History / Kaczynski's Legacy [88]


'Until the 1990s, the majority of secondary school students attended various types of vocational education institutions, while access to higher education was limited to a relatively small group'.

(Maciej Jakubowski, Evidence Institute, University of Warsaw,January 2015)

'Young people of the working class were led into a cultural cul-de-sac,namely basic vocational schools'
(Rafał Piwowarski, Secondary Education in Poland, Council of Europe Press,1996)

You can read the same in stacks of scholarly research articles, books etc. Students who attended vocational schools did not get the chance to take the Matura exam which permitted access to higher education. The fact is that Communism did not provide equal educational opportunties to all children. And there is simply no doubt that a well connected family with Party associations could see to it that their child attended university even if that child was below average, whilst a brighter child from a working class family might well be denied the opportunity even to receive a full secondary education. The Communist education system focused on fitting people into jobs and that was all. If they were short of welders you were going to be a welder, if they were short of doctors you were going to train as a doctor and so on. Now, I'm actually not at all in favour of the American idea that everyone needs a college education. I also don't agree with turning every blessed thing into a college degree and trying to make it an academic subject but under the old system, there's no doubt that young people with potential slipped through the net.


If your mother was capable of taking the Matura, what was she doing in a vocational school in the first place? Do you see the unfairness and elitism of a system which decided that your mother should be denied access to a full education? Your mother should have received a proper secondary education on equal terms with every other child, and following Matura had a choice of university or an apprenticeship or technical qualification or just a plain old job. Did your mother receive her weekend school for free? I'm just interested because I would certainly expect that in a Communist country. Access to weekend schools would also have been limited depending on where in Poland one lived. A bright young person living in a rural area, who was denied the opportunity to take Matura at secondary level, might never have been able to get that chance in later life.


That's a separate issue. It's a result of an improperly regulated higher education system.

History / Kaczynski's Legacy [88]



Yes Polly, but Harry is closer to the truth because the facts are that only a minority of students were permitted under the Communist system to attend the kind of secondary school that allowed access to higher education and once you completed your secondary education without taking Matura, there was no way for adults to compensate for that later, for example by attending evening classes as they would have been able to do in the USA or even in little backward Ireland of those times.

In the early years of Communism it was necessary to replace all the professionals lost through the removal of existing intelligentsia and other pesky individuals, so it was therefore necessary to educate the ordinary working classes. But the stats show that during the 1970s and 1980s more than half of secondary school students in Poland attended basic vocational schools which meant that they were effectively barred from ever receiving higher education. Many capable students never even took the entrance exam for the general secondary schools as there were limited places available and they were told that they were unlikely to pass and simply not allowed to take it at all. Add to that, the fact that the Matura was marked by students' own teachers, so a teacher could deliberately give a low mark to a student or a higher mark to another according to their whim, and that did happen Polly. Poland at the beginning of the 1990s was the European country with the lowest participation in higher education.

Language / Collection of learning resources for learning the Polish language [129]


Teach them the phonics, that is the sounds of the letters for reading. They're very easy, as you know, and then the children can read any word in Polish and pronounce it properly which is a good start.

Start using some basic Polish with them in everyday conversation, for example greeings and farewells, please and thank you etc, names of foods, weather. For example 'ooh zimno jest!' on a cold day or 'znowu pada' when it's raining.

Research how English is taught as a foreign langauge to young learners and use some of the ideas for games etc but do them in Polish. (I'm a primary school teacher by the way and have experience of teaching young children a foreign language, so that's my advice for what it's worth).

Work / What is a 'HND' Business qualification in Poland? [42]

Here's something for us all to enjoy, produced by Dr Bernard Lamb at Imperial College London, one of the top universities not only in the UK, but in the world, so the cream of the crop of students to choose from. He kept a diary of Errors in the English of Highly Selected Undergraduates.

s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/app/public/system/files/25/original/CowsInseminatedBySeamen.pdf

The interesting thing is that whilst it contains examples from foreign and international students, the worst were from UK raised, of British ancestry and obtained Firsts and Upper Seconds.

