or the other parts of the USSR if they were considered loyal enough, etc. It didn't take long for the early Muscovites and Polish UB Jews to realize that even though Stalin earlier ordered them to be cruel to the Poles for being loyal to the AK and government in exile, it didn't necessarily mean they themselves wouldn't share the same fate - death, gulags, or be put in the middle of Siberia with an ax and a pack of matches and told to build a camp.

Anyway we're not talking about the Russians/USSR, we're talking about Germany. But yes, I would like Poland to receive reparations far more than from Germany as they've committed even more crimes against Poland and Poles for a far longer period too. Nonetheless, Poland is focusing on what is feasible at the moment which is obtaining reparations from Germany. Perhaps in the future, rapprochement between Poland and Russia will take place and perhaps reparations for things like Katyn will be part of that discussion. Till that happens, and the ball is in Russia's court to make the move if they want better relations as they can't blame us for being better, the situation between PL and RU will remain regardless of which government in PL is in charge. Perhaps if a more open minded, less 'Russian occupier' focused individual is leading Russia this may occur.

News / Polish-German Reconcilliation Seminar [491]

That's because it's far easier to get Germany, an EU member nation, to pay than Russia. Second, Russia was technically at the end in the Allies despite their double crossings and treachery. It's about what's practical - not what's ideal.

We're talking about WW2 which ended roughly 72 years ago. During WW2 detailed records were kept and there is a lot of evidence - we're not talking about wars and battles from centuries ago where there is little to no physical evidence nor proof of who died and how many, who's homes were destroyed and not, etc. There's no photographs, typed documents, nor concentration camp ruins from battles like the Polish invasion of Moscow or the even the partitions.

It doesn't matter who's 'starting sh!t.' It's quite sad that you wouldn't want the sufferers and their families of WW2 where millions were killed, maimed, expelled, etc within just Poland alone to be given justice and some form of reparations for what they suffered. Other countries and peoples received reparations, we have not. If Germany gave Poles even half of what they gave to the Jews and Israel we'd be more than happy with that. I myself wouldn't get a penny and nor would anyone aside from maybe a few very old relatives and their descendants - nonetheless its the principle of justice and paying for wrongs. We only want what is fair and what others have already received and are continuing to receive. Germany just got done paying back their WW1 reparations a few years ago. Now that they're done with those they can start focusing on making up the remainder to the WW2 sufferers. Japan did the right thing to Korea, Germany did the right thing to the Jews, Greeks, etc. Now it's time they do the same to Poles.

Real Estate / BEST Poland's city to Invest in?? Warsaw, Wroclaw, Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk or...? [34]

@orail

Depends on city, location within the city/suburbs, type of property (residential - what kind of residential? commercial, agricultural, etc.), size, budget, bed/bath count, new/old, remodeled or not, etc. There's a hundred factors when it comes to just residential alone.

It seems you're looking mostly at residential. In Wroclaw a cheaper place will cost 2-2.5k zloty (perhaps you can find one even a tad lower) to rent, a mid to fairly large 80-100+ m2 apartment for 3.5k-5k and around 7k for a larger 3 bed/2 bath on an upper floor, corner, in a hot area and nicer larger 1k+ m2 homes from 6k for like a vacation home or rural area to 8k, 10k, 20k zloty plus with everything in between in cities. There are homes for sale ranging from 400k zloty for a nice newly built town house on the outskirts in a development to even several million Euro for like a former castle or historic place or simply a large newly built home. One condo I really liked was in Skytower (the hotel I stay at when I'm staying in downtown Wroclaw) was 1.2mln zloty for somethink like 70-75 sq m2 or so with 500 zloty association fee. If you have the money to buy the land and invest I'd recommend a smallish (maybe like 6-12 unit)apartment/condo building that's a tad bit outside the city so you can take advantage of the cheaper land but still close enough to get to the downtown with a 10-20 min drive (again depending on city and all). You'll rent or sell them all out in no time.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend trying to flip a house or something like that unless you can buy it super cheap and have the knowhow to fix it up.