History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


I don't know.
I let you compare Warsaw and Prague after WWII and income they generate now from tourism.
Also I'd like to hope that Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski would be able to write more. That's all.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]

I hope I repeat facts not communist propaganda, I really hope so.
Anyway I am not anti-British, just realist, I know their hands were tied 1939 and later as well.

But if you want to know what Polish people think about British, here is one story:

it is 1973, June 6, Poland plays England for qualification to World Cup '74 in Germany. The best Polish best player Lubanski scores a goal,
then he gets a ball and looks like he would be again in position to score. Then brutal faul by Roy McFarland and Lubanski's career is finished.

Poland goes on to qualify after memorable Wembley match, then goes to WC and finishes 3-rd without Lubanski. What could have been
if our best player was able to play? The history would be different.
I am not making any comparison to gen. Sikorski. It's just bad luck that accidents happen when England and Poland interests collide.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


I believe US did not have a pact with Poland, but maybe you know better.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Precisely. I believe it was called Drang nach Osten:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drang_nach_Osten

Yes, they did not know where they would be playing, what shame.

Regarding England, if they had no intention of fighting in 1939 they should have done another Munich. But wait they did another Munich, didn't they?

Only it was 6 years later in Potsdam, after Polish people were killed and Poland was ruined. Thanks Brits!

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


It is dishonest to sign an agreement that one does not plan to keep. Both Westerplatte and Warsaw (twice 1939 and 1944) had to capitulate because of lack of ammunition, water, food and medicines. Because of English assurances Poland was pushed into war.

And talking about hypothetical situations:

Suppose there was a soccer tournament in Poland and Ukraine, suppose that Germany were playing in Ukraine, where would you think the German team would be headquarted? In Lwow? Kiev? Maybe Krakow if they wanted to be close to tens of thousands of fans that surely were going to follow them?

Guess again.

Invitation to Gdansk: "Hey people come with your team, rediscover your roots".... and stay?

Hans Frank said that thousand years will have to pass for Germany to forget the WWII. Looks like 67 is mighty for some.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, August 25, 1939

Article I:
(...) Contracting Parties become engaged in hostilities (...) in consequence of aggression (...), the other Contracting Party will at once give (...) all the support and assistance in its power.

Aricle iV
The methods of applying the undertakings of mutual assistance provided for by the present Agreement are established between the competent naval, military and air authorities of the Contracting Parties.

Article V
Without prejudice (...) to give each other mutual support and assistance immediately on the outbreak of hostilities (...).

Again, you're right, there is nothing about borders, only immediate assistance that was 'established' and not given. I was not able to find the secret ammendment that named Germany. So this is how you want to defend English conscience? Wow! Or maybe you want to defend this part of proud British history:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time

Just open the Archives!!!!!! Or we need to wait 200 years?

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


You are kidding, right?

Otherwise I tend to understand you said that Poland emerged from WWII with enhanced class of inteligentia, enriched materially?

btw, Poland was not as divided as you may have heard. Have you heard the joke about the left and right side of Israeli politics?

It goes like this:
"the Israeli left come form eastern Europe (Poland, Russia, whatever), and the right? They graduated from Polish gimnazjums."

You heard about Betar? There is a movie coming out.


You got me Harry. I cannot quote the article, but I believe it said that "western borders (or borders with Germany) were guaranteed",

do you agree with this? If yes, they still didn't keep the treaty, we did not get to keep borders with Germany.

How ridiculous it would be if we did, but even England could not insist on it however they tried, didn't they?

There must be a reason why 70 years (and counting) the British archives from WWII are sealed in Polish matters.
Do you agree it is related to the terrible deal that Poland got after WWII? I think so.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Let's see. How about this: "England guarantees Polish borders", then "we guarantee borders but we did not say THE Borders.
Poland will have A border, will it not?"

Of course it depends what the meaning of the word "IS" is.

The answer to the thread question:

Poland got a terrible deal in any term, land included, in the postwar settlement. Just few facts:
for 90% of Poles the war ended in Poland in 1989,
just ask any Pole if they would rather have Wroclaw and Szczecin or Lwow and Wilno.

USA, Canada / Polonia who needs help with Polish Documentary [27]

Another provocateur working hard to diminish the image of Poland. Who pays you? Never mind I know.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Of course he/she meant extortion (Extortion, also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction is a criminal offence which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion.) Definitely we have it here regarding 'summary' payment requests.

But someone mentioned that this is for individual claims. In such case there is no issue (17 pages of polemics about nothing, isn't it funny), Poland already has laws regarding individual properties. Actually my friend told me about how he got his house back in mid 90s (more than 15 years ago). His family (Polish Catholic) was extremely well of and owned several buildings in pre-war Warsaw. The family left Poland in September '39 and never returned after the war (very smart decision avoiding sure prosecution by (very likely) Mr. Michnik's brother, and after one day trial death penalty...). Anyway my friend explained the laws this way: a property owner can receive the property back, if 1. the building is still standing (no claims to lots), and 2. the building is in government hands (if it was sold to private owner, who purchased it in good faith according to current laws, it's final). Out of all possessions only one building that my friend's family owned in pre-war Warsaw qualified and sure enough it was returned to him after few months court case. Since at that time he lived in the US he sold it to family still living in Poland. Case closed. And as I said it was mid 90's.

So now we are back to 'summary' requests by Jewish organizations. It would help to include some numbers into Swiss situation, which as somebody previously mentioned is very similar. The initial claims were for Jewish money held in Swiss banks illegally after WWII and the amount mentioned was 'in excess of 10 billion dollars.' The Swiss questioned the amount. An independent auditing of bank's books was ordered and the Swiss appropriated 500 million dollars for the audit. Before the results of this audit was even publish the Jewish organizations started attacking the audit as not-fair, wrong, etc despite having a large number of Jews performing the audit (along with some Swiss of course). Hastily a 'summary' agreement was reached to pay Jewish organizations 1.25 billion dollars and the sum was paid. How were the money spent is not a subject of this thread.

The results of the audit? In all Swiss banks 140 million dollars were found that could be traced to Jewish property.
So let's stop this discussion about nothing.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


OK, you asked ironsite, here it is:

Antisemite: a person disliked by a Jew.

Precise enough for you?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

You know that you sound really silly claiming there were countries friendly to Jews, only they didn't accept Jews (maybe that's why there were

friendly?) Nice firends you found. I like you very much too, but stay away!

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Absolutely right!
I believe the claims are for the time period after September 1, 1939 (property ownership changes caused by WWII).
Poland was a double victim of this war, first attacked by Germany and Soviet Union in 1939, and left to fight alone despite international
treaties, then again sold out at the end of WWII and given along with Cental Europe to Soviet Union as gift for defeating Germany.
There was no free Polish administration in Poland until 1989. The legal Polish goverment in London was delegalized by Western powers in 1945.
The first Polish administration in 50 years implemented legal procedures for former property owners that work very well.
There will be no summary 'reparations'.
If anybody needs any convincing, please look at Swiss claims.

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

I believe the jokes were supported by US establishment after WWII as an excuse for abandoning Poland. Poland was the 4th allied power, after Soviet Union, US and England and before France. But it was France who got the permanent seat on the Security Council. To defend this betrayal it was convenient to tell people that Polish people were 'bad', stupid and everything in between.

Another issue is Poles in Hollywood movies, in 50s very famous movies had Polish elements, like Someone Like It Hot, The Westside Story, On The Waterfront, The Streetcar Named Desire, etc. Then it ended, why?