Work / What is a 'HND' Business qualification in Poland? [42]

I totally agree Harry. The Hons Bachelors can be regarded as a Magister as long as it's worth 240 ECTs. There are many Hons BA or BSc degrees in the UK which are only worth 180 points and are still way in advance of a Polish Licencjat or Inżynier degree.

I think that the better Polish universities are now trying to raise their standards to come up to UK levels of course content. In the meantime, it's hard on Poles who've graduated from UK universities and then have their qualifications regarded with suspicion by Polish employers who wonder if they're 'good enough'. It's the fault - as usual- of successive Polish goverments who do nothing to educate employers about these matters. You've had a steady stream of Polish people leaving Poland over the last twelve years (and quite a few before that too), getting qualifications in the UK or Ireland and yet Polish employers are still largely ingnorant of the quality and level of those qualifications.


Question forms, present continuous, articles................. a constant source of confusion! But in fairness Roz, one can understand what the guy is saying. It's incorrect grammar, but look at the grammar of many native speakers.

Work / What is a 'HND' Business qualification in Poland? [42]


No an English HND is not equivalent to a Polish degree. A Licencjat is the equivalent of a Bachelor of Arts degree in the UK. You're studying IT so that degree would be Bachelors of Science which is equivalent to the Polish Inżynier. Your diploma is not equivalent to Inżynier and will not count for much in Poland. To be honest employers even have some difficulty in understanding equivalence between a degree from an English university with Polish ones, let alone a diploma. It's worth doing the extra year or two for the degree.

The system of equivalence of degrees is worked out using the European Credit Transfer (ECT) system which is now recognised in Poland. Most of the major universities in Poland are now signed up to it, though many employers haven't heard of it.

You know that there's a difference in the UK between an ordinary/foundation degree and an honours one don't you? Ordinary Bachelors of Science requires 3 years full time study, Hons BSc requires four years but it's the more impressive qualification to have on your CV.

ECT points are awarded based on the number of hours of study required. Bachelor's degrees (also known as first cycle studies) are worth 180 - 240 ECTS (3 to 4 years full time, longer part time obviously). If you have the 240 points it's sometimes possible to get your BSc Hons degree recognised as equivalent to a Polish Magister. (Don't confuse the ECT points with the course points. A degree contains several courses that make up the content and each course is worth a certain number of points usually around 120 points a year, which will work out as 60ECTs).

Your HND is worth 120 ECTs. To have a Polish Inżynier you must have at least 180 ECTs.

I'd say that if you can possibly manage it carry on with your studies and go for the Hons degree. Your industry experience will certainly count in your favour but if your long term plan is to come back to Poland you should do so with the best qualification you can get. Poland is still a bit old fashioned and 'dokumenty' and the right kind of paperwork are still valued very highly. Good luck!


I think you're being a bit harsh Roz. The standard of spelling amongst English native speaking students is pretty abysmal these days. I'm sure the OP is no worse than many of them. Apart from one spelling error on a commonly misspelled word I think his/her English is perfectly ok. Afterall he's studying a technicaI subject. Good basic communicative English is perfectly adequate. I think one has to allow a bit of leeway for people for whom English is a foreign language and who have often picked up their English along the way with very little formal tuition. To be honest even if the OP had learned English in school in Poland, that might well prove more of a hindrance than a help!

Law / EU citizen - exceeded 3 months in Poland [6]

Well in theory there's a fine but in reality I've never known anyone who was fined. As for the entry ban that's a total lie. EU law forbids any such thing.

Law / EU citizen - exceeded 3 months in Poland [6]

Oh dear, what a load of old cobblers.

Study / Studying in Lublin on IT without mathematic and physic knowledge? [11]

Nlkulio, for most ordinary programming, for example developing business applications you don't need to have advanced mathematical knowledge. In that kind of programming you just have to apply existing forumlas to solve problems. However, when you get into very high level programming you need to be able to write your own algorithms. However you may never work in such a field. There really isn't that much advanced maths in day to day programmers for most software engineers but you do need to be a logical thinker and good at problem solving. Here's a link to a programmer's forum where real software engineers answer questions and this one is about the importance or otherwise of maths in programming. Here's one encouraging answer:

'To be honest, I was a horrible math student in school. Algebra was completely beyond me at the time, and I don't think I ever got higher than a D in it.

