Language / będzie potrafił? [34]

The situation around the verb potrafić is rather complex. Here what the linguistic advisor at PWN says about it:
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Question: Dlaczego w Wielkim słowniku poprawnej polszczyzny PWN hasło potrafić jest opatrzone dwoma kwalifikatorami: dk. albo ndk.? Czy to możliwe, by jeden czasownik miał dwa aspekty? Oraz dlaczego nie zaleca się analitycznej formy czasu przyszłego: będę potrafił?

Answer: "Potrafić" to właściwie czasownik dokonany, „Nie wiem, czy potrafię” znaczy 'Nie wiem, czy mi się uda'. Jako wyłącznie dokonany figuruje on w słowniku Lindego (jego niedokonany odpowiednik podany tam to "potrafiać", dziś nie używany). W słowniku Doroszewskiego informacja o aspekcie czasownika potrafić ma postać „dk (i ndk)” i zasadniczo w takim kształcie można by ją powtarzać do dziś. Zdania takie ja przytoczone na początku tej porady można wprawdzie interpretować współcześnie na dwa sposoby, jako zawierające czasownik dokonany albo niedokonany, ale imiesłów przymiotnikowy czynny (potrafiący) i imiesłów przysłówkowy współczesny (potrafiąc) rażą nieporadnością, choć przecież formy takie są właściwe czasownikom niedokonanym. Także czas przyszły złożony, właściwy czasownikom niedokonanym, budzi wątpliwości [tzn. forma "będę potrafił - przypis mój], nie bez powodu więc ostrzega przed nimi słownik poprawnej polszczyzny. Dla równowagi można jednak zanotować, że imiesłowu potrafiwszy też nie ma w użyciu, choć tego rodzaju imiesłowy, tzw. przysłówkowe uprzednie, są właściwe czasownikom dokonanym.

Czasowników dwuaspektowych w polszczyźnie jest sporo, ale są to przeważnie wyrazy obcego pochodzenia (np. aresztować, ekspediować), a potrafić jest na ich tle wyjątkiem. Innym rodzimym wyjątkiem jest cisnąć, najpierw używane w znaczeniu 'uwierać', a potem też 'rzucić', tu jednak, jak widać, z różnicą aspektu związana jest wyraźnie różnica znaczenia, podczas gdy w wypadku czasownika potrafić różnica znaczeń jest systemowa i przewidywalna, paralelna do różnicy aspektów.

— Mirosław Bańko, PWN

Language / będzie potrafił? [34]


I would agree with that. In the past tense the sentence "Potrafiłem wejść na drzewo" sounds to me as stating a completed action. Curiously enough, the phrase "Będę potrafił wejść na drzewo" sounds to me as such as well, although formally the verb takes the imperfective aspect.

Language / Can you recognise the nationality of foreign Polish speakers by their accent? [43]


There is something in it. Having followed the programme "Europa da się lubić" on Polish TV presenting European people of different nationalities for several months, I could easily tell who was French and who was German, but the English-speaking Brits tended to have some "unspecified" accent while speaking Polish. Contrary to the Brits, it is easy to tell who is American.

Language / Ile by nie było to i tak jest za mało [26]


That's not bad, isn't it ...


In my view, you should try to take a course in phonetics or at least study a book on Polish phonetics (I one had one titled "Fonologia i fonetyka polska") where you can read the formal descriptions of numerous Polish consonants (s, c, ś, ć, sz, cz, dz, dż, dź, szcz, z, ż, ź) and how to distinguish between them. Then, you should have an opportunity to first listen to various Polish dialogs several times before following them in reading the transcripts of the same dialogs.

Language / Ile by nie było to i tak jest za mało [26]

1. Your statement about learning Polish sounds petty desperate.
2. Are you totally immersed in the language or do you constantly switch from English (or Swedish) to Polish? Total immersion lasting at least for half a year (I suppose you live in Poland now) without any (or as little as possible) interference from another language could be vital for you. The costant changing of languages may be quite "destructive" for your Polish. I am able to immerse myself into English within two hours at an international confrence at Brussels, while I was not able to immerse into it during a three-week long stay in England with my wife because of the need to translate into Polish for her, thus the need to change languages constantly.

3.


Yes, it would, but "Ile nie byłoby, jest [preferably: będzie] za mało" will sound much better.

