Language / Polish Language - Basic concepts [52]


I am truly amazed by your extremely deep understanding of Polish.


Everyone listening to this song should notice that its title was deliberately meant to be przewrotny (sorry, I don't know an English equivalent of this adjective). In reality, such a phrase requires the double negation in order to be proper Polish - "Nie będę robić nic ".


Nor did the authors of the writing encouraging people to give up a seat to an elderly person on a tram in Warsaw in which I travelled some years ago. The (erroneous) writing was "Ustąp mi miejsce".

News / Highlights of passing year, in Poland (or elsewhere) which made hot discussions in PF [57]


Here's a passage from the Wiki page " 'Polish death camp' controversy":

An example of the controversy occurred when an April 30, 2004 CTV News report made reference to "the Polish camp in Treblinka". The Polish embassy in Canada lodged a complaint with CTV. Robert Hurst of CTV, however, argued that the term "Polish" was used throughout North America in a geographical sense, and declined to issue a correction. The Polish Ambassador to Ottawa then complained to the National Specialty Services Panel of the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council. The Council did not accept Hurst's argument and ruled that the word "'Polish'—similarly to such adjectives as 'English', 'French' and 'German'—had connotations that clearly extended beyond geographic context. Its use with reference to Nazi extermination camps was misleading and improper".

I cannot provide a reference (I don't remember the name of the newspaper), but once in the American press, the concentration camp in Germany was referred to as a "Polish concentration camp".

Language / Polish Language - Basic concepts [52]

To kcharlie
--------------------------
Sir, in your most interesting overview of the Polish grammar, you seem to "reduce", and thus to underestimate strongly the role of the genitive case in Polish in aspects other than rendering relations of possessiveness between objects. Its other roles should not be neglected as the genitive case truly seems to be the most important one in Polish, greatly exceeding the importance of each other case.


Please notice that the genitive case is indispensable in the formation of the majority of negative sentences. For instance, having employed the accusative in a phrase like: Kupiłem sobie nowy płaszcz, you should irrevocably turn to the genetive case while formulating the negation of this sentence: Nie kupiłem sobie nowego płaszcza. Also notice that a significant number of Polish verbs require the genitive case rather than the accusative case for their direct objects despite the fact that the genitive case does not carry any notion of possessivness there. Thus, the sentence: "Ustąpiłem mu miejsca", needs the noun in genetive, though it is true, however, that a number of the native speakers of Polish have the tendency to replace the genitive with the accusative with such verbs, but this tendency is hardly prevailing yet.

Such observations have perhaps led the ancient Polish grammarians to call this case by the name which has nothing to do to with the notion of possessivness, but underlines the notion of completness, or more often, the lack of completness with it. Its Polish name "Dopełniacz" is of course translated into English as "Genitive"; and since the latter so clearly conveys the idea of possessivness, at the same time being the only visible "case" in English, it is easy to associate the Polish genitive with the sole idea of possessiveness in the mind of an Anglo-Saxon learner of Polish. In my opinion, however, it should strongly be avoided, hence these few remarks on the role of the genitive in the Polish system of cases with which I allow myself to supplement your otherwise interesting description of them all.

Life / Polish TV licence (abonament) - almost no-one I know pays [36]

I wonder how it will work in practice. Suppose my wife pays the licence, but I don't since I watch TV on the same telly for which she has already paid the licence. Should I pay another licence or should she go and tell them that we share the same telly. The easiest way to collect a TV licence from each houshold is doing it through electricity bills. Maybe a houshold can then claim they do not have any device capable of receiving TV, but still electricity bills are extremely likely to be employed for doing the task.

Life / Polish TV licence (abonament) - almost no-one I know pays [36]




Then I can't see where the change really is. If the licence is paid the same way it used to be, how will they make everybody pay it now?

Life / Polish TV licence (abonament) - almost no-one I know pays [36]

It was correct, but your fees are for 2012.


This is what I read in the Polish press. How will the licence in Germany be payable then?

Life / Polish TV licence (abonament) - almost no-one I know pays [36]


Except those who don't use electricity (or who don't pay for it). True, those are very few, although such people exist even in Germany (down-and-outs mostly)

Life / Polish TV licence (abonament) - almost no-one I know pays [36]

The National Broadcasting Council's site will give you the TV licence fees (unfortunately only in Polish, but please don't complain about it, Polish is still the only official language in Poland). You can pay it monthly, or every two, three or six month or yearly. The latter one for 2013 is 201,40 zł (icludes radio and TV, no option to pay for the TV only, but there's an option to pay for the radio only - 61,00 zł)

krrit.gov.pl/dla-abonentow-i-konsumentow/abonament

Language / Quick question on Polish language fundamental [40]


The verb "czytać" requires the accusative case and not the genetive case as a direct object, so the correct phrases will be:
Czytałem książkę [singular];
Czytałem ksiażki [plural].

