Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]


Doesn't compare to this:

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Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]


In Poland you buy live fish in the supermarket, I heard... :)


I ate a lot of fish 'n' chips in my life, so yes.

Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]

Fishing is very popular here, Pawian, and there's nothing better than fresh salmon or trout from a clear mountain stream. But you live in Poland and eat bottom feeders from muddy ponds, so how would you know ... :) (I'm kidding!)

Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]


If I want fresh fish, I hop in the car, drive half an hour and catch it myself. ;)

Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]

They sell live fish for aquariums here, not for your bath tub at home... :)

Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]


In the US, carp is mostly considered a junk fish. The Americans prefer salmon, mahi mahi and trout instead.

News / Polish people's criticism of European Union [104]

Polish politicians knew well in advance that all those EU subsidies come with strings attached. You took the money, so don't complain. Oh, and welcome to the EU... :)

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]

Okay, then tell me what sources YOU compared to come to the conclusion that "Poles are most objective in their dealing with history". Honest question. A few examples will do.

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]


Okay, then I apologize. I misunderstood what you were saying.

Polish sources are increasingly available in English though, and have often been translated into German as well. So oftentimes you don't need Polish anymore to compare how versions of history differ from country from country. "Poles are most objective in their dealing with history" is only true in my eyes if you mean Poles talking about the Polish version of history. You could say the same about the Germans dealing with their version of history, or the Brits dealing with theirs. There are always different points of view when it comes to certain historic events, and the Polish one is no better or more objective than any others'.

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]

Aaaah, I see ... a Pole can always trust his (ex commie) history teacher to tell him the truth, while everybody else has to live with the fact that they've got taught a distorted version of the same history. Yup, that must be it... :)

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]


I very much doubt that. Many Poles seem to be quite knowledgeable when it comes to the history of their country, but I have to ask where this knowledge is coming from. The schools ... which get their orders from the government ... which is run by politicians ... who are controlled by ... ? The historical knowledge the majority of Polish people have is mostly based on what the official line of the government demands. Every country does that, no doubt, but that doesn't mean that the version of history that is taught in the schools is always the correct one.


LOL!

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]


Why? Do Poles have a monopoly on the "correct" version of Polish history? They shared the land with other ethnicities for a very long time. Is anything that is published outside of Poland automatically a lie, Nazi propaganda or anti-Polish in your eyes?

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


You don't know the German lefties and their favorite weapon, the "Nazikeule"... :)


chronicle.com/forums/index.php?topic=63149.0%3Bwap2
"Under those circumstances of institutionalised discrimination against foreign parents, it's natural to question whether it applies to other decisions."


According to Wikipedia, it has. All I heard is that Sarrazin seem to have stated some incovenient truths that no one in the German political scene was willing to say openly.

There are some interesting points made here (which is also an indirect description of the Nazikeule mentioned above):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_schafft_sich_ab#Statements_of_support


Okay, I tried to find similar cases to the Pomorski one, but wasn't successful. Which kind of proves my point that it was either a one time occurance or a very rare thing. I could provide plenty of links to other international cases like child abuse for example, but I don't think that's really necessary.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


If there is one thing that Germans are paranoid about, then it's their brown past. Believe it or not, but no institution would survive the firestorm in the public, the mass media and the political circles should

there be even the slightest hint of fascist behavior. Latest example - although not directly related to this thread - is probably Thilo Sarrazin and his book.


You need to see the context:
https://polishforums.com/news/poland-pis-wants-symmetry-minorites-living-63579/2/#msg1333270


No, you didn't claim that, but some of the sources you linked did.

The whole child custody question is worldwide dirty business - and all who are involved are guilty in one way or another. The parents, because they can't get their act together, inflexible institutions that follow outdated laws to the letter, judges who do not care about international law, politicians who don't want to touch the topic ... you name it. In the end it's always the kids who are the victims. Maybe that is something we can both agree to...

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


And I gave you the answer: I cannot be certain because I don't know all the details and haven't heard both sides. I actually expected you to give me the same answer - despite the rather controversial headline of the ABP page.


No, that's why I removed the link from my original post. You were just too fast for me and referred to it while I was editing... :)

I meant the International Child Abduction Database looking trustworthy.


You misunderstood what I was saying. One case alone or a handful don't prove that a whole organization discriminates against foreigners. There might have been isolated incidents where a case worker was a xenophobe, but there a millions of other cases where that was not the case. The Jugendamt is painted with a broad Nazi brush here, and that's simply not correct.


