Study / Wroclaw or Krakow or Bialystok to study in Poland? [36]


As a student, I would almost certainly be happier in a place where my money went a lot further. And it's going to go about 50% further in Białystok than in Wrocław or Kraków.

I used to study in San Diego, a city with LOTS to do, but spent my weekends in Baja and Sonora, where my dollar went ten times as far at the time. You could get a whole lobster dinner with a pina colada in Ensenada for the price of a burrito and a cup of horchata in San Diego. At the time, Ensenada was a sleepy navy port with "little to do" compared to San Diego. But on my budget, there was A LOT more to do that I could afford.

So it comes down to how much money the OP can budget. If they have 1000 PLN at their disposal, then Białystok is the only option. Life in Wrocław or Kraków would be all but impossible. If they have 4000 PLN to spend, then Wrocław may well be the better option.

Study / I'm going to study in Poland for 6 months and I want to know the costs of living [7]

@Ziemowit

Per month.

Study / Wroclaw or Krakow or Bialystok to study in Poland? [36]


Many of those things to do are beyond a student's budget in Wrocław and Kraków. Wrocław is by far the best city in Poland to live in if you have abundant cash and can take advantage of all the city has to offer. Much better than Warsaw, or even Kraków, in my opinion. But if I were on a smaller, fixed budget, I would consider the eastern cities, Rzeszów, Lublin and Białystok, where my money would go much further than in Wrocław. So even though Białystok may have less to do in general, it may actually have more to do on a tight student budget.

I was often in Białystok, too, and though I found it a bit provincial and backward, it was nowhere near as backward as you describe. If you want to feel what the eighties were like, go to Minsk, or, better yet, Grodno. Now that is like going back in a time machine. Really, the only things that I noticed in Białystok were the architecture (or lack thereof), the more visible religiosity, and the presence of old women selling things on the sidewalks. But Wrocław has its share of all of the above, so it's mainly a difference of degree.

Work / WORKING. STUDYING AND DOING BUSINESS IN POLAND AS INTERNATIONAL STUDENT [15]


Practically impossible. Make your plans on the very safe assumption that you will never be able to earn a single penny during your stay in Poland. If you need to earn to learn, Poland is certainly not a viable option for you. You will run out of money and have to return to your home country before you finish your studies. Anyone who says that non-EU students can easily find work in Poland and support themselves during their studies is lying.

Study / I'm going to study in Poland for 6 months and I want to know the costs of living [7]

@Teymurzade

About 360 PLN per person in a two or three person room

About 650 per person in a single room.

Anywhere from 600 to 1000 PLN for a single room in a private setting with shared bath, all inclusive.

Study / Wroclaw or Krakow or Bialystok to study in Poland? [36]


I hosted three Erasmus students when I lived in Wrocław. To say that they were very serious about their projects in Poland would be an understatement. Obsessed is more like it.

Also, you seem to imply that the cost of living in Wrocław is lower than in Kraków. I have not found that to be the case. In any case, the OPs money is going to go a lot further in Białystok than in Wrocław, and their lifestyle will consequently be a bit more comfortable.

Nor did I find Białystok anywhere near as "dangerous" as you seem to imply. It's a Polish city like any other in terms of safety. It might not be a pretty city, but it is not the Wild Wild East. It's more attractive than Katowice or Łódź. Avoid drunken people, and avoid alcohol yourself, and you'll be fine. In Poland, violence is almost always caused by drunks.

Study / Wroclaw or Krakow or Bialystok to study in Poland? [36]

@erasmustudent

I'm going to have to disagree with Harry here. While I love Wrocław, and lived there for eight years myself, it is not a city that is particularly known for trade or finance. Almost everything interesting in finance happens in one city: Warsaw. As for trade, three cities stand out: Poznań, Gdańsk and Białystok. Białystok is the most interesting of these because it is the center for trade not only with the Baltic States, but, more importantly, with Russia.