Language / Ile by nie było to i tak jest za mało [26]

Now I see what you mean. As your initial translation ("No matter how much, it's always too little") renders the sense of this sentence perfectly, the problem was why this particular choice of words in Polish.

First of all, leaving out the negation particle nie from this sentence doesn't change the meaning of it at all. The negation particle "nie" strenghtens the initial clause and also gives a better vocal rythm to the entire phrase (notice the negation in the English clause as well!).

The particle by is a flying one, so you might not have been able to assign it instantly to the verb było (Ile tego nie byłoby, ...).

"To i tak" can also be ommitted, so the phrase may sound: Ile by nie było, jest (or: będzie) tego za mało. "To i tak (or: "i tak" alone) strenghtens the final clause quite remarkably.

Another form of this sentence might be: 'Choćby nie wiem ile by tego było, to i tak będzie za mało'. Here the negation particle 'nie' moves onto the verb "wiedzieć".

Now I have another explanation. What makes the sentence unclear for non-native speakers of Polish is the absence of the principal clause, whereas the subordinate clause is still there. In fact, this sentence should be: "Nieważne / nie ma znaczenia / Nie jest istotne [principal clause], ile by było [subordinate clause], i tak jest za mało."

The first clause matches the English "No matter, ...", while the second clause matches the English "... , how much (it is), ". With the disappearance of the first clause, the sense may indeed seem unclear. The missing principal cause is like a "black hole" devouring the sense of the phrase in the eyes of a foreign speaker. We, the native speakers of Polish, having been used to such "black holes", don't even notice they are there which is why I was't able to tell the sensible explanation at once.

By explaining it this way, the abundant "nie" in the existing subordinate clause can easily be re-found in the "nie" of the non-existing (or understood) principal clause:

Nie jest istotne, ile by było, i tak jest za mało ---> [...], Ile by nie było, to i tak jest za mało.

In fact, the nie of the subordinate clause is the only trace of the entire principal clause which has dissappeared. This is exactly the same "nie" which can be found in the English principal clause "No matter how much it is, ..." of your translation.

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Thanks for your inquisitive questions that made me realize the existence of these truly hidden phrases in the Polish language.

Language / Ile by nie było to i tak jest za mało [26]

Will adding the direct object 'it=to' (in genetive 'tego') make things clearer for you?

Ile by [tego] nie było, to i tak jest [tego] za mało.

An assumptive or understood direct object is present in the structure of this sentence.

Language / to go s/where [13]


This has been disscused countless times on the PF. For the sake of clarity, I suggest to treat 'oboje' as the basic form which applies to adult couples of both sexes, to couples of children and to the nouns without the plural form (skrzypce, drzwi, sanie etc.). Then, if you talk about men, you should think of the 'obaj' form (obaj żołnierze, obaj chłopcy); if you think about masculine nouns except men and neutral nouns, you should choose the form 'oba' (oba psy, oba słonie, oba biurka, oba pokoje, oba okna); if you talk about feminine nouns you should use 'obie' (obie panie, obie żyrafy, obie szafy).

Language / Difference between Polska & Polsce? [26]


Still, your explanation was incomplete as you should have said "whilst 'Polsce' is celownik and miejscownik'. In my view you should have added that as the original poster's examples in his next questions were:


and

Language / Difference between Polska & Polsce? [26]


I don't think anyone would be interested.

Anyway, either of you is wrong here. In the expression "w Polsce", it is not celownik which is being used, it is the case called miejscownik (locative). Actually, the celownik is the same as the miejscownik in the case of the noun 'Polska'. To detect which case is being used in 'w Polsce' you have to replace 'Polska' with another noun for which both cases take different forms, for example - Liban: 'przyglądam się Libanowi' (celownik) versus 'Byłem w Libanie' (miejscownik).

News / Poland uninterested in EU reform [5]


I think this statement needs some clarifacation. It sounds as if Danuta Huebner has no competence at all, but got the job by pure chance.


Does that mean the UK prime minister earns so little, or the top 2000 EU official earn so much? Could you give any figures?

Travel / Ultra cheap trains in Polish trains [8]

You should explain what kind of tariff it was. I went to Kraków by train about three months ago and I paid 100 zł each way.

