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Posts by Vox  

Joined: 4 Feb 2015 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 10 Sep 2015
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Posts: Total: 172 / In This Archive: 115

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Vox   
25 Apr 2015
News / US slaps Poland in the face (Comey Poland) [92]

I might ask you the same question there, Vox! Your ripostes are far more infantile; they defy both simple logic as well as historical fact:-)You might want to consider to stop trolling!!

My dear fellow, old chap, why loosing composure and your nerve? It says more about you than me if you are trying to insult or belittle me instead of debating. I know you don't know much about facts or history and are able only to repeat few standard myths. However to stoop so low and resort to insults to hide your inadequacy badly reflect on your integrity. Personally I don't like to debate with clowns so I do implore you to keep the ugly side of your character out of this forum. By doing so you will perhaps restore some resemblance of decorum.

My question still stands. Who decided that Poles could do more to help the Jews? Some armchair warriors siting comfortably in the front of a fireplace 80 years after the fact? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but it has nothing to do with facts but everything to do with chutzpa!

I agree. Sadly, this still isn't the case. While visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau only a few months ago, a relative of mine who speaks a little Polish merely asked a groundskeeper on the site of the concentration camp where the information office was, only to be met with "Why do you people always have to keep reminding us?!",

Would that be the same relative who fed you to the brim with grandma's stories? It doesn't even make sense.
Vox   
25 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Vox, you seem not to understand sufficiently the history on which you pretend to expound!

Lyzko, please understand a single uppermost important fact, all what you have been presenting here cannot be really called a history. It is a "bastardised" version of the history. A product of decades of unopposed mythography, lies and granny stories being told and retold all over again and taken on face value without conducting any scientific research of the subject and hence without any real evidence to back it all up - colossus with legs of clay.

Vox, ol' fella, if post-War pogroms don't belong in a thread about the Holocaust, where then, pray tell??

Lyzko, dear friend, post-war pogroms belong in a thread about post-war pogroms of course.

use basic examples as instances of the Polish mentality vis-a-vis Jews living in their midst, and in their country, AFTER WORLD WAR II! Was it necessary to round up stray Jews, herd them together into an abandoned barn and burn them?!Don't see how ya can riggle outta that one:-)

Lyzko, would you be so kind and remind me when and where AFTER WORLD WAR II Jews were herded into a barn and burned?
Vox   
22 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Thanks for that article, you clearly think that there's a lot to it if you suggest we read it.

Actually I didn't, must have been a mod.

I disagree with his assessment of what Comey actually said.

I know and you disagree because you are crooked not for any other reason. I have quoted his words to show you that even people who are not very sympathetic towards Poland noticed Comey blunder.

I care as much about what Polonia think as more than a few members of Polonia care about accuracy in history.

You don't care about accuracy in history. You care about your own interpretation of history.

Vox, you make it seem as if the Jews volunteered out of willingness

Those Jews who volunteered to the Ghetto Police volunteered out of willingness to cut the best deal for themselves. Nobody forced them and there were no punishment for not joining.

Poland too must come clean and admit her sometimes complicit involvement in the Shoah.

You seem to be working under a false premise that a common ethnic background equals collective responsibility. The way of thought resembles the lines along the Nazis had been thinking. In fact society as a whole cannot be held collectively responsible for crimes some individuals committed even if they are a part of that society.

In Poland there were no organized political, social, paramilitary or military force that planed or carried out extermination of the Jews. There wasn't a Polish organization big or small that assisted Nazi Germany in carrying out their plans against Jews.

There were individuals, who would sell out Jews in hiding to Germans or criminals who preyed on Jews.
It seems that at the time only Poles cared about their Jews. A Polish underground organization send time after time missives to the allied governments about fate of the Jews. They were hardly believed and none cared enough to do something about it. Even American Jews closed their ears to plea for an intervention on the behalf of the Polish Jews.

that the post-War pogroms

Post-war pogroms do not belong in the thread about Holocaust.
Vox   
22 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Comey's actual comment made no reference to the country of Poland, only to some people from Poland.