Yes, Wroclaw and Kraków are the most beautiful cities in Poland, but they are also the most expensive, except for Warsaw. Białystok may be a run-down provincial outpost with little charm, but the cost of living there is substantially lower. On your budget, a lot of the things that make Wrocław and Kraków such attractive cities are beyond your reach anyway. The quality of life you can afford may well turn out to be higher in Białystok than in those cities. Most of all, housing will be substantially cheaper and probably easier to find in Białystok than in Wrocław and Kraków.

The area around Białystok is very beautiful if you are into nature. There are extensive wetlands, old-growth forests and lots of lakes. Canoeing on the Czarna Hańcza River, the Augustowski Canal, and the Biebrza and Narew Rivers through wetlands of the Czerwone Bagno was one of the best vacations I have had in my life. If you are a bird-watcher, it is a dream vacation.

Law / Do foreign students graduated from Polish university need work permit before finding job? [24]

The only answer that counts is the one you would get by asking at the Foreigners Office at the Provincial Headquarters. They are the one making the decision.

Study / Looking for suitable English secondary school in Warsaw [17]


I am trying to deter him. As well I should, as studying in Poland is generally a very poor investment for foreign students. I take no pleasure in naive, desperate and gullible people being cheated of their savings and the best years of their lives.


Expecting a different answer to the same question is a hallmark of insanity.

Study / Looking for suitable English secondary school in Warsaw [17]

@Nathans

Like Maketis said, it's a complex situation.

More than anything, it has to do with the practicalities and purpose of these courses. Funding for education is very tight in Poland, and the lion's share of the funding, and the attention, go to full-time studies for Polish students in Polish-language courses. The English courses, with few exceptions, are designed primarily to raise cash for the university: cash that will be largely reallocated to those studying in full-time Polish-language courses and to Polish scholars doing their research (and for lining the pockets of select university administrators). This is cash with no strings attached, the holy grail of university administrators everywhere.

This means that little time, money and thought are spent of the English-language courses themselves. They are often organized and taught by lower-level instructors, and the resources they have for more practical aspects of the course are limited. This is particularly true for practical and laboratory classes in science and technology courses.

The second reason is that the target students do not really care about the quality of the degree they earn, rather than just earning a degree "in Europe", which, they believe, rightly or wrongly, will be more valuable than a degree from a good university elsewhere. A good part of these students are middle-class, spoiled, primarily Arab kids who are sent abroad by their parents for exposure to Western culture (the ultimate idea is that they will then be able to further their family's business ambitions abroad. The rich ones can send their kids to better, more expensive schools in the West. The schools in Poland and eastern Europe meet a market need for the less wealthy. Quality of education is not a primary concern of theirs.

A second group is Westerners who cannot gain admissions to better schools in the West, either because they have performed poorly in secondary schools, or because they cannot afford it. This is a mixed group, with some having serious academic ambitions, and others being hopeless slackers.

Then there are the students from the third-world countries, most of whom view studying in Poland as an easy way to enter the EU. They don't care in the least about the quality of education, as most abscond within a semester or two, after they figure out that there is no work for them in Poland.

So it is a combination of the students not caring about the quality of education, and the schools not caring about the quality of students, as long as they bring in cash.

Sadly, those students who do care about the quality of education basically get ripped off. It's sort of a scam. The universities promise their students that it is easy to find part-time work during their studies, and full-time employment afterward. The gullible, desperate and naive students fall for it, ending up stuck in the position of having to abandon a failed investment, or of chasing good money after bad. In either case, the university still makes out.

By the way, there are plenty of schools like this all over the developed world. I am ashamed to admit that, when I was in graduate school in San Diego, I used to work as an instructor at one of the "country club" schools for stinking rich Arabs and Japanese. A total waste of time, academics-wise, as the students didn't give a flying duck about biology or chemistry. But, for me, the pay was very enticing. The only job requirements were dependably showing up in suit and tie, and the ability to resist the strong urge to lose your cool and say that this was all a load of BS. A lot easier and more lucrative than writing "masters theses" for them, which is how I broke in.