Some other verbs, like the verb "używać", will need the genetive case in the direct object position, for example:
Używałem książki jako podpórki [singular];
Używałem książek jako podpórki [plural].

Life / Polish TV licence (abonament) - almost no-one I know pays [36]

I doubt that your cable TV company pays your licence. The TV licence is possibly not included in the fee they get from you for providing the service (signal), but it will be better to check it with them.

In Germany the TV licence will be included in the electricity bill of all those who pay such a bill. This new arrangment will be valid from the 1st of January 2013 onwards.

History / Was Prussia mostly German? [65]


Indeed, an excellent explanation by Qui!


As Germans were expelled from the former German territories acquired by Poland on the decisions made by the Allies after the WW II, no such move was envisaged in the treaty of Versailles. If you claim that your grandparents were driven out of West Prussia, you should produce some proof of it, perhaps in the shape of an administrative decision. There existed a significant German minority on this territory of Poland between 1918 and 1939 and German-language press was printed in the cities of the region, so it clearly shows that German people stayed in the places where they lived before 1914. Another question is that they left altogether after 1945 even if they were Polish citizens before 1939. The reasons may have been that they were assigned to the highest categories of the Volksliste by the German invading forces after 1939 thus making them truly German citizens.

News / €80 billion for Poland new EU budget [166]




Everyone seems to hate everyone in the EU. Why then the EU leaders shouldn't hate one another at a eurosummit? But Meathead is setting quite a different standard on the PF:


I love the French language, me too


She said: Nevertheless, I wish you a good day, even if it seems quite difficult for me because of the hate you show.

But please don't tell me that you knew what it meant before I told you. I hate that!

Life / did/does Polish TV show any British Sitcoms? [35]


The reason for that may be that Poland still has her Hyacinths on every road. We are behind England in almost everything. Notice that our own Guy Fawkes appeared more than 400 years after the original one. If things don't speed up significantly, we'll have to wait until 2419 for our Hyacinths to disappear. But things risk not to speed up since David Cameron wants to cut down on funds which are aimed to help Poland speed things up.

Life / did/does Polish TV show any British Sitcoms? [35]


was my favorite one. The Polish title: Co ludzie powiedzą!?

Love / Polish couples living out of wedlock? [108]


That's amazing and means that the parent(s) has/have to produce a certficate from the Church that proves that.

Or was her son turned down by the school on any other formal excuse? Or was it a Catholic school which by law may be entitled to do that?

News / More Poles speak English than French or Spanish! [34]

That's clearly amazing! Far different from the times when I was the only teen or person within a 20 km radius who could speak some decent English.


French or Spanish are local languages in Europe plus they are "continental" in one of the continents of the world (Africa or South America). But the are indespensable in their countries of origin. My recent experience in Cannes in France has shown that it is impossible to use an automatic toilet if you don't read French; an English only speaking lady was unable to open it with her coin, and then was even unable to receive instructions in English I was giving her, such great was her distress resulting from not knowing French in Cannes. Hélas, c'est la vie !

News / Poland's Guy Fawkes [88]

A real Guy Fawkes, this man. Four tons of explosives were to be planted at the building of the Seym at its plenary session when voting the next year's budget, with the PM, the President and the entire government present at it. The man has been described by the prosecutors as nationalistic, xenophobic and racist since he was describing people governing Poland as "obcy" and not "true Poles".

Anyway, it seems that Poland is more than 400 years behind Britain in trying to do this sort of trick to her Houses of Parliament!

News / Poland's Guy Fawkes [88]

Isn't it the news that aims to cover up the possible failure of the eurosummit on the EU budget to be held on Thursday and Fiday in Brussels? Tusk will eventually return from the summit with nothing of the sort he has promised to win for Poland, so concentrating on the fact that the government was highly effective in preventing a Guy Fawkes day in Poland instead seems to be a clever political option for the Civic Platform in the present harsh circumstances for the European budget.

News / Palikot's "Modern Poland" and the Tea Party - how do they compare? Should be banned? [21]

Yes, it seems that Mr. Palikmiot wants Germany, France, Italy as well as other European states, Poland included, to dissapear (hopefully, the UK would be spared). But, it would look extremely silly for every true Polish nationalist to call to hang Palikiot for wanting Germany to disapear!

