Language / Czech language sounds like baby talk to most Poles. Similarities? [222]

Fully agree with you, Magdalena. Polish people do not even try to get to know the Czech history and culture better and deeper. They just feed themselves with stereotypes and laugh at language differences ['To je laska nebeska'] or make jokes constructing the supposed Czech words as in this one "- What is 'pigeon' in Czech? - 'Dachovy obsryvacz'. Megalomaniacal and simply disgusting!

Travel / Zakopane - Orla perc [3]

It is very dangerous to traverse by bad weather, indeed. I did it once and only to the middle of it which was 'Przełęcz Kozia'. As it was in April, the snow and ice had been still covering some of the holders for the hands. I may well say I had nearly lost my life by getting into a risky manouver to pass on without the help of the holders. Basically, the Orla Perć is like the High Alps and the views from it are splendid.

News / Over 2 million Poles drowning in debt [19]


I haven't noticed he has gone so far up. I know he claims that property prices are in Poland have rocketed and stay as such ever since. If he thinks that Poland has the worst of everything, there must surely be some personal reason for it.

He is as good to sticking to facts as once British Prime Minister Thatcher was in a comedy radio broadcast:
- Prime Minister, why sell off North Sea Oil?
- Gentelmen, we've been through this before and you know the answer: nationalised industries do not make money!
- But this one does!
- Precisely! So it can't be a true nationalised industry which is why I'm selling it off ...

News / Over 2 million Poles drowning in debt [19]


That says nothing of the problem? How much is it for one indebted person? Short-term debt including ceredit-card debt constitutes what part of it? If someone who is on the start with his 30-year mortgage debt has run into trouble, do they count the whole of this debt into your "total arrears amounting to 30.9 bilion zloty"?

Life / Looking for someone in Poland who has stolen from me. [11]


The point is the Nuclear Chemistry Faculty at the University of Warsaw, and not such a faculty anywhere else in Poland.

Life / Looking for someone in Poland who has stolen from me. [11]

I've just checked and seen only 'chemistry', and not 'nuclear chemistry'.

Life / Looking for someone in Poland who has stolen from me. [11]

You've got their address - you can find the couple at this address. Why don't you go to the police with the man's photo and his address at hand.

Nuclear chemistry at Warsaw University?

News / Tusk drops Chinese COVEC building the A2 motorway in Poland [83]

Harry

No, no chance at all. People who read post #33:


... and don't try to read the neighbouring post #35:


... before writing their own post #58:


should keep themselves out of a stock market at all.

News / Conservative-liberalism (Laissez-faire liberalism), another utopia for Poland? [99]


Yes, you are right. Sorry about my mistake. The only thing I can perhaps say in my defence is that short posts are better than long ones ;-).

News / Conservative-liberalism (Laissez-faire liberalism), another utopia for Poland? [99]


Yes, this is a formidable suggestion for all our disabled, the mentally-handicapped or the like.


Yes, he is just what he should be for UPR followers. On top of that, Gen. Pinochet ordered throwing out his political opponents of airplanes flying over the ocen. Janusz Korwin-Mikke, the clown who has been running for presidency in Poland every time such an election was held, or another clown of the same party, Stanislaw Michalkiewicz, if I remember his name well, a dedicated anti-semite who has recently been a regular invité to Radio Maryja where he was merciless towards Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexually agressing a black lady room-attendent in a New York hotel, but never said a word on Catholic priest molestiing children everywhere in the Western world; the two of them should certainly be chosen as heros for our modern and crazy times.

Welcome to the Club of the Insane Saints, Antoś. Wouldn't it better for you to go back to playing your guitar altogether?