Study / Looking for suitable English secondary school in Warsaw [17]


If he doesn't speak fluent Polish, then there is no point in going to university in Poland. The courses taught in English are almost all a total joke, and the degree is worthless. It's a complete waste of time and money. The only programs worth taking in Poland are in Polish language only, and Polish is a very difficult language that takes many years to learn,

Study / Student from Nepal travelling to Poland with dependent for further studies. Any job? [87]

@newarma93

Your "consultant" is lying and is probably a criminal that just wants to steal your money. There are no jobs for foreign students in Poland. If you need to support yourself and your family back home, then Poland is not the country for you. Try one of the richer countries.

Life / What items is Poland's market missing? [20]


Laughing, because I'm drinking a glass of ice tea right now, made exactly as you described. The beverage has to be pre-refrigerated or else it will melt the ice and dilute the drink. The ice is not there so much as to make the drink cold, as to keep it cold. FYI, current temperature outside is -4 C. Cloudy with a slight chance of flurries.

Life / What items is Poland's market missing? [20]


Yes, it's very true,and not a myth. And practically every American that visits Europe complains about this. Americans like their drinks ICE cold. Even in winter. And no, most Polish shops have their refrigerators set nowhere near cold enough for American tastes. The drinks you buy in Żabka, etc., are pi$$ warm by American standards. There was only ONE shop I ever found in the old town of Wrocław that sold drinks cold enough for me,and sometimes I'd walk clear across town to buy a drink there. Apparently, Poles like their soft drinks to be substantially warmer than beer. And about ice, the average American consumes hundreds of times more ice than the average European.


They are a default, built-in permanent feature in the States. The windows are designed specifically to include them (American windows are designed completely different than European windows). And the doors are more often than not all double doors, with a screen door on the outside. The screens are metal and they last for many decades. Another missing thing that Americans instantly notice when in Europe.


They don't work at all. All it takes is the tiniest hole for mosquitoes to find their way in.

No what I do miss here in the States are trains and trams. Rail service in the US is very limited and very expensive. Not for the budget traveler.

Life / What items is Poland's market missing? [20]

@Maciek_G

There's only three things that I missed as an American during my stay in Poland: 1) window screens. My God, what a difference they make in quality of life, just being able to sleep at night during the summer. No wonder Poles are so grumpy. 2) Cold non-alcoholic beverages in stores. Extremely hard to find in Poland. Drinking pi$$-warm soft drinks is something I never could get used to, even after 12 years. Might as well just drink pi$$-warm ***** at least it's free. 3) Large shoes. If you have big feet in Poland, you're royally screwed. And no, they won't order them for you. You have to buy online.

Work / Finance Work in Poland - is it hard for a non-Polish speaking person? [35]


It looks like (yet another) bot-generated list based on unweighted or poorly weighted self-reported selective data of little utility. It does not appear to have any human editorial input, which would have been costly. Useless lists like this litter the internet because they are so cheap to generate. It's rather haphazard, and doubtlessly does not match any other ranking list, especially any created by competent humans. The marketing department at Kozminski stumbled across it and are capitalizing on it, and on the naivite of anyone reading their marketing materials.

The 320,000 PLN per annum figure is bot-generated nonsense. Like you said, the jobs available for inexperienced entry-level workers are in SSCs and BPOs, and are poorly paid. And you are right about the jobs being boring and dead-end. These jobs are outsourced specifically because they couldn't find anyone willing to do them in the source countries. Mind-numbing grunt work. And also because paying low wages is the highest, and often only, motivation at work.

