Ironside
24 Jan 2017
News / The first PiS led government in 2005 lasted just over 2 years in Poland. [129]
If you're talking about 'democratic' practises and customs such as they were practiced in Prussia and Austria. There was a limited experience of palamentarism and self-governance in a Russian puppet state the so called Kingdom of Poland (1815 - 1831) as an extension of a semi-independent Duchy of Warsaw(1807-1815). As well as lack there of (democracy )in Russia.
Westerners talking about Poland in the 19th century display very often a tendency to narrow it down to the area around Warsaw.
Also one need to take into account that nobles in the Polish land incorporated into Russian Empire enjoyed considerable degree of autonomy and their own elective bodies with certain legal privileges and rights. That corporate like autonomy had endured until about 1850'.
Serfdom had been abolished in Austria and Prussia long before the 1860'.
Hmm ... equation slavery with serfdom is not very promising comparison. Somehow the line between slavery and serfdom is thin and uncertain at times.
When in comes to the US I bet to differ. It stems from aspirations to become a man of statue and means - an aristocrat (you could argue that aristocracy is not necessary of the feudal origin, but it was in 1590' England) and an early capitalist system of indenture - a contract within a system of unfree labour.
Hence the American Slavery system was born. Nothing about a white man superiority I'm afraid.
To add an insult to the injury. In Russia there was no feudalism. In Poland you would find a nearly a trace of the system that existed in France. In Russia serfdom was more akin to the slavery system and in Poland at for the most part in reminded more like expended indenture.
Hence the term feudalism is not every useful or helpful for understanding society.
Hmm ....how about 400 years of development and practise in the art of democracy? More citizens able to vote than any so called modern country until second part of the 19th century. If we exclude USA none could vote for their head of state. In Poland they could.
WTF? What east? If we talking about Poland we can talk about being long out of practise.
What is democracy Atch? There is no and never was a one model of it. Even US are not democracy, not really - republic is something different. Plus the meaning behind that term changes and evolves.
Besides is a moot point.
You're in for a surprise then.
Whatever that means.
In fact Poland is struggling with a post-colonial syndrome and dumping all the countries of the region into the some basket is not very helpful to recognize their problems and challenges.
In other words. I don't know why and have no alterative solution but it must be bad. Tell Mr Atch to grow up!
Poland by the nineteenth century was a bit of a mess thanks to Russia, Prussia et al. Bear in mind that serfdom wasn't abolished in Poland until the 1860
If you're talking about 'democratic' practises and customs such as they were practiced in Prussia and Austria. There was a limited experience of palamentarism and self-governance in a Russian puppet state the so called Kingdom of Poland (1815 - 1831) as an extension of a semi-independent Duchy of Warsaw(1807-1815). As well as lack there of (democracy )in Russia.
Westerners talking about Poland in the 19th century display very often a tendency to narrow it down to the area around Warsaw.
Also one need to take into account that nobles in the Polish land incorporated into Russian Empire enjoyed considerable degree of autonomy and their own elective bodies with certain legal privileges and rights. That corporate like autonomy had endured until about 1850'.
Serfdom had been abolished in Austria and Prussia long before the 1860'.
Slavery in the US is somewhat different because it stems not from feudalism
Hmm ... equation slavery with serfdom is not very promising comparison. Somehow the line between slavery and serfdom is thin and uncertain at times.
When in comes to the US I bet to differ. It stems from aspirations to become a man of statue and means - an aristocrat (you could argue that aristocracy is not necessary of the feudal origin, but it was in 1590' England) and an early capitalist system of indenture - a contract within a system of unfree labour.
Hence the American Slavery system was born. Nothing about a white man superiority I'm afraid.
To add an insult to the injury. In Russia there was no feudalism. In Poland you would find a nearly a trace of the system that existed in France. In Russia serfdom was more akin to the slavery system and in Poland at for the most part in reminded more like expended indenture.
Hence the term feudalism is not every useful or helpful for understanding society.
this is a very good point because it demonstrates how lengthy and gradual the process has been in establishing and developing the modern concept of democracy.
Hmm ....how about 400 years of development and practise in the art of democracy? More citizens able to vote than any so called modern country until second part of the 19th century. If we exclude USA none could vote for their head of state. In Poland they could.
The problem in the East
WTF? What east? If we talking about Poland we can talk about being long out of practise.
There isn't a real understanding of democracy yet and it will take a long time before there is.
What is democracy Atch? There is no and never was a one model of it. Even US are not democracy, not really - republic is something different. Plus the meaning behind that term changes and evolves.
Besides is a moot point.
The liberal or egalitarian ideals of the past are too long gone to influence modern Polish society and the Polish way of thinking.
You're in for a surprise then.
me it's not a question of PIS or PO, it's a fundamental problem that there is no tradition of democracy in this part of the world.
Whatever that means.
In fact Poland is struggling with a post-colonial syndrome and dumping all the countries of the region into the some basket is not very helpful to recognize their problems and challenges.
Firstly it's a classic sticking plaster over a gaping wound. I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on why. Secondly how is it going to be sustained? ...... the long run
In other words. I don't know why and have no alterative solution but it must be bad. Tell Mr Atch to grow up!