Po polsku / Amerykańskie chamstwo? [133]


Tutaj bym się zgodził tylko z jednym: ten facet ma rzeczywiście posturę w kształcie piłki nożnej. Ale poza tym, Wojciech Mann [absolwent filologii angielskiej Uniwersytetu Warszawskiego], jest człowiekiem obdarzonym niezwykle finezyjnym poczuciem humoru i oznacza się bardzo celnym dowcipem. Co do części "muzycznej" - nie wypowiadam się; nie słucham zbyt często muzyki młodzieżowej w radiu, natomiast w telewizji jego sposób prowadzenia programu "Szansa na sukces", który to program oglądam wyrywkowo, raczej mi odpowiada.

Co do meritum tego wątku, czyli "chamstwa po amerykańsku", wydaje mi się że to pojęcie funkcjonowało bardziej w czasach PRL-u niż obecnie, i w dodatku w szerokim kontekście ideologicznego obrzydzania Polakom Ameryki przez komunistyczną propagandę. Dobrze ujął to zjawisko pewien satyryk, który przedrzeźniając tezy owej propagandy grzmiał kiedyś groźnie: "W Polsce nie powinno się słuchać jazzu ['dżaaazu']; od jazzu mdli i dostaje się kolki w żołądku". Wszyscy się śmieli do rozpuku.

Nawet jednak wtedy, termin "chamstwo" w odniesieniu do amerykańskości raczej nie występował. Jest on o wiele za mocny, zatem całkowicie nieadekwatny na stereotypowe określenie amerykańskiego 'głośnego i ostentacyjnego zachowania'. Należałoby raczej mówić o "amerykańskim nieokrzesaniu".

News / Tusk drops Chinese COVEC building the A2 motorway in Poland [83]


Sorry, my mistake about the date. It is the edition of Friday the 3rd of June.

Main article of the front page: "Gorzej, drożej, później".
Editorial comment of the second page: "Jak się pozbyć Chińczyka".
Three articles of the fourth page of the economic section:
1. "Sypie się plan budowy dróg na Euro 2012".
2. "Radość z oszczędzania była przedwczesna".
3. "Cena nie będzie decydować o wszystkim?"

News / Tusk drops Chinese COVEC building the A2 motorway in Poland [83]


Rather than explaining things to others, you are diffusing a party political broadcast on behalf of the PiS party here on the Polish Forum. All the construction works on motorways that have run into trouble by now, had their planned budgets almost twice as big as the actual sums agreed by the building consortiums. The bidding regulations in Poland which go back beyond the time that PO came to power favour strongly the price as a main winning criterion. Almost every government would be tempted to accept a price which is only half the money put aside for the purpose. If you are tempted to claim that it is only the government of PO which is so stupid to accept such offers, I shall remind you that in the course the 19th century in Germany a similar rule had once led to the collapse of a newly erected bridge which had been built by the company who ofered the lowest price in the bidding. The choice of the construction company solely on the basis of bidding price has therefore been forbidden in Germany ever since.

You may read further details on the issue in a paper which is a dedicated supporter of PiS and dedicated opponent of PO, the "Rzeczpospolita" daily - edition of Friday the 22th June of 2011.

Language / The differences between these words: Oni plywaja / plyna / biegaja /biegna /chodza /ida [18]


The above, I think, isn't the essence of the problem. The essence of the problem is clearly intention and directionality. If someone says "biegają wokół stadionu", it implies 'running without any real purpose, indeed", so they may run / may be running the stadium once, twice or half-round. If someone says: "biegną wokół stadionu", it implies that people who do / are doing it most probably act on specific purspose which may either be achieving one round [or precisely two or precisely three of them] or measure the time of their round[s].

If I re-write the above sentence as "Dwa razy w tygodniu biegną 400 metrów na czas", you wouldn't be able to tell that it sounds awkward or doesn't feel good.

Language / The differences between these words: Oni plywaja / plyna / biegaja /biegna /chodza /ida [18]

I think Rosetta is right with this intention of directionality. One can easily imagine sentences like: 'Codzienne przed kolacją idą na trening' or 'Codziennie po obiedzie płyną na drugi brzeg jeziora i z powrotem' or 'Dwa razy w tygodniu biegną wokół stadionu'.

