History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

O.K. O.K. Maybe I should just say thank you Pan Skysoulmate and Pan Grunwald. ;-)

Pani Asia aka Softie

History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

Guesswho, it would be too boring to examine all my family lines. Basically, the ethnic German lines had lived in Russian-Poland for 250 years A few had great-grandparents that lived across the border in West Prussia in what is now Brodnica, Poland but was W. Strasburg at the time.

And a very long time ago, they came from the Gdańsk delta area as part of the Dutch settlements. They must have mixed with the local Prussian Germans, and began speaking a version of Low German that had a lot of Flemish influence.

So, Before that, most likely they came from the Spanish Netherlands in search of religious freedom, Frisia, and Northern Germany. But that was way before I traced any of my individual lines. It has taken me long enough just to get back to the late 1600's with certainty. lol

Therefore, what I said holds true, they did not have memories of Germany or Prussia that they held onto, but memories of Poland. Yet, they fully felt they were German ethnically and spoke Low German at home, high German in the cities, and also spoke Polish. Some knew Russian as well.

I DO have ethnically Polish family on my mother's side, and they were Prussian citizens. So, the nationalities of my family were generally switched from their ethnicity.

History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

Yes, an "I like" button or + good idea! :-D

Thanks Mr. Grunwald and Skysoulmate!

History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

Guesswho, I understand what you are saying. If they had been from West Prussia or East Prussia, they may not have missed Poland. My family's position was different than ethnic Germans who lived in places that had been part of Germany. This part of my family that I refer to were originally part of the Dutch/North Germans/Frisians who lived in the delta areas of Gdańsk and gradually migrated down the Vistula River. They were invited into Poland to help drain the swamps and were allowed to have German schools, and communities. My grandmother and her family lived in Congress Poland for close to 250 years. They never had German citizenship so did not feel the way Germans who lived in Danzig/Gdańsk felt. They received German citizenship once they arrived in Germany based on their speaking German and having German surnames.

Poland was their home. They did not like the Russians occupying their country during the partitions. They got along with the Polish nobles and their Polish neighbors, but they maintained Low German, and a sense of being ethnically German. So, yes.They truly missed Poland with all their hearts and wrote poetry lamenting the loss of their home.

One man who is also a distant relative, fled to Germany and then to Canada. He says that when he hears the national anthem of Germany or Canada, it fails to move him. The only anthem that moves him is the Polish anthem. They were in a very tough spot. But thankfully, they are happy now.

History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

Although my immediate family were all in the United States before WWII, and did not have to deal with the expulsions of ethnic Germans, my Witzke-Laskowska grandmother had two brothers, and two sisters who were still in Poland.

Her two brothers and one sister fled to Germany. My grandmother's other sister and her family wanted to stay in Poland, and continue being Polish citizens. The family consisted of my grandmother's sister, her husband, four sons, and one daughter who was married with a three year old, and pregnant.

Two of my grandmother's sister's sons were killed by Russians. Her husband and her sixteen year old son were murdered by Poles. Her daughter went into premature labor after the news of her father and younger brother, and she bled to death, and the unborn baby died. The three year old was brought up by his father who lost a leg in the war. My grandmother's sister was put into a Polish work camp. Years later, she and her one remaining son joined her brothers and sisters in Germany. I only have found out about this recently as I have been searching for information about what happened to my grandmother's family.

When I was in Poland this past summer, I found distant relatives of the family who had stayed in Poland and live there now. One man was very nice to me. He now runs the farm where my grandmother grew up. Many of these people are fixing up the old German cemeteries and acknowledging that while they are Polish, they have German heritage, too. My understanding was that the only ethnic Germans who could stay in Poland after WWII were those who had married into a Polish family. I do understand that Poland never expelled them, but it was part of the Potsdam Treaty. On my mother's side in Poznan, I probably have a lot of relatives, but I have not done much genealogy on that part of my family yet. I really love Poland and have been there three times. I go to Germany for the first time this April and will meet my father's cousins. One is 90 years old and was so surprised and happy that I found her. They are all well and happy now, but missed Poland dreadfully for many years.