I will answer that tomorrow, okay.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


LOL!


As I said before: without knowing all the details and without hearing both sides, it's difficult to get an educated opinion about these cases.


How do you know it does? Running in circles... :)


There are so many complicated and unfortunate cases out there, it's unbelievable. If you are interested, here's one source that looks trustworthy:

incadat.com/index.cfm?act=summaries.new&sl=4&lng=1

Click on a few of those 'New Summaries', for example this one:

incadat.com/index.cfm?act=search.detail&cid=1174&lng=1&sl=2

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


I don't like right-wing politicians - Polish or otherwise.


Well, you ASSUME - maybe that is the problem? :)


My example of the Child Protection Agency was only an answer to:



Not about the Polish version of the Jugendamt, but about Polish courts mishandling international child abduction cases.


I agree that there are cases where people were treated unfairly or where the Jugendamt made wrong decisions, but nationality has nothing to do with it.


Americans bother everyone if it helps to get their way... :)


There are definitely problems in handling international cases, but that's not a particular German problem.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


I could turn that around: you believe everything an upset parent tells you? A father beats up his wife, the woman leaves with the kids, the father claims that the mother abducted the children and files a lawsuit. Now what?


None of us knows all the details to come to such a conclusion.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


Well, I'm Australian with Polish and German ancestors, but that has nothing to do with my opinion here.

First and foremost, institutions like the Jugendamt or the American Child Protection Agency are there to protect children. I don't give a flying hoot whether parents feel discriminated against or their human rights violated as long as the kids are safe and the actions of the authorities involved are both justified and legal. In the case of Pomorski it was justified because of the domestic violence, in the case of the Romeikes it was justfied and legal because they knowingly broke the law. I believe that at least half of the complaints against the aforementioned institutions are either based on manipulated facts where one parent "forgets" to mention certain negative details, or they are simply blown out of proportion to serve someone's agenda. That doesn't mean that I back everything these institutions do or that I agree to state arbitrariness. If someone is really treated unfairly or his rights are violated, something needs to be done - no matter which country. But before we believe what some sources on the web claim, let's get all the facts first and then point the finger.


Who is defensive now... ;)


No, I meant what happens if there is suspected child abuse for example? Does Poland have something like the Jugendamt, and if yes what is its reputation?


What cora_b says, sounds accurate up to a certain extent. Although I'm sure that most Germans never had contact with the Jugendamt.

News / Poland Secession [5]


Sure, that's why these people are more than happy to take the EU subsidies while at the same time complaining about the EU. Those right-wingers remind me a bit of Texas: talking about secession, constantly campaigning against government hand-outs and demanding "entitlement reform", but one of the biggest recipients of federal subsidies in the US.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]

Paulina, let me add a few more thoughts:

The Romeikes grew up in Germany and passed through the German school system. Before their first child was even before, they were fully aware of the fact that attending school is mandatory in Germany and that breaking the law has consequences (as it should have). When their children reached school age, the Romeikes - who are Christian fundamentalist - were not happy with the content of some books that were used in classes, even though everybody else had no problem with it. So they decided to break the law by not sending their kids to school; claiming that their "religious freedom" was violated when the German authorities insisted that the kids had to go back to school. The Romeikes were hiding behind religion, when in reality they simply did not agree with the school system and wanted a special treatment for them and their kids.

Religious freedom is guaranteed by the German constitution, and it is fully enforced. No doubt about that. When the Romeikes applied for political asylum in the US, claiming that their religious rights were violated in Germany, they simply lied. And with the help of an ultra-conservative lobbyist organization they were able to convince a judge in Florida. Why didn't they simply immigrate and chose to play this laughable blame game instead? Because they wouldn't have stood a chance to get a greencard or citizenship without it! So in essence, they used a lie and their children to get into the USA.


There were no human rights violated. Germany is not some war torn, crime ridden hellhole somewhere in the Third World. It is a modern democracy which guarantees human rights. Granting the Romeikes asylum was simply a joke by an activist judge who didn't know what he was talking about.


As always in life, there are two sides to a story. When you read some scary stuff on the Internet, you have to be aware who is writing it. A father might claim that his human rights are violated when he isn't allowed to talk to his children in Polish, but if you look closer it turns out that the guy was accused of domestic violence and the judges/ Jugendamt did what they had to do: protect the children. That's the law of the country - not only in Germany, but also in the US for example (how does it work in Poland, by the way?).