Language / The verb "to stay" [6]

You can say, for example, 'Zostałem w tym hotelu na dłużej/przez dwa tygodnie', this being the equivalent of 'Zatrzymałem się w tym hotelu na dłużej/przez dwa tygodnie'. As explained above, such "hotel context" with the verb 'zostałem' not followed by any specification of time suggests that you have been staying at the hotel all the time, but setting a time limit to the verb 'zostać' makes the usage of this verb perfectly justified here.

A widespread use of the verb 'stanąć' in regard to a stay in a hotel or a similar establishment could be observed throughout the whole of 19th century and earlier. People would typically say at that former time: 'Stanąłem w hotelu Saskim w Warszawie'; the modern use of this context requires the verb "zatrzymać się" in place of "stanąć", however.

Law / Got Polish citizenship, now I need a Pesel and passport [26]

Pan, in your profile, you answer 'Czy znasz jezyk polski?' question by saying: "very less". Is it the "english net language" that you've grown up with and I haven't, or is it just a mistake? I'm asking out of curosity.

edit: The mods have erased part of the topic in the meanwhile. Impossible to carry on any normal conversation. God bless the mods [and save the Queen, bien sûr]!

Language / Need advice on how to improve Polish language skills [134]


In my view this is not the case. In most cases 'ci' doesn't make a syllable : in 'ciast-ko', 'cio-cia', 'cie-mię-ga', 'cias-ny', it is the vowel after 'ci' that makes a syllable; I've bolded this vowel out. In other words, you could have spelled the above words as ća-stko, ćo-ća, će-mią-ga, ća-sny and you would have exactly the same syllables without having any 'ci' in them.

On the other hand, the group 'ci' followed by a consonant does make a syllable since it has 'i' pronounced as 'i' as well as the 'i' softens the preceding consonant [called it the double role of 'i' in my previous post] : the word 'ci-si' has two such syllables. You could have written it as 'ći-śi', for example; it is only a matter of the writing standard set in the past ages that we spell them this way rather than the other way today.

Language / Need advice on how to improve Polish language skills [134]


The 'i' serves as a softening sign for the preceding consonant. It says 'prounounce the consonant which is before me softly': 'ci-a-s-t-k-o = ćastko'. If you have to pronounce the soft c, and a consonant or nothing else follows, you have to mark it with the mark of softness: ćpać, zięć.

The combination 'ci' followed by a vowel is pecular and defies the above rule. In the example "słońce-słonice", a consonant follows the group 'ni', so the 'i' here does serve as a softening sign [as the 'i' in ciastko' in which the 'ci' group is followed by a vowel] as well as it serves as an independent sound at the same time. So, the 'i' plays a double role here; it tells us to pronounce the preceding 'n' softly and we pronounce the sound 'i' itself as well. Indeed, to make life easier for the learners of Polish, the word should in fact have been written as 'słońice'.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Stop using this p-a-t-r-o-n-i-s-i-n-g tone of yours towards other people on the forum! Everyone knows that your English is excellent and it would be an uneven fight to challenge it. Also, stop telling other people that their English is very good; they just know that it is worse than yours.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


This seems to me a very good comparison. But I would go on to say that the difference trz/cz can even be heard in fast speech. As 'trz' can be met in some other frequent words like 'trzeba', I'm pretty sure that a native speaker would quickly realize the difference if another native speaker started to pronounce it as 'czeba' in a regular way in a fast speech even.

That reminds me of an unforgetable sketch, a 'telefoniczny szmonces', by Dziewoński and Michnikowski, the subject of which was Polish as spoken by the Jewish people of Poland before 1939. When the caller asks the operator to put him through, he says:

- Proszę mnie połączyć z numerem 33 [czydzieści czy]. (the audience laughs at the use of 'cz' instead of 'trz')
- [operarator says something to him]
- Mój numer, słodziutka? 333 [czysta czydzieści czy]. (the audience laughs again)
- ...Kuba?
- Jaki Kuba?
- Goldberg!
- A jeżeli Kuba, to kto mówi?
- Ale czy to Kuba, bo jak nie Kuba, to moje nazwisko nic Pana nie powie ... (the audience laughs at the wrong use of 'Pan-a' here)

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


This a very good example showing that 'grz' is prounounced identically to 'kż'. It is enough to touch your own throat while saying "w łagrze" after having said "także" to start believing in "udźwięcznienie wsteczne" in Polish!