Harry, Laurence Weinbaum director of the Israel Council on Foreign Relations disagrees with you:

Comey's reference to "the murderers and accomplices of Germany, and Poland," in a speech that was given at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum and adapted for an op-ed in The Post last week, suggested that in terms of responsibility for the Holocaust, Poles are somehow to be compared with the Germans (never mind the Austrians, whom Comey failed to even mention). Poland was the first nation in Europe to resist the German onslaught - and it did so, ferociously, both at home and in exile, from the first day of the war in 1939 when it was invaded until the last.

washingtonpost/opinions/confronting-chilling-truths-about-polands-wartime-history/2015/04/21/f0588dce-e782-11e4-aae1-d642717d8afa_story.html

Polonia is laughing at you Harry, you are nothing but a presumptuous sad clown.
Vox   
21 Apr 2015
History / When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? [557]

Perhaps you know something that archaeologists don't

I know something you don't know.Aerology cannot answer as to what was their ethnicity or what language those people spoke.

In any case, past inhabitants are irrelevant to current ownership

Particularly if those past inhabitants are only guessed past inhabitants.
Vox   
21 Apr 2015
News / US slaps Poland in the face (Comey Poland) [92]

Is that his way to suggest only Germans were to blame? How naïve.

Who else is there to blame? English? I'm not going argue with you on that point.
Vox   
20 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Vox, again, the Jews who joined the Sonderkommando, the Kapos and the Ghetto Brigades

Pure rubbish Lyzko, volunteering to the Ghetto Police wasn't perquisite for survival.

However, the war against the Jews was not one which the Jews waged against themselves.

The war against the Jews was not waged by the Poles and yet you are coming here with your virulent prejudice and unlearned "views" and readily are slandering all Poles for few bad apples. A measure you are refusing to apply equally to all bad apples regardless of their ethnicity. It is an unabashed racism and your words about good and bad on both sides are derived of meaning in the light of your conduct.

You and that chap Irving ought to sit down and have a historical relativism contest

It was uncalled-for, such a churlish insult says more about you than about me. I know now with whom I'm dealing with.
Vox   
20 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

The difference here, Harry & TheOther, is that the Jews were forced into concilliating with the enemy!

You are wrong as usual Lyzko, the Jews who joined the Ghetto Police volunteered. Nobody put the gun to their heads and made them do it.

What fueled those collaborationist Poles and others???

You mean to say that you don't know? Pry name more than ten of those alleged Polish collaborationists? Can you do it? Maybe you are just writing about things you know very little about and which for the most part are based on rumors and myths?

Primitive anti-Semitism, "fear" that the Jewish blood-libel myth was true!

Really? Do you know that for a fact or maybe you are just guessing basing your "opinion" on rumors and a general prejudice?

Educate yourself:
The Massacre in Jedwabne, July 10, 1941: Before, During, After - Marek Jan Chodakiewicz
After the Holocaust: Polish-Jewish Conflict in the Wake of World War II (East European Monograph)

Between Nazis and Soviets: Occupation Politics in Poland, 1939-1947
The Last Rising in the Eastern Borderlands:
The Ejszyszki Epilogue in its Historical Context

- available on line.
Vox   
19 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Yes and I am sure that the people around you would be all too happy to admit the wrong doing of Poles in the Holocaust...........

Why would he admit to anything? So it would add credibility to your attempts at whitewashing Germans by blaming everybody else around?
--------------------------------
You seem to be working under a false premise that a common ethnic background equals collective responsibility. The way of thought resembles the lines along the Nazis had been thinking.

Civilized people do not think in that way and if you are robbed by a German you can demand compensation from that particular German not from any German. Sounds fair? You people seem to have a problem in comprehending such a simple premise.

However there is a certain degree to which citizens are responsible for the actions of their state.
----------------------------------

If you have a choice, that is. The Nazis were not democratically elected, as you might know. It's always easy to demand the "good people doing the Christian thing" if you don't have to live under such a terror regime yourself. Mao, Pol Pot, ISIS, Stalin, Hitler ... they all have one thing in common: once they were in control, opposition from within was almost impossible and the slaughter began.

