History /
Poland's General Anders and one of the biggest "What Ifs?" of WW2 [31]
Ok, sorry I misunderstood. Still don't quite agree with you but that's ok.
I'm not pro-Russian if anything i'm anti-Russian and definitely anti-Soviet but propagating a historical lie that West won the war or that Russia would not win without the West is just wrong.
Ok, that's fine. However, I totally disagree with you on Soviet being able to win the war on their own.
You're forgetting the brutality of the Soviet system where indoctrination, internal spies, etc always kept an eye on the soldiers. Millions of the soldiers were not Russians but minorities forced into the service. Many were fighting out of fear of either them or their relatives being punished and even executed by the communists. Don't forget that Bolshevik revolution happened when the Russian population was exhausted and starving under the Tsar regime while fighting a "far away" war. The tsarist soldiers were exhausted, discontent, starving and many joined the rebellion.
My contention is that had the war gone on for a longer period and had the Soviet gotten NO help from the West whatsoever, it's quite possible that a similar rebellion would've come about in Soviet Union all over again, this time not against the Tsar but against Stalin. Although the Russians "understood" and supported this war much more, millions of minorities did not, or simply didn't care as much. They just wanted food on their tables and to get away from the Stalin's terror regime. Today the Russians wouldn't be able to control their troops in a similar way. ...but that's a totally different subjetct...
Go read about "Deep Encirclement" and "Elastic Defense" Russian doctrines that were the most advanced in all theatres, tanks like KV-85 or IS-3, Katyushas ... Russians had everything the Allies had and more..
I might look into some of those books as I enjoy history.
Having said that, no reason for you to tell me "Dream on and learn history while at" - maybe you don't mean it but it sounds quite belittling. I majored in electrical engineering and history (quite a mix ;) in Sweden and felt they're pretty to the point and unbiased. Always tried to show both sides of the story; it's hard to do sometimes but I never felt the Russian (or other) side's accomplishments in any of he wars were being diminished.
After moving to the States I went back to school and got an aviation degree, again signed up for many history classes because I enjoy it. ..and I felt the history taught here was very unbiased as well. If anything the US universities are controlled by very leftists, usually "it's all America's fault" professors so trust me, they would be the last ones to claim America won the war singlehandedly.
However, once again I felt they always showed both sides of the story whether discussing the late help in liberations of the concentration camps, the Dresden bombings, the Russian war efforts, the atomic bombs, etc, etc. In fact often I was amazed at how hard the Professors and many students came down on America. Either way, I didn't feel brainwashed in any way.
Then I joined the military here and I won't get too deep as I'm actually still a "part timer" in the National Guard but I separated a few years ago from active duty - it's all in the aviation field and it's pretty normal to separate after 10+ years to pursue civilian jobs while maintaining a part time Guard status (unless you want a Pentagon job, then you become a 'lifer' - don't think so).
Well again, different classes, tactics and obviously many of us talked about present and past conflicts and I didn't see any "victory-hogging" - I think people just want to do the best they can and move on. I always saw respect for the enemy whether we talked about Russians, Iraqis or Afghanis. Of course you'll find nut cases every now and then but they truly are a very tiny minority. ..and they're usually despised because they make lives miserable for other Americans out there who're still in harms way.
Because i dont like the West "hogging" the victory when they were just a sideshow, having been abroad i've got a good idea as to how a typical Western European views history and its almost as focked up as hardcore Soviet versions.
Fair enough although I think some of that "hogging of the victory" you mentioned is simply somewhat nationalistic BS'ing we all see and sometimes gladly participate in after a few drinks in our home countries. Whether drinking some beer, vodka, wine, sake, or jui - deep inside we all like to exaggerate our achievements and diminish the enemies' accomplishments.
I've seen it in Sweden (history-wise - the weapons are pretty rusty there lol) and Norway, the UK, Germany, the US, Japan and China. To say there's some "victory hogging" conspiracy in the West is probably a little far-fetched.
So let's just agree to disagree on this one.