I don't quite get whether you say they are identical or different?
Obviously they are different. But they used to sound identical in the pronounciation of my teacher who came from the region of Poznań to teach geography at a 'liceum' near Warsaw. I remember thinking it was funny just as a German girl thought it "komisch" when she saw "Kassa" rather than "Kasse" while on her winter holidays in Austria [a shot from the TV language course produced by a German television channel; a 12-year-old German girl exclaims: "Wie komisch!" on hearing this pronounciation supported by such a writing].

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


These opinions are really amazing. I wonder who in Warsaw thinks that we are the "real" Poland. The "funny dialect" of Warsaw, as you call it, had virtually died out with the end of the Second World War after the city and its people had undergone the biggest destruction in its whole history.

The Mazovian dialect had always been mocked of by the rest of the country until the end of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1795. The Warsaw city dialect had developed in the course of the 19th century and, based on the local dialect, had quite a number of Russian imports in it. The Polish, as we speak it today in cities and towns, is largely universal across the country and, historically speaking, is based on the dialect of Małopolska with some important influences from the dialect of Wielkopolska.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


How could you have noticed it, if you've never been to Poland?

News / Row over status of Poles in Germany sours relations [176]


I would not call these names "Polish" by any means, but Slavic ones. They were the names given by the Slavic western tribes who politcally had never assocciated themselves with Poland, but on the contrary used to regularly confront Polish forces advancing against them as well as fighting all this time with Germany.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


On a side note: the name Sukiennice was formed on the noun 'sukno' which doesn't exist in contemporary Polish and which - as far as I can say - meant exactly what the English 'cloth' means. The word has been 'preserved', however, in the word 'suknia', which has now a much narrower meaning, although it used to have a broader meaning before, as shown in the saying "Nie suknia [today we say: szata/ubiór] zdobi człowieka". The evolution has been therefore: sukno [cloth] --> suknia [dress in general sense] --> suknia/sukienka [skirt].

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]



I happened to visit Kraków, including Kazimierz, in a five day stay in March. In the English-language guide-book I had bought there, they have "Cloth Hall" for Sukiennice.


Kazimierz is quite an interesting place. A very good bookstore in one of the former synagogues there where I came across a few books [in Polish only, however] giving very moving accounts of Jewish life in provincial Poland before and during the WWII. My biggest surprise in Kazimierz, however, was when I saw a young Jewish priest in his very religious dress in one of the other synagogues, so authenticly Jewish that I thought the man had just come from Israel. But his unchallenged Polish - the moment he started to speak - and the number plates of his car undoubtedly gave him away as a Polish national living in Kraków. Another interesting place in Kazimierz to realize the continuing Jewish presence there is the Jewish cemetery on the outskirts of the district where you can find contemporary tombs with inscriptions both in Hebrew and Polish. Overall, there are approximately about 700 people of Jewish origin living in Kraków at the moment, most of them in the said district.

Language / Państwo macie ..., pan masz ... [5]


Despite the common and increasing use of forms like "Państwo macie/Państwo tutaj widzicie/Państwo możecie kupić tutaj wiele produktów", these are evidently wrong and should be avoided. Forms like "Pan nie umiesz naprawić kranu/Pan jesteś głupiec i matoł" are wrong but common among some less well educated people and are often heard "in the street".

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Neither do I.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


According to the rule, they have to be declined [and the rule is "decline whatever is possible to be declined"]. Many of their 'owners' insist, however, that they are not. The most outstanding of those who insist his surname to remain undeclined is a popular PiS politician, Zbigniew Ziobro.