Contrary to Poles who according to you evidently had have a choice.
--------------------------------
Vox   
19 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

The reason that I'm unaware of any Nazi death camps in France is that there were never any there. All of the death camps and concentration camps with a death camp element were located in what is now Poland.

I don't know what you are talking about. A topic of the debate is

FBI Director James B. Comey Blames Poland for The Holocaust

.
Your individuals Poles allegedly taking part in the Holocaust do not even come into the picture. If you want debate them and the eastern bunny start a new topic. You seems to be obsessed with Poles and their alleged participation in the holocausts, just stop it. Lets talk about a prominent US. government official slandering an allied country.

Would you care to quote me in any way slandering Poland? Or is that just yet another of the things that exists only in your head?

Reread your posts and you will find it there. Comey named Poland next to Germany as a main perpetrator of the Holocaust. You went straight to talk about Poles taking part in the Holocaust and about death camps without clearly declaring your position on his words.

It is clear that you agree with him or you are so obsessed with your fetish topic that you do not care about anything else as long as you can indulge yourself posting about it like something possessed.

Even as late as several years ago, a Jewish acquaintance of mine from Warsaw, having recently returned to Poland, remarked that Polish Jews don't usually let on that they're Jews,for fear of having their car tires slashed!!! This was in 2009.

Are you sure it wasn't your friend grandma? It just sounds like one of those stories a grandma would tell.

Yes, but these were not on Polish territory and it is my understanding that the concentration camps on Polish soil are the subject of discussion here, no?

No, the subject od discussion is an US. official slandering Poland.

but carried out by the Poles, Ukrainians etc.

Yeah sure keep telling yourself that buddy.
Even if that would have been the truth (it is not) it wouldn't change a thing. It wouldn't have erased German responsibility for the Holocaust.

The fact that Poland didn't have a puppet gov't. installed by the Nazis such as Vichy France, Horthy's Hungary, Seyss-

You seems to be in some confusion as to what whats and which government was legal at the time. For example French government as well as Hungarian were both perfectly legal, and there was an unquestionable popular support for Hitler in Austria. Iron Guard was a political fraction of the Romanian political stratum - none were installed by the Nazi.

Also I would advise you to take a look at the German map of the region in 1942 and try to find Poland, if you can.
Vox   
18 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

As far as I'm aware, all of the Nazi death camps were located in what is now Poland.

Perhaps instead of taking part in the slandering of Poland you could somehow raise your awareness of those historical issues you seemingly claim to be unaware of and yet such a dim awareness of the subject debated didn't stop you from partaking in the aforementioned discussion.

claim that not a single Pole took part in the holocaust

What it has to do with slander? Would you conveniently claim unawareness of what has been said?
Vox   
18 Apr 2015
History / Was the holocaust by Germans in Poland the worse genocide in history? [210]

Are Eastern European countries being discriminated against? After all France is hardly ever mentioned in the context of the Holocausts. Instead Poland is being mentioned guide a bit.

Harry he clearly isn't talking about few individuals, either you are missing the point completely or by the token of your logic you are taking part in slandering Poland.
Vox   
17 Apr 2015
News / Polish people's criticism of European Union [104]

A result of wide opened borders in EU;

Indeed the best way to ensure everything is 100% safe would be a full control by a state.The police state for example. Something like that wouldn't have happened in the North Korea for example.

Merged: EU as an expriment that failed.

Everything is defined by its boundary.
Borders and limits define who we are and what we are and the same goes for nations or political entities!
If a human or a nation or a political entity is unable or unwilling to set clearly defined boundaries and limits and defend its integrity we can't talk about a serious case of dysfunctional personality. In a case of a political entity there is a newly coined or revived term - a failed state.

What is a failed state?
It is basically a state unable to fulfill its basic duties.
I know that EU never claimed to be a state but its main discriminant was lack of control on internal borders and more restrictive control on its external borders. In fact all that EU concept have been based on boundaries.