Yes, title inflation is extremely common in outsourcing centers, mainly to attract people dumb enough to think that that "senior analyst" would look great on a resume. Quality employers are hip to this and therefore do not value SSC/BPO experience very highly. And, like you said, there is no ladder to climb. You're stuck and forgotten in a windowless basement white-collar sweatshop with yard-high stacks of printouts in your in basket. It might be a step up for some desperate Dalit from Delhi, but for a well-educated person from a Western country, it's career suicide, or at least career coma.

Normally I don't recommend enrolling in the School of Hard Knocks, but some people actually do need to learn the hard way, and Comric appears to be one of them. It won't be pretty, and it won't be fun, but it's no skin off my back.

Work / Finance Work in Poland - is it hard for a non-Polish speaking person? [35]


You're contemplating buying a place for 500,000 PLN in the center of Warsaw and you are worried about the cost of a silly phone call????? There's something fundamentally fishy here. Read your previous posts and ask yourself why it was that one poster thought you were a troll and another that you were a simpleton.

Work / Finance Work in Poland - is it hard for a non-Polish speaking person? [35]


Of course not, silly boy. It's probably the worst place.


Of course she didn't, silly boy. Why ever would you even ask her?

You said you have a masters that was research intensive, and can't figure out the appropriate way to get definitive answers to simple basic questions about admissions policy at a particular university, depending instead on your girlfriend and an anonymous internet forum? Are you kidding me?


Aha! Yet another victim of the classic "Polish girl wants to go home to be with family and is convincing her totally clueless foreign boyfriend that he will be able to make a go of it in Poland" story. You'll find countless variations on that them in the archives of this forum, always with tragic endings.

Wake up and smell the coffee, kid. It is extremely unlikely that a move to study, live or work in Poland would be in your best interest at this stage of your career. It's extremely unlikely that you will not end up seriously damaged by such an ill-advised move. Get competent advice from highly experienced professions in your field. I'm afraid that your head is so messed up with "love" and other romantic silliness that you are bound to make the mistake of a lifetime. In Poland, when reality $hits, it wipes it a$$ with poor suckers like you.

You seriously need to grow up and start acting like a responsible adult instead of like a love-struck thirteen-year-old. And you should reconsider your relationship with a woman who so easily manipulated you into committing career suicide. You're not mature enough for an adult relationship.

Work / Finance Work in Poland - is it hard for a non-Polish speaking person? [35]


You say that you are seriously interested in attending this school, but are asking a question like this on an anonymous internet forum. If you are not competent to quickly and easily obtain a definitive answer for a simple question like this from an authoritative source, then there is something seriously wrong.

Polonia / Volunteers from Poland in Novorossiya [90]

@mafketis

Indeed. A century of hell was unleashed upon the whole world by a certain Serbian nationalist. How many million people died because of his bullets?

Work / Polish PLN bank account for foreign company constituted under civil law (Spółka cywilna) [5]

@dominiks

Deutsche Bank is one possibility. They have branches in Poland:

db.com/poland/index_en.html

Study / Poznan University of Economics or University of Warsaw ? [25]

Oh, one more thing, the university in Cieszyn has very nice dorms right next to the study halls. I have stayed in them myself and was quite impressed, A lot nicer, cheaper and more convenient than you would find in the bigger cities, where the universities don't have campuses, and things are spread out throughout the city.

Study / Poznan University of Economics or University of Warsaw ? [25]


Wish you had said that earlier, because it changes everything. It may be that your parents idea is not as harebrained as I first though, just that they are going about it a bit wrong.

First, the bad news. With your current grades and your current level of Polish, it is probably going to be very difficult to get into a serious Polish-language program at a top-notch Polish university like the University of Wrocław. And, if by some stroke of luck you did get accepted, it would be difficult to keep up even if you worked your butt off. The drop-out rate at Polish universities is extremely high, with about half of the students quitting after the first year, and only a third going on to finish their degree. Frankly, I don't have much confidence in you making the cut until you learn some better study habits and improve your Polish, and that's going to take time. But I do have confidence that you can do it if you apply yourself and work hard.