Talking about scary: if your neighbor here in the US claims that something is wrong with your children, he can call the cops who can - with the help of the so-called Child Protection Agency - take away your children and put them in foster care without you having any say in the matter. I know cases where children were taken away from families and - even though it turned out that the denunciation of the neighbor was a lie - had not been reunited with their families after over a year. "Hitlerjugendamt" ... American style?

In conclusion: don't always believe what you hear or read. There are of course cases where people are treated extremely unfair (in Germany and elsewhere), but a lot of times it's just blown out of proportion to serve the interest of some group or individual.

PS:
Canada seems to be a "hellhole", too ... ;)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_child_abduction_in_the_United_States#United_States_Abduction_Statistics

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


The Romeikes could've simply emigrated to the US. Instead they were granted political asylum because a judge decided that he doesn't agree with the laws of a foreign country (read the article I linked in). You really think that's okay? Maybe a German judge should interfere with Polish affairs then?


That guy was an idiot, simple as that. He was probably upset because the kids were disturbing his sleep, and he threatened the mother.

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]


Nonsense. Many Germans were invited by the Polish nobility and had settled in Poland long before the partitions. Additionally, people of German descent were asked whether they wanted to stay in Poland after WW1. If people were not listed on the so-called "Optantenliste", they had decided to become Polish citizens and were accepted as such by the Polish state. German ancestry or not.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


Paulina, that is probably the worst example you could've picked. Home schooling is almost always illegal in Germany and the Romeikes thought they could break the law by not sending their kids to school. In the end they fled the country and asked for "asylum" in the US. It's a bad joke that an American judge dared to interfere with the internal affairs of another country. This one was discussed on PF as well, by the way.

Just one example: foxnews.com/story/0,2933,511825,00.html


Always convenient to mention the Nazi past of Germany. That way they don't have to worry too much about their own skeletons in the closet. Very popular instrument in politics as the Greek crisis shows.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


I googled a bit and it seems that the courts decided the way they did because Wojciech Pomorski had been accused of domestic violence before his wife left him.


No matter which country - if the pending cases are justified in any way, then by all means let's solve them in the best interest of all people involved. When it comes to children, almost every nation is guilty of bending the law or not complying 100% with international law, I'm afraid.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


We had this topic before, didn't we? FWIW:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_child_abduction_in_the_United_States#Poland

Quote:
"The Hague Abduction Convention came into force between the United States and Poland on November 11, 1992. Poland has been cited in the compliance Reports for every year from 2000 to 2008 as either a "country of concern," having "enforcement problems" or "demonstrating patterns of noncompliance" with the Hague Abduction Convention"

That parts of the Polish media and certain politicians are pointing the finger at Germany is simply hypocritical.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


I understood, Marysienka, but the days of forced "Germanization" ended almost 100 years ago (or roughly 70 years, depending on how you look at it). Anyone who has visited modern day Germany and has lived there for a longer period of time will find it very hard to understand this generalization, that's for sure.


Remembering history is one thing, being stuck in the past and needlessly living in fear of your neighbors is another. Some Polish politicians and mass media drum up and exploit this fear for their own purposes: power and profit. I don't think that the Polish people - especially given their history - deserve that.


If preventing someone from using his native language is done with the intent to deny him his human rights, I would wholeheartedly agree with you, but this was definitely not the case here.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


The courts have decided that the guy has to be supervised by a case worker when visiting his children. How is the case worker supposed to understand what the father is telling his kids when he doesn't speak Polish? So simply because the father has a mighty chip on his shoulder and refuses to speak German (even though he is fluent in that language), the German taxpayer has to hire and pay for a translator so that the case worker can do his job the way that is required by the courts. Give me a break, really. If the guy couldn't speak a word of German, I would understand, but since he is fluent I couldn't care less about him. Pole or not - he's just a d*ckhead who is pulling the racism/ Nazi card because he can't get his way.


I was referring to Marysienka's "We Poles have this fear" statement, which is something irrational from a long gone past. It's 2012 - nobody tries to "germanize" your kids or spit in your face anymore.

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


In their minds, some Poles seem to have never left the 1930's and 1940's...

News / PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland [71]


There was a reason why the guy was only allowed to see his kids under supervision, if I recall correctly. And why would Hamburg be obliged to provide a translator or translation service for every freakin' nationality in the city? German is the official language of the country, the kids are German AFAIK, and Pomorski speaks the language fluently. So where's the problem?

I've yet to see a country in which you will be given a translator if you are fluent in the local language.