However, a few years later, after having worked as a professional software developer, I went back to college and took a course in algebra. To my amazement, it was the easiest class I had, and I got an A in it.

Truth was, programming taught me algebra, because virtually everything is just an algebraic expression.'

Sometimes what happens with maths is that it's not very well taught in schools and if it doesn't come naturally to you, you just give up and build up a mental block against it as a subject. When you come back to it from a different perspective you can find that you're more capable than you thought.

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/89158/do-you-have-to-be-good-at-math-to-be-a-good-programmer

Travel / Where can I find a beautiful lake/forest/mountain with cabin hire in Poland? [9]

So we have another miserable, bitter, jealous troll who either hasn't got a woman or has one who's not quite up to snuff, to use a lovely piece of vintage English. Is that a typo I wonder, was it supposed to be warsaw warsaw? 'Wasraw sounds' like some middle eastern chappie.

Vincent, can't recommend anywhere particular but congratulations and wishing you every happiness :))

Study / Studying in Lublin on IT without mathematic and physic knowledge? [11]

Polish unis do sometimes include a bit of basic physics in computer science degrees but you don't need any knowledge of physics or chemistry to be a progammer. It helps to be good at maths but it's not essential. As long as you can manage to scrape a pass in the maths side of your degree you'll be fine. The most important thing is to master a programming language.

UK, Ireland / Poles revealed to harbour deep hatred against Anglos when they speak in their own language [62]

She definitely won't put a finger in the pie this time. And of course as you rightly point out Jon, the matter is further complicated by the fact Parliament is the supreme legal authority in the land. It's all very interesting and of enormous historic significance. Whatever is decided in the High Court has huge implications not just in terms of Brexit. That's why the decision will be very carefully weighed.

UK, Ireland / Poles revealed to harbour deep hatred against Anglos when they speak in their own language [62]


Well, all I know is that Queenie can assert her Royal Bossiness (ie her Royal Prerogative) and act against the advice of her ministers ie the PM and the government but then when does she ever act?! Basically they can't tell her what to do but whether she can tell them what to do is another matter, not sure about that. Of course she does actually give her permission for things like when the PM asks if he can form a new government or whatever. In theory Queenie could say 'no, certainly not, you're a very naughty boy' or something along those lines but she generally says 'yes' if they catch her just before her favourite telly programme comes on and she wants to get away in a hurry. Actually I'm very fond of old Queenie.

UK, Ireland / Poles revealed to harbour deep hatred against Anglos when they speak in their own language [62]

It's not quite that simple Maf because UK referendums are not legally binding as that would undermine sovereignty. In that sense the government is under no obligation to take the UK out of the EU just because public opinion supports doing so. Conversely they can choose to uphold public opinion and ignore those who argue that the referendum was not legally binding because whether it was or not, the government can do whatever they like due to the Royal Prerogative, particularly when it relates to Treaties. The government does not have to consult parliament or obtain their support to trigger Act 50. However, despite the Royal bit, it is a matter of Common Law as to when it pertains, and this can only be decided by the Courts. Does the Royal Prerogative exist in this case? That's the issue really. It's a tricky one for the High Court because their main thing is upholding the law and judges do not like being told what to do by anyone, be it parliament or the people though they're generally rather fond of old Queenie. I don't think they'd like to upset HM by casting aspersions upon her Prerogative.

News / Corporate-linked EC attacks Poland's retail tax; govt suspends collection [74]


There's no doubt that taxes will have to go up at some point, but virtually doubled overnight, I doubt it. Mind you, the proposal being discussed was about replacing the old tax and ZUS system with a single charge. I think at the moment the two together works out at about 30% anyway doesn't it? So that would only be an increase of 10% in your overall deductions which isn't too bad. It's still quite hefty though in one fell swoop like that. I think the reason it's not happening is because they just can't overhaul their adminstrative system quickly enough. They're pretty inefficient anyway and imagine the mess if they try to amalgamate tax and ZUS.