History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

Zimmy, that could have something to do with it. Her surname was Schmidt, but her given name was Ludwika. My maternal grandfather's sister's background was mainly German though, other than their grandmother had the surname Wilk, which I believe is wolf in Polish.

I do have family that are probably mixed. My German grandmother on my father's side also was from Russian-Poland. Her father was a Witzke, and her mother a Laskowska. But I believe Laskowska was a Polonized version of an earlier German name.

And the German grandfather who became American in 1928, married an ethnic Polish lady in America. Both sides of her family were Polish, (Poznan), but they had German nationality. My mother grew up speaking Polish. Her father spoke Polish, Russian and Low German. My father grew up speaking German.

With the existence of the partitions and my Poles being from Prussia, and my Germans from Russian-Poland, answering the common American question of what are you has always been somewhat of a challenge for me! :-D

History / If Poland didn't exist, how did citizens become Polish? [57]

My ethnically German grandfather, Eduard Schmidt, lived just across the border from West Prussia, in what was sometimes called Russian-Poland. He had Russian citizenship prior to Poland existing again.

It is strange though because by the time Poland came into being again, he was living in the United States but he received Polish citizenship, and his sister received Polish citizenship. I have no idea if he asked for it, or Poland just gave it to him. I looked at the passenger records on ancestry.com and found that my grandfather's sister, retained her Polish citizenship even in 1937 as she went on a vacation cruise to Italy. She was listed as Polish.

My grandfather became a naturalized American in 1928. I have his papers and it says he was a citizen of Poland. But when he came to America, before Poland existed, he was listed as a Russian on the ship manifest.

History / Why is there NOTHING (besides Gdansk and Szczecin) in former Prussia? [80]

There are also a lot of smaller interesting places on the border between Prussia and Russian Poland that Chopin visited. Estates and beautiful countryside that impressed him can be found in his diaries about school holidays in Poland and trips to Prussia.

This place Golub, has a small castle and lies between Pomerania and Warsaw. (My family lived in this area and also nearby Strasburg/Brodnica for about 250 years until WWII.

Closer to Warsaw there are other beautiful estates and manor houses. A lot of the area was made into a bread basket by Prussian and Dutch people who migrated from the Vistula River basin towards Warsaw and often farmed as tenants on the Polish noble's land. My ethnic German grandmother had her own farm and as a teenager did housekeeping on the Polish manor house nearby, Ugoszcz. She was born in 1896. The charm of these areas were the manor houses, countryside and farms. You may call it nothing, but feeding people is important, too.

en.chopin.nifc.pl/chopin/places/poland/id/573

News / Polish Primate condemns EU's anti-Christianity [29]

And then there are articles that speak of massive infiltration within many governments by a form of fundamental Christians. Christ Plus Nothing gains monetary aid and other perks according to the link below. There is so much out there that you wonder what really goes on in any government. What do we really know about anything. Secular plots to take over the world, fundamental plots to take over the world.

Love / Your Thoughts about 20 Year Age Difference Between Men & Women in Poland? [74]

Not everyone wants children. If that is the case, then an OW/YM relationship can work very well. Or they can work well for a time. Some older women know that the day will come when their young man leaves, but they are happy for the present time. Love happens. I've been married to a man seven years older, and in relationships since then with much younger men. It's the person rather than the age.

If you look at divorces and breakups, being the same age or slightly older/younger makes no difference. No one can predict the future.

And yes, statistically, the younger partner will have to take care of the older one most likely. But then, the younger person could wind up an invalid, too and if you are married that is part of the vow you make to each other. You go into it hopefully with eyes wide open.

Life / The most dissapointed with Poland are those who have Polish origins. [35]

I've been to Poland three times, and have altogether spent about eight weeks. Happily, I never met anyone who treated me badly as a American with Polish ancestors. People seemed genuinely pleased I was there, and attempted to show me the real Poland.