Life / Warsaw public transport is not so bad at all [14]

I'm sure it will take many decades to achieve that. As you probably know, Jews and Freemasons conspire against it all the time, Germans do not send enough of Riechseuros to finance it, and Serbs... what the hell Serbs are doing to slow it down?

Life / Warsaw public transport is not so bad at all [14]


Do you think Jews/Freemasons/Serbs/Germans use the metro in Warsaw as well? I think Jews are very rich, so they take taxis; Freemasons do not move at all - they only conspire in their dens; don't know about Serbs; Germans prefer trams and buses.

News / Komorowski, acting president, is a shower! [51]


You are forgetting that there are two rounds of presidential election in Poland. What you say is true of the second round, but in the first round you may vote with your heart, with no need to bother about curbing anyone.

UK, Ireland / Poles living in the UK returning home or not? [63]

Four million unemployed people in the UK? That reminds me of a Mrs. Tharcher's "party political broadcast" in the satirical Weekending programme on BBC4 in 1981:

- "We never said things would be easy. Of course, we never said we'd cause a recession and three million unemployed! [...] But look, let's not kid ourselves; we're all in the same boat - the Titanic!"

And it seems the record has been improved of one million by now! So let's not kid ourselves. The Polish should leave the sinking boat of Britain - the Titanic, as the Weekending Mrs T. bluntly put it some 30 years ago... and go back home!

[- "We in the Conservative Party may be wrong... but we are wrong with so much more courage that any other party. Bravery is a great attribute and thank God my ministers don't have it!"]

Language / 'jestem po weselu' [8]

"Jestem po weselu" could be a good example of a Polish "Present Perfect" tense. As such one doesn't exist in Polish, speakers 'invent' it in situations where it is desired. The phrase uses the present tense verbe 'jestem' and combines it with the preposition of time 'po'. Such a sentence matches almost perfectly the English 'I've been to a wedding', much better than do sentences like 'Wróciłem z wesela' or 'Byłem na weselu'.

Another example could be: 'Jesteśmy już po dwóch dużych piwach', stressing the effect of us having just drunk two beers, so the English equivalent: 'We have had ...' is something that immediately comes to mind.

Other uses of this "Present Perfect" type (colloquial as they are) might be: 'Mamy już za sobą dwie/trzy strzelone bramki' or 'To kolokwium mam zaliczone' or 'Mam zdany ten egzamin''.

Language / 'jestem po weselu' [8]

It is colloquial, frequent and natural. In standard (or written) Polish it should be "byłem na weselu' or 'wróciłem z wesela'.

Language / Nazwy mieszkanców - the names of a city/country residents in Polish [14]

They who live in Koło, I would call them:
'zakręceni Kolanie' or 'skołowani Kolanie'.

When they're having a partiularly good time, they may be called 'rozkręceni Kolanie'. But locals from neighbouring towns and villiges would perhaps call them 'Kolaki' ('Kolak' in singular).

Po polsku / informacje na temat pracy w olsztyn [3]

Ogólnie, sytuacja na rynku pracy w woj. warmińsko-mazurskim jest trudna. Jest to województwo, gdzie stopa bezrobocia należy do najwyższych w kraju (o ile nie jest najwyższa w kraju). Nie oznacza to, że pracy dostać nie można. Dobry, uczciwy i solidny pracownik fizyczny lub budowlaniec (zwłaszcza taki, który nie zagląda zbyt często do kieliszka) albo sprzedawca ma szanse prędzej czy później znaleźć pracę. Czy dobrze płatną? - to już całkiem inna sprawa.

Language / Polish and other slavic language differences [60]

My God! Polabian has been extinct for about two centuries now!

Upper Sorbian is closer to Czech, whereas Lower Sorbian is closer to Polish.

Czech and Slovak would be extremely difficult to distinguish for me, but I have the impression that some of the Slovak vocabulary is closer to Polish than the matching part of this vocabulary in Czech. I think that Slovak doesn't have the diacritical marks in the shape of unfilled little circles.

Croatian and Serbian will be very difficult to distinguish between them if the samples are written with the same alphabet.

Belorussian has quite a number of words imported from Polish.

Language / Nazwy mieszkanców - the names of a city/country residents in Polish [14]


This is a rather difficult question. As far as I know there isn't any rules, we just say what is phonetically convenient. For many names there may be two versions like, for example, for the inhabitant of Warsaw: you may call him 'warszawiak', and it is common as in the saying 'nie masz cwaniaka nad warszawiaka'; you may also hear the form 'warszawianin/ warszawianka' which is perhaps a little more formal.