News / Corporate-linked EC attacks Poland's retail tax; govt suspends collection [74]

It looks like a tax increase is on the cards. Here's an article from earlier this year:

shelfcompanies24.com/new-income-tax-2018

The June deadline mentioned in the article seems to have passed without the expected announcement.

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]


In the end, hard or soft Brexit will be decided by the 27 member states, not by Tusk or any one individual. As for expecting anyone to be grateful for help received from the UK over the years......I'm afraid people are just not that honourable as a rule.


Many of them are legally entitled to permanent residence under UK (not just EU) law. I think it would be a sad day for the UK if they began mass deportation of other nationalities, like some African dictatorship. That kind of extremism is not a feature of British politics. Whatever its faults, Britain will continue to uphold basic democracy that's for sure.

Language / Need Help Translating from Polish - a Figurine [18]

Haven't a clue Ziemusz but I'll ask him later. Granola bars in the oven, must dash!

Language / Need Help Translating from Polish - a Figurine [18]

No, kochanie! Bardzo dziękuję Wulkan. I think I get the joke actually because also the 'być' should be 'jest' shouldn't it? I just thought maybe it was some form of clever grammatical gymanstics that I wasn't aware of. Often I think I've said something with correct grammar because it seems so obvious and then Mr Atch corrects me, and it turns out that it's yet another exception to the rule. Polish is an absolute head wrecker. Actually something that really cracks me up is Polish rap music, the sound of the streets - but with perfect grammar!

Language / Need Help Translating from Polish - a Figurine [18]

Dlaczego trudna i nie trudny? Don't tell me język is feminine. For some reason I always thought it was masculine.

UK, Ireland / How might Britain`s withdrawal from EU affect Poles there and here? [474]

Resurrecting this thread in view of the court case now underway in England regarding Brexit. Maybe it's time for a new Brexit thread? Interesting that just as this case commences Tusk has commented that Britain can change its mind and doesn't have to leave the EU. Of course, his comments are a bit meaningless as he doesn't back up what he says by reference to British law which is the deciding factor.

Just to sum it up quickly the crux of the challenge as I understand it, is that regardless of the Referendum result, the Prime Minister doesn't have the right to trigger the leave mechanism without the approval of parliament. The government will present its case on Monday. It seems they will argue amongst other things, that parliament doesn't have to vote on Brexit because the Prime Minister is constitutionally entitled to invoke the Royal Prerogative ie use the same absolute power that once rested in the monarch, in certain situations. Also I think they covered themselves legally with the European Union Referendum Act which was passed by parliament prior to the Referendum on the understanding that the outcome would be respected. Very interesting to see how this court case unfolds. Personally I think it's unlikely that the High Court will upset the apple cart.

News / Poland -- Europe's only counterweight to Russia [271]

Actually you're the one who's wrong Levi. The population of Crimea was largely Tatar from its earliest times as an established settlement until the nineteenth century. Crimea was never especially Slavic. The world and his wife were there over a number of centuries, including the Greeks, Romans, Huns, Khazars and Goths. There was a form of Gothic spoken in parts of Crimea from about the 9th to the 19th century! Life and history is just not that simple Levi.

Love / I'm a Polish girl (my boyfriend is British) and I'm proud [58]

Well, at the risk of taking this thread too far off topic (bless me Mods for I have sinned) both the UK and Ireland are very anxious to preserve the Common Travel Area. The problem is Enda Kenny is a complete wuss, but maybe he'll be gone by the time we get down to the nitty gritty of negotiations, not that there's anyone of much use to replace him. I think it's very emotive because so far Ireland has largely seen only benefits from EU membership and now for the first time, we're seeing a very big negative. Something that was 'ours' long before we joined the EU, which we negotiated with Britain and which has worked for our two nations for nearly a hundred years, is at risk of being taken from us. It brings home the fact that EU membership does compromise one's sovereignty.

back to topic please

Love / I'm a Polish girl (my boyfriend is British) and I'm proud [58]

@ Roz do you mean you don't agree or you don't know what I'm on about, to use that lovely bit of vernacular.