One family even made their traditional Easter foods in June, so I would know what their Easter was like. Others rode me all over the countryside to help me locate the places where my family once lived. True, I'd made friends via the internet before I arrived, but even strangers were marvelous.

The only place I have encountered a bad attitude towards those of us of Polish descent is on this forum. I am sure there are some in Poland, too. But for the most part, I was welcomed by native Poles with open arms and lots of curiousity.

USA, Canada / Polish President Says Cleveland is Like Home [30]

Greenpoint in Brooklyn is pretty nice. :-)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpoint,_Brooklyn

Life / Polish-American Polka Music in Poland [60]

Congratulations, the link works very well! That was probably a good choice of song, too.
I am an American, so cannot make a valid comment from the Polish standpoint.

Awhile back, I looked up the origin of the Polka and like some of the other posters have said, it is not a Polish dance. Except that the craze swept the world around the time that a lot of Polish people emigrated to America. They passed it down as Polish, and so it seems a Polish thing to us in America.

But in Poland, the craze came and went and no one passed it down. They were in their own country and things changed in the same way that American music changed. So contemporary Poles as far as I can see are not familiar with Polka music to any extent. And the usual reaction as you've seen is that it is not Polish at all.

In the States, whatever was listened to or danced to by an ancestor was cherished as a tradition from the old country. At least this is my understanding.

USA, Canada / American...Polish Resident...Returning to the land of milk and honey [103]

When I traveled to Poland this summer, it was after most airlines had discontinued free checked in baggage. I got to the USAirways check in and they were about to charge me for my suitcase. I mentioned LOT and they looked again and said I did not have to pay for it due to it being a continuous flight with LOT, and it stayed on route the whole way which was great!

Language / Village and towns in Poland with hard to pronounce names [22]

I can murder Polish words better than most, but your phonetics looks about right. I wonder if the ł is voiced more though. Help native Poles!

Even the village where my grandmother's farm was located looks difficult to me, but the village you are talking about is definitely visually challenging.

My grandmother lived in Przyrowa, near Rypin. I grew up hearing Polish, but never knew the letter system and I was pretty surprised when I saw how things were spelled.

Culture shock! LOL *wink*

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Yes, it all depends upon the neighborhood. Lots of folks near me leave their doors unlocked. They all know each other. I've done it too, and knock on wood, so far so good. I have seen reports of neighbors who have been robbed. Maybe it was my pit bull that kept us safe. I dunno.

He passed away last year so we shall see.....

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

If you read post #100 you'll see that I was not very shocked while in Poland. But I have not attempted to live there. So who knows what surprises would be there for me.

I had a Polish boyfriend who did come to live with me for a year and he was "shocked" about ceiling fans, and AC in my car. But I live in a hot climate and everyone has AC in their cars. About ten years ago in Poland, probably few had AC in their cars, just as when I was living in NYC not as many people had AC either.

Shocked is a word that can mean something drastic, so I see your point.

The OP was excited by her boyfriend's reactions. She is expressive and used lots of exclamation points which made the phrase culture shock seem more shocking than the term implies.

And again, this term is used in regard to all countries. Not just Poland. There are people who are not shocked or surprised by anything. We are all different. It is not an insult....it is just a phrase.

I found Poland to be a great place.

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

Yes, Teffle is correct. It is a sociological phrase. There is culture shock to some extent when anyone goes to any country other than their own. Maybe not for vacation, but after a few weeks or more. It is nothing directed at Poland in particular.

Often people love their new place even better than home....but after a time they begin to miss home. Then sometimes when they go back home, they go through reverse culture shock.

I think it seems more serious to Grubas because of all the exclamation points used by OP.

Law / Polish Citizenship for a foreigner whose parents was born in Poland [174]

Yes, Delph is correct, your ancestor probably was not a citizen of Poland, and cannot pass citizenship along. That is the case with my Polish ancestors.