That particular and important function of the EU failed under an onslaught of illegal immigrants, would that means that EU itself is a failed experiment?
Vox   
16 Apr 2015
News / Polish people's criticism of European Union [104]

Gosc123456

in most Western EU countries, there are strong anti-EU political parties

There are two countries where a substantial part of the population is anti-EU, Britain and France, ah and Greece.

all Western EU countries, a majority of people want to get out

That sir is simply a myth.
Vox   
15 Apr 2015
UK, Ireland / Why English do not like Polish? [417]

Both are biased of course. Views on immigration should not be translated into views about Poles.This I tell you brother
you can have one without the other.
Vox   
7 Apr 2015
Life / Where can I find English books in Lublin? [13]

The fun part is when some religious people think I've gone way too far, even by their twisted standards, but others jump in to defend me.

Funnily enough you are criticizing someone else standards and calling them twisted. What more twisted than trolling and lying as a way of blowing off steam? Seek professional help.

This is going badly of topic, please respect the OP's thread.
Vox   
7 Apr 2015
News / Poland: A Successful case of low criminality in Europe? [97]

Is he still at large? Low criminality doesn't mean no criminality or no criminals.

Poland will become the same, you won't be able to stop it you joined the EU like idiots and signed your nation away.

As you did?
Vox   
6 Apr 2015
News / Poland: A Successful case of low criminality in Europe? [97]

I don't see connection between low criminality and immigration. Debating about potential immigration to Poland in the thread about Poland being a successful case of low criminality in Europe is misleading.

I would like to add that talking about potential immigration to Poland is clearly against the rules on PF.

This is the main reason why most of them plan to come back to their motherland one day.

Are you implying that Polish people have some kind of issue with ethnic minorities?
Vox   
30 Mar 2015
News / Poland: A Successful case of low criminality in Europe? [97]

it is because they export the crims

Hmm, According to statics Poland has been safer place than most long before criminals were offered an opportunity to buy attractive tours aboard. Again, in a certain country which is well known for its custom of putting the blame for all it problems on foreigners, Poles do not even register on any noticeable scale. Other than that criminal stats of the aforementioned country are by the way very impressive, no lagging behind in that regard keeping up with the best on the globe, yes sir.
Vox   
30 Mar 2015
News / Poland: A Successful case of low criminality in Europe? [97]

The great problem with crime statistics that people forget is that they are compiled only from crimes that were reported.Ridiculous to say that Polish women in Poland are 13 times safer than Swedish women in Sweden.

Ridiculous is what you are saying or rather implying. Unless you have some evidence to back up your claim.
Vox   
19 Mar 2015
History / The Riga Peace Treaty [64]

Barney I detect here a slight difference of opinions.

Public monuments in colonial Nairobi were visual links to the British empire, and served as a means of asserting imperial power. During this period, colonial memories and identities were inscribed into Nairobi's landscape by the dominant group, the elite of the European population. However, at the moment of Kenya's achievement of independence from colonial rule, such identities and assertions of power were challenged as statues were removed from the city

For the Kenyan novelist, playwright and essayist, Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, power through cultural subjugation was the principal tool of colonialism. The monuments of Nairobi can be read as a history of cultural artefacts used by the coloniser to dominate and subjugate the colonised.[/i]

Vox   
18 Mar 2015
History / The Riga Peace Treaty [64]

Dress it up anyway you want, Vox, Poland did exactly what she'd promised her Ukrainian allies she would not do and accepted 30 million in exchange for doing that.

That obvious attempt at humour failed miserably.
Vox   
18 Mar 2015
History / The Riga Peace Treaty [64]

It is ridiculous that any explanation need given as to why it's a bad idea to destroy these monuments.

What is bad in eradicating iconography of the colonial regime?

Poland stabbed its Ukrainian allies in the back and sold their country to the Soviets for 30 pieces of silver (ok, actually 30 million roubles in gold, but the principle is the same).

Incorrect:

Poland was to receive monetary compensation (30 million rubles in gold) for its economic input into the Russian Empire during the times of partitions of Poland.