I mean the old Common Travel Area etc. We'll be fighting very hard to keep it and apparently all the EU members have been and will continue to be briefed on the importance of it, but it will be hard for other EU nations to accept the Irish having special rights and privileges within post-Brexit Britain. Also there's our trade links which are in serious danger. That's one area where we can't broker any special deal or retain our present system which suits us both so well.

Love / I'm a Polish girl (my boyfriend is British) and I'm proud [58]

Hi Roz! Yes I like that as well. We are neighbours after all and there is a bond between us. Actually the whole Brexit thing is really raising all that in a big way. We're like a couple who had a long and volatile marriage, a legal separation with initial animosity followed by a mellowing but now we're facing the final divorce decree. Of course in a truly bizarre twist, the citizens of Northern Ireland will be both British and EU citizens. How is that going to work in practical terms I wonder?

Work / Information about jobs for Indian students in Poland [286]


Kmm, it most certainly does exist! I looked at it just five minutes ago and it is possible to check availability of rooms etc. I clicked on one of the hostels and it has lots of dorms , 6 and 8 beds per dorm, so that's a shared room.

By somebody at your university, I meant somebody on the staff. There is an office in all universities with administrative staff.

Getting your visa late is no excuse for being so disorganised. You should have done your research about jobs etc months ago. The answer is no, you will not be able to find much in the way of work if you don't speak Polish.

Work / Information about jobs for Indian students in Poland [286]

Kmm, do you mean that you can't find a room anywhere, that they're all booked, or do you mean that you can't find anything in your price range? You've left it very late to book something if you're coming next week but you should be able to find something. If you don't manage to book anything in advance, then make a list of the hostels (not hotels) you can afford and you'll just have to go to them in person and hope they have something free, maybe a cancelled booking will come up. If you're coming to study, then maybe somebody at your college may be able to help. But to be honest, Poles are not that quick to offer help, especially to strangers, they tend to just shrug their shoulders and say 'what do you expect me to do about it, it's your problem'.

Work / Information about jobs for Indian students in Poland [286]

Gosh Terri you're always such a Negative Nelly.

@Kmm, Hostels have shared rooms and dormitories and are usually the cheapest accommodation available.

hostelbookers.com/hostels/poland/warsaw

Love / I'm a Polish girl (my boyfriend is British) and I'm proud [58]


But why would you need a single adjective to encompass Ireland which has been for most of its history,an entirely separate and sovereign nation? I don't have a problem at all with the geographic term the British Isles, but I am not British and will not accept being referred to as such.

That is akin to suggesting that there should be a single, commonly accepted term to describe all residents of the American continent be it the USA, Canada or any of the South American countries.

Incidentally in official documents drawn up jointly by the British and governments, the term used is 'these islands', so if that's good enough for us and our neighbours then it can be good enough for you, you cheeky foreigner!


Woops! I meant to say British and Irish governments.

Love / I'm a Polish girl (my boyfriend is British) and I'm proud [58]


Lyzko I really am surprised at such an ignorant comment from you. The Irish are not British. If you are referring to Northern Ireland, then you should say so. The people of Northern Ireland are divided broadly into the indigenous Irish people who are no more British than Poles were ever Russian or German or Austrian, and the descendants of lowland Scots who were planted there during the 16th and 17th centuries. They have largely intermarried with each other and have not a drop of Irish blood in their veins. They call themselves British but everyone born in Nothern Ireland is legally an Irish citizen.


And there you reveal that you are after all, a typical American. Long ago indeed. My dear man, four hundred years or so does not count as 'long ago' in Europe. Ireland's social and cultural identity has been forged over thousands of years. The Gaelic culture was already long established when the English arrived on our shores in the 12th century.