But, my German ancestors did have Polish citizenship, so I've thought about doing this, as well.
Maybe a lawyer can see a way though.

If I remember correctly, you have to have one grandparent who is Polish, or two great grand parents for it to work out. Good luck.

USA, Canada / CULTURE SHOCK! (of my Polish finance who visited the US) [210]

I have yet to go to Germany, (will do so in April).....but I've been to Poland three times. This last summer I had to go to the town hall in Rypin and the regional archives in Włocławek and I found every one organized and helpful. I did have a local Polish guide to help me communicate and so maybe that was a factor in my favor.

At the town hall, I had to show proof that I was related to the people born less than 100 years ago to get information. It is the same in New Jersey. At the regional archives, I had to order many church books and when they brought them out, visually scan them for family older than 100 years. There were lots of forms to fill out to facilitate the process, and then copies to be made. Truthfully, at closing time we had hundreds and hundreds of documents yet to copy. So we took what was done with us and then they mailed us the rest later.

After I submitted my proof that my family was from Rypin, I did have to come back to the town hall later in the afternoon to see if they located what I wanted, but the records were from 1919. During that time period there was a lot going on in Poland, including Spanish flu. I have not had to deal with other types of bureaucracy while in Poland, but nothing seemed out of the usual to me. And I grew up in NYC.

Oh wait, I did think of something. Every place where I made reservations, always seemed caught off guard that I had arrived. It almost seemed like reservations were meaningless.

Life / Why Poland is "surprised" by winter and snow every year? [192]

Oh how I envy you in a way. I used to live in the north, but where I am now, snow is something to get excited about. It happens only every so many years that it sticks.

Last year we had it, and everyone was so happy. No one has snow tires here. But the snow generally just sticks to the lawns and not the roads. By the next day, it's all gone.

Even if there are only some snow flurries, school closes.

History / Christopher Colombowicz: America's discoverer Polish not Portuguese, claim historians [60]

Colombowicz :-)

The Vikings do get credit in school nowadays, but for years it was only Columbus.

It's a big New World though, they could split it into North and South discoveries and share the glory.

Genealogy / DNA Testing in Poland. Is it popular? [81]

Thanks SeanBM, and U5 makes me related to the Cheddar Man in England.

But even though 10-11% of Europeans and European-Americans are part of that same group, my exact markers so far match only that one lady. I really wanted to compare our family tree. But none of her email addresses work.

Oh well, at least with traditional methods I am finding enough relatives all over Europe that I do know are my family. My grandmother was part of a family of seven children. Three came to America, and the other four stayed in Europe. After wondering about them from the time I was a teen from the unlabeled photographs, I finally found them after about ten years of hard work! And happily, they were excited when I contacted them. They always wondered what happened after my grandmother died. The first letter I received from my father's cousin said, "We are in awe, it has been so long since we heard from America." She's 90 and so I pictured this little old lady in a rocking chair covered with spider webs waiting and waiting. Well, not really...lol Anyway, now to collect some DNA from them...hehehehhe

Genealogy / DNA Testing in Poland. Is it popular? [81]

While I am part of Haplogroup U5, so far my specific markers have matched up with only one other person in the world. And I've checked all the genealogy sites where people post their results, as well as belong to the Sorensen group whose goal is to show that we are all family.

I've attempted to email this one person who has the exact same markers as me and I cannot make contact. It would be interesting to compare notes. I believe she grew up in what was East Germany close to the Polish border, before marrying coming to America. That is what her profile reveals. My maternal Polish roots are in Poznan and Gniezno, so it is possible there is a connection in recent times.

This science never promises that even an exact match would be in recent times, but is quite possible. People with the same Haplogroup without exact markers are usually further back in time. Two differences can put you before recorded history. If I remember correctly.

This science can be put to good use if you are doing your genealogy and your surname is common. Like one in my family. Szmit/Schmidt. If you find a family from near where your family originates and see no connection in the records, a Y-DNA test can tell you if the males come from the same lineage. Or if you were adopted and had a desire to know something about your ancestry, you can get a pretty good idea of where you originated.