Now, the good news. Warsaw is an expensive place to live, and, in my opinion, not a very pleasant city. The pleasant cities are Kraków, Wrocław and Toruń. The cost of living is slightly lower in these cities than in Warsaw, and the quality of life is, again, in my opinion, a lot higher. You could consider spending a year in one of these cities studying "General Studies" with the primary aim of improving your work habits and Polish, and learning about life in Poland. It would be a "throw away" year as far as academic credit is concerned, but it will give you a chance to work hard and make up for any deficiencies you have. My guess is that, if you excel, you will be a much more attractive candidate to a serious Polish-language academic program, in Warsaw or elsewhere. And that you would be able to handle the coursework they throw your way.

There is another possibility, though, that would make this all a lot easier on your parents budget. That is to study at the branch of Uniwersytet Śląski in Cieszyn. The university is a serious state university, like the ones I mentioned above. It is much smaller, and, in contrast to most Polish universities is situated on a compact campus just outside one of the loveliest little towns in Poland. Cieszyn is located right on the Czech border, and has a charming Polish half and a vibrant Czech half. It may be a little isolated from the rest of Poland, but it is only ten or fifteen miles away from a very large and exciting Czech city, Ostrawa. You could always catch the bus to visit Kraków, too. It's just a couple of hours away. And there is an express train to Warsaw, the Wisła express, from the next Polish town, Goleszów, which is within biking, and even walking distance from the campus.

Living in Cieszyn is going to cost about half what it does in Warsaw. It ain't NYC, but it is a culturally vibrant pair of small towns that have a lot to offer. And with Ostrawa within pi$$ing distance, and easy access to Kraków and Warsaw, you are not going to get bored before the year is up. Personally, I love Cieszyn, and spent at least two vacations a year there during my 12 years in Poland, and one year, I took four vacations there.

It has all the advantages of small town living, low cost and easy to get around, with none of the disadvantages, isolation and backwardness. The population is cosmopolitan and well educated on both sides of the border, and there is none of that peasant mentality you usually find in small towns.

I think taking a year in Cieszyn to do some acculturation and preparatory studies is more like what your parents would appreciate. It's much more realistic than enrolling in an low-quality English-language course, and it's a lot cheaper than Warsaw, Kraków and Wrocław, without having to sacrifice quality of life. In short, it is a better investment considering your present circumstances. Even if you do return to the States and do not get any academic credit recognized, which will probably be the case, it won't be a wasted year as you will return with better study habits and a better grasp of Polish, and the experience of living in "real" Poland instead of "fake" Warsaw. Talk this over with your parents.

Until then, read Polish voraciously to build your vocabulary, increase your reading speed and comprehension, and improve your sense of style.

The contact info for the university in Cieszyn is:

Uniwersytet Śląski w Katowicach
Wydział Etnologii i Nauk o Edukacji w Cieszynie
ul. Bielska 62
43-400 Cieszyn

tel. 338546103

weinoe.us.edu.pl

Best get moving on that now, as it will take some time to talk to the right people about putting together an appropriate one-year study plan for you.

Good luck!

Study / Poznan University of Economics or University of Warsaw ? [25]

@slavicradio1992

Your parents dollar will go a lot further in Chicago than in NYC, and life there is a lot more pleasant than in NYC. I lived there for five years myself, and loved it so much that I am going on vacation there this summer with two of my students.

Another question is, if your parents dream has been for you to live and study in Poland, why didn't they teach you the language? I take it you cannot speak and write Polish at a level that would enable you to apply for a Polish-language course in Poland. But then, you probably don't have the grades to get into one. Competition for the good Polish-language programs is pretty fierce, and the standards are rather high, and the courses are pretty rigorous.