News / Palikot's "Modern Poland" and the Tea Party - how do they compare? Should be banned? [21]

You desperately try to win someone's attention, but most you can get will be the attention of Harry (and only if he's in a good mood!

Language / i don't understand this, "rozmawianO" and "pitO"? [18]


Well, no, I think you are wrong here. The sentence in question cannot be compared to "Grób myje siebie" as "grób' in 'Grób myje się' very distinctively takes the accusative case, whereas "grób" in "Grób myje siebie" takes the nominative case. You will readily descover it when you replace the gender of the noun from masculine into feminine in order to get the following sentences "Salę sprząta się" and "Sala sprząta siebie".

Using inanimate nouns certainly requires more attention, but doesn't make using them in this type sentences incorrect per se.

Po polsku / Czy ktoś pamięta ORMO? [22]


Upewniam Cię, my dear Polish-American friend Polonius, że w PO istnieje bardzo pokaźne skrzydło raczej mocno konserwatywnych katolików, o którym tu na PF polityczni przeciwnicy PO w ogóle nie chcą wspominać, gdyż zbyt zaburzałoby to im ich czarno-białe widzenie świata, w którym Jarosław Kaczyński jest rycerzem jadącym na białym koniu niemalże niedotykającym ziemi, zaś PO jest wściekłą czarną diablicą rozdającą razy prawdziwym chrześcijanom. Amen!

Po polsku / Czy ktoś pamięta ORMO? [22]




... a dlaczego tak świadczy, wyjaśniono powyżej!

Po polsku / Czy ktoś pamięta ORMO? [22]

Ja natomiast pracuję w Warszawie i nie słyszałem nigdy tego terminu.

Wierszyk ten zdaje się być wyzłośliwianiem się politycznych przeciwników PO na tę partię. Pewnie świadczy on o ich swoistej desperacji, albowiem skrót ORMO (Ochotnicza Rezerwa Milicji Obywatelskiej) chyba już nic nie mówi dzisiejszym młodym ludziom. Już wszakże w czasie mojej młodości kojarzył się on z dosyć zaawansowanymi w "leciech" mężczyznami (dzisiaj odpowiedni na nich termin brzmiałby "leśni dziadkowie"), toteż sądzę, że obecnie ochotnicy ORMO nie tyle "są za Platformą", ile sikają w pampersy, które troskliwie zmienia im rodzina albo personel domu spokojnej starości. Ale, swoją drogą, co to za spokojna starość w kraju rządzonym przez Tuska!? My tu wszyscy chcielibyśmy być rządzeni przez Jarosława Kaczyńskiego albo Baracka Obamę (ale, uchowaj Boże, nie przez tego mormona, Romneya, bądź innego równie dziwacznego Amerykańca)!

Language / What has been the hardest language for you to learn? [81]


That Polish was the second mother tongue of Mickiewicz is a bit surprising!

Po polsku / Czy ktoś pamięta ORMO? [22]

Pierwsze słyszę! To rzeczywiście jakaś domorosła twórczość rodem z USA. Co na to wszystko Busia?

UK, Ireland / Do the poles like British culture [127]



This is clearly patronising the Polish people living in Britain by the English people living in Poland. Or am I wrong with my assumption? And if I'm wrong, tell me why I'm wrong here?

partronize = traiter avec condescedance, prendre un air supérieur avec quelqu'un
[The above is an example of patronysing the English people by any other people through using the French language in the aim of trying to explain things to the English people]

News / Lech Walesa is not a democrat and this statement proves it. [24]

Milky, dear, are you playing an old trick on me? You've simply quoted part of my statement. Your proper quote - in which my answer lies - should have been:


And then I said: "Try to jump the fence yourself". Good Lord, why do you want me to jump the fence for you? I am not Lech Wałęsa to jump fences for you or for the good of the country.

News / Lech Walesa is not a democrat and this statement proves it. [24]



Hey, you'd like to know, but I won't tell you! Those I'm talking about are actually in this thread or anywhere else on the PF fora. Try to guess their names yourself - I'm sure you'll succeed in the same way as Lech Wałęsa did when he jumped the fence of the Lenin shipyard in Gdańsk!!!

Language / When would one use nowy and when would he use nowego? [23]


I concur with it wholeheartedly. But nonetheless, could you please explain in more detail what you mean by "reinforced 'mental' drill in context"?