For the names you asked:
Kraków - krakowianin, krakowiak / krakowianka
£ódź - łodzianin / łodzianka [we would not say 'łodziak']
Białystok - białostoczanin / białostoczanka

Most commonly, you use the -anin ending (gdańszczanin, szczecinianin, gdynianin), sometimes you use -iak more often than -anin (poznaniak vs. poznanianin).

Life / Electricity bill 1400zlt 5 months. [18]


I think it's not right. Either the meter may not be operating properly or someone else apart from you may be connected to it. Try to check the meter when every electric device at your flat is switched off.

Work / What jobs pay 10,000 zlotych per month? and Where can i find one? :o) [101]

Fantastic story, TransAtlantic (btw, isn't it the title of one of the books by Witold Gombrowicz). Good to have people on the forum who see things in proper light. Someone is asking: 'what jobs pay 10,000 zlotych per month? and where can i find one?' while saying nothing about his/her qualifications.

News / Warsaw a "big winner" in city life quality index [26]


Not quite. In a number of country dialects of Polish, 'Polak' would be said 'Polok', so the Chicago people of that Polish descent would spell it 'Pollock' in English.

History / What do Polish people think about Belorussians? [38]


Belarus is 'White Ruthenia', not 'White Russia', but many people confuse that. Still, if you say that the term 'Belarus' was invented by the Russians in the 18th century, what about the areas of 'Red Ruthenia' (Ruś Czerwona) [in Ukraine], 'Black Ruthenia' (Ruś Czarna) as well as 'White Ruthenia' (Ruś Biała) that existed well before Cathrine II had swallowed almost the whole of the GDL in her unquenched imperial appetite for new territories?

Law / EU citizen residency certificate to live in Poland [34]

SeanBM
I think it is the case - ZUS acts as the intermediate between accounts. The 9% of the employee's gross personal income forming the health insurance sum is financed as follows: 7,75% of it is deducted from your PIT and the remaining 1,25% is deducted from your net personal income.

therobside
You can either pay an insurance to the NFZ, or you can buy an insurance with a private company.

Law / EU citizen residency certificate to live in Poland [34]


You should not confound the ZUS with health insurance. These are separate things. ZUS, as its name indicates - Zakład Ubezpieczeń Społecznych - deals with social security, that is with your pension and the like, whereas the cost of your health insurance (ubezpieczenie zdrowotne) is deducted from your salary to the account of NFZ - Narodowy Fundusz Zdrowia.

History / What do Polish people think about Belorussians? [38]

As usual, history plays an important part here. Indeed, there is nothing about Russia in the opening post of Białorusin, yet Sasha says:


"I hate Russians" and "to attract the Poles" are crucial phrases here. So let's remind everyone that the teritory of today's Belarus had never been subjected to Russian rule until 1772, that is the year of the first partition of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Until Belarus became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, it was comprised of independent principalities. In fact, Belarus had been remaining part of the Grand Duchy ever after, until the 3rd of May Constitution abandoned the formal administrative duality between the Kingdom of Poland (called the Crown) and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in 1791.

As a result of adopting this Constitution, a war broke out between Russia and the Commonwealth in 1792, the war in which the Commonwealth was defeated, the Constitution abandoned, and another part of Belarus was "handed over" to Russia as a result of the second partition. The remainder of the country (of 215.000 sq. m.) might have existed to the era of Napoleonic wars, had it not been for the Uprising of 1794 led by Tadeusz Kosciuszko, born in Mereczowszczyzna on the territory of Belarus, a veteran of the American Revolutionary War, which led to the third and final partition of the Commonwealth in 1795. Thus the remaining part of Belarus became Russian.

Since then, the Russians seem to think that Belarus was theirs since the beginning of time. In reality, the Belarussian language was using the Latin alphabet until the Cyrilic alphabet was imposed on them by the Russians. The Belarussian language was also the official language of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania until Polish replaced it in that role in 1697.

News / Poland gets a little bigger:) [82]

What do you mean by "other states"? The only one I can think of in terms of "Soviet puppets" is Romania. But then you should have written "unlike the only one ..." which makes a big difference when it comes to people like you who are extremely precise about dates and facts ...