Study / Poznan University of Economics or University of Warsaw ? [25]

@slavicradio1992

The University of Warsaw is OK, and even pretty good in some STEM fields. That is, for the full-time problems taught in Polish. The programs taught in English are a whole different story, and are a bit of a scam, I'm afraid. Of course they blew a gasket when you said you wanted to go to NYC. The cost of living there is exorbitant. The one thing you and your parents have probably not looked at is the possibility of getting financial aid, and low tuition or no tuition options like the one I mentioned above. But if they are intent on basically flushing their money down the toilet, there is little we can do to stop them. Too bad they they are flushing some of the best years of your life down that toilet, too. Some people have to learn the hard way.

Work / Why do businesses in Poland fail? [20]


In other words, he was incompetent and failed to do his research. He was probably, as you put it, "badly advised", which makes his failure 100% his own responsibility.

A higher bar for starting small businesses is not necessarily a bad thing. It probably reduces the proportion of businesses that eventual fail by weeding out the weak links in advance, saving everybody money and grief in the long run, including the wannabe businesspeople. 14000 PLN a year is not going to deter anyone with sufficient capital and business knowledge, and a strong, realistic business plan. It will deter the bottom feeders, though.

Sorry, I've heard more than enough hard-luck stories by failed businessmen to take their excuses without a huge grain of salt. Why face up to reality and blame yourself when it's easier to blame the government?

Work / Why do businesses in Poland fail? [20]

If you think that businesses elsewhere do not have to pay their fair share of taxes, you're delusional. If I had to apportion the responsibility of why businesses in Poland fail, I would assign 90% to incompetence and insolvency on the side of the businessperson, and only 10% to onerous governmental regulation and taxation. About the same as I would here in the US.

Work / Why do businesses in Poland fail? [20]

The biggest problem is insufficient capital to start the business, keep it running for the years it takes to turn a profit, and support oneself and one's family in the meantime.

Another big problem is unrealistic expectations, especially with regard to local demand, profit margins and the time it takes to turn a profit.

This all is mostly due to poor market research and poor business knowledge,

Essentially the same reasons why many small businesses everywhere fail.

A factor at work with returning Poles is that they have lost touch with trends in Poland, both financial and cultural, as they have been out of the country for many years, and even decades.

For foreigners, lack of knowledge about the culture is a big factor, as is not speaking the local language. Vastly underestimating the effort and cost of living and doing business in Poland is also common, as is vastly overestimating the demand for their products or services.

Both returning Poles and foreigners fall for the delusion that starting a business in Poland is a cheap, fast and easy way to become rich (or to be with their Polish wives and girlfriends who want to go back home). Almost everyone who has ever posted on this site that they are thinking about opening a business in Poland fits that description. I can't recall anyone who had a realistic business plan and the capital and knowledge to back it up.

Travel / Suggestion for nightlife in Poland [28]


It's a seedy overpriced low-class strip joint where you're likely to get robbed or ripped off or end up with the clap or worse. Avoid it like the plague.

Study / Poznan University of Economics or University of Warsaw ? [25]

@Atch

Those rules would apply to Polish students Polish-language courses at Polish state universities. And they are not rules, because the admitting university can choose to ignore them, and usually do, especially in the case of students in English-language programs applying to serious American universities.

None of my Polish students were ever able to have any of their work in Poland recognized at an American university. In fact, one of my students didn't even have his semester at another American university recognized when he transferred to a better university, and had to start from the beginning.

It's best to assume that none of your studies in Poland will be recognized except with PRIOR approval of the admitting university in the States. Getting recognition after the fact is daunting, at best, and often downright impossible. Good universities in the US manipulate their curricula and course descriptions specifically to make transferring credits extremely difficult in the best of cases. That is why, if you choose to go to a community college or feeder school, you should choose one that has a favorable agreement with the university you eventually want to transfer to.

Get competent academic counseling in the US, preferably from the university you plan on graduating from, and also the professional school you plan to attend. You're not going to find anything useful on the internet, because these things are university-specific, and, as Atch said, usually handled on a case-by-case basis.