Genealogy / DNA Testing in Poland. Is it popular? [81]

Yes, SeanBM....that is the group, R1a that I referred to if I had some of the males in my family tested.

There is no Polish gene, but R1a is more prevalent among Slavs than Germans. One of the distant names in my family line is Pusch. On line I met a man with the same surname and he had his tests done. I asked him what were his results. His family had originated in Poland, but were considered German. His DNA was R1a so we concluded that his paternal male ancestors with the name Pusch had DNA more consistent with a Slavic origin.

Genealogy / DNA Testing in Poland. Is it popular? [81]

Hi EsotericForest, when I go on some of the sites that post DNA results there are quite a few from Poland, not as much as the USA, though. But, some people in Poland do get the testing done.

I am a female, therefore I did the MtDNA test which only tests that special form of DNA that is passed down intact from mother to daughter without recombining. (I am mixed about 50% Slavic, and 50% Germanic according to written records and family knowledge). However, my maternal MtDNA line is historically as far as I know, all Polish.

My results were U5 which is the oldest Haplogroup in Europe. It is the equivalent of saying an indigenous European tribe. It predates, Vikings, Slavs, and Celts. It is most common in the reindeer herding Sammi people. So way back about 40,000 to 60,000 years ago that would be the origins of my maternal line. Which leaves out all the other people in my lineage and only considers the mother's mother's mother's and so on.

Most MtDNA Haplogroups even though they are passed down intact from mother to daughter, eventually mutate and become a new Haplogroup. Mine was the first to arrive in Europe, and has not mutated. If it were any older, and it would be Neanderthal. There are older Haplogroups than mine, but they are not in Europe. All this was quite a surprise to me.

U5 was not what I expected because it is not the most common MtDNA group in Poland. It is most common in Finland, and northern Russia.

I have not had the autosomal test done, but might someday if I can afford to do it. I am thinking of asking my male cousin if he would be interested in having his Y-DNA tested. That paternal surname is Szmit or Schmidt. I have traced them living in Poland back to around 300 years ago, but they are Germanic. Most likely Dutch.

And I am thinking of asking my father's male cousin to do a Y-DNA test. That surname is Wycke or Witzke and it is a Germanic name with Slavic influence. They too lived in Poland. I'd be curious to see if that Y-DNA has the marker more common to Slavic people, or the marker more common to German people. Just because I am curious. I love history, genealogy and learning about the migrations of all the tribes in Europe.

Love / Polish relationships (race and religion) [140]

Yes, my ex-brother-in-law remarried and she is a Korean lady. Best thing that ever happened to him and the whole family loves her. She helped care for his aged parents just like they were her own.

USA, Canada / Not everyone that lives or comes from America is RICH! [300]

Poleamerican27,if it were me, I'd begin the interview with the fact that I moved to the USA when very young and lived there for twenty years. But, emphasize you are not a citizen of the USA, but of Poland. Let them know that your Polish is rusty. That should help.

I would not go into any other details unless asked.

USA, Canada / Not everyone that lives or comes from America is RICH! [300]

Yes, Skysoulmate, I found myself thinking that Detroit is not the best bet, either. And I did forget to add to my other post, that I too, am sorry you had such a struggle.

USA, Canada / Not everyone that lives or comes from America is RICH! [300]

That is very true. I believe a number of Poles who came at the turn of the century had similar experiences, but eventually their children and grandkids became solid middle class.

Right now, especially during this economic downturn, it would be harder to be an immigrant who becomes wealthy. It is possible, but much harder.

On my first trip to Poland ten years ago, I believe I saw that perception. Newly divorced and having to change career direction, I was far from well-off. I think now people are beginning to see that we are not all rich. Not by a long shot.

I do have to say though that my grandmother did very well for herself financially and my Dad and myself benefited greatly.