History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


So you do agree Poland was controlled by Moscow?


I already told you.

Most of Russia's Jews from 300 years ago were already either thrown out of Russia (2/3 of them) or they were put in obscure places of the vast USSR territory (other 1/3 of Jews) where Moscow felt they weren't a threat to heart of Russian culture near Moscow.

Also Poland did not throw out all of its Jews after 1945. On the contrary, they were still in Poland and even in the Polish government.

As per the Pale Settlement, Russia saw the Russia-Poland border area as a place to push Russia's Jews to also.

Also how do you know exactly what orders Moscow gave Poland about Jews?


Only if you're a Soviet propagandist like you do you view it as a "bold" statement. Everyone thought after WWII that there would be free democratic elections in Poland. But Moscow never allowed it.

Do you think Pope John Paul II thought Poland had free elections under Moscow rule?


Yes and its also possible that I'm Santa Claus.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


BS

So you think the US and Western Europe didn't think Moscow was controlling Poland?

Have you read the book "I saw Poland betrayed"?

Poland was occupied by Communism which it would not have had if wasn't for Moscow.

So you're saying Poland could have done things that Moscow did not like? Like having American troops on Polish soil?

So you think John Paul II thought Poland was not being controlled by Moscow?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

What RCC properties are you talking about specifically?

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]




So you never heard of puppet governments?? Don't tell me a guy like you who is interested in history never heard of puppet governments??

The Communist Poles who oppressed other Poles, were simply puppets of Moscow. A predator nation having a proxy puppet government in the nation its controlling has been going on since the beginning of aggressor nations controlling other nations. Its actually quite wise and effective for the predator nation to do.

The Nazi Germans did the same with puppet governments with nations that they controlled. They had a select group of people in the nation they were controlling, control that nation on their behalf with a carrot and stick approach. They would select people in that given country and basically tell them they and their whole country would be harmed if they didn't carry out their orders and they also gave them the carrot incentive where they would be given priviledges and power over the other people in their country if they followed their Nazi orders.

Moscow is now doing this today in Chechnya. It has empowered select ethnic Chechens acting as a puppet government to control all the other Chechens.

Indeed Moscow doesn't have to worry about getting its hands dirty in Chechnya when it can have ethnic Chechens do its dirty work. But I am sure that if these ruling Chechens went against Moscow, that Moscow would send in its troops to straighten them out.


Indeed the Soviet Union would have had a hell of a problem on its hands if all of the Polish ruling class rebelled against Moscow. But the Polish ruling class pretty much had fresh memories of what the Soviets did to Poles who were "a hell of a problem" and against Moscow. Its called KATYN.

The Polish ruling class had two choices.

1) They could rule like dictators against their fellow Poles, but at least be gauranteed their lives from Moscow and even have a comfortable empowered life in Poland with Moscow's blessing.....

OR

2) They could be rounded up by Soviet troops and become victims of another KATYN.

If you were them, WHAT would you choose??

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Hopefully the restitution will go directly to individual Polish and Jewish property owners (who have throroughly verified their claims) and not to some special interest group.

Hopefully innocent Polish taxpayers will not have to pay a dime for this and the restitution money comes from Berlin and Moscow who were the ones who created this situation.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Where in my simple question "Do Polish Jews first identify themselves as Polish or Jewish?" do you think I'm really asking about someone's fate in WW2 or "pretending to imagine something worse?

If I wanted to know about somebody's fate in WW2 or something else, I would have asked a question about that. There is no trick question here. Stop being paranoid.

Why don't you just answer my question? Its a simple question.


I ask about why you keep bringing up the murder of the Jews because it has nothing to do with the status of who pays for these properties today in reference to the innocent Polish taxpayers today who could be on the hook for them. If anything, those homes and the homes of Poles were destroyed or taken because of what Berlin or Moscow did in Poland, not because of what today's Poland's taxpayers (who would have to pay for these homes if Jewish groups get their way) did about these properties. So why don't you ask those countries about reparations? When will Poland get reparation for all the land and property it lost which was a result of Berlin and Moscow? Or does that concern you at all?

Jews or Poles should individually follow the proper procedures in getting restitution for these properties. If they were destroyed in the war, all construction costs, maintenance costs and past taxes should be payed on them. But frankly speaking, people seeking money for these properties, should first go after the countries that caused this situation for compensation. That is the only fair thing to do.


I reference Russia because Russia has a lot to do with Poland and Poland's history.

Moscow/Russia is not some obscure country on the other side of the world when it comes to Poland and Poland's history. Its intertwined with Poland's history. Heck it owned Poland more then the Polish people did since 1795.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Just like every single Russian Jew was Russian and considered by Russians to be good Russians?


Wow you sound paranoid.

So its racist to prevent another Swiss Bank situation, where International Jewish groups went after Swiss banks for money that Jewish victims felt were owed them, only to have these Jewish groups pocket most of the Jewish victims' money? This is what the Jewish victims reported, not me.

Did these Jewish victims have a racist agenda for reporting this?

So at the end of the day, you have no problem with big special interest political organizations getting money that is due individuals instead of those individuals getting the money? That's not nice :(


Sounds good!

Delph give me your address and phone number and I'll meet you on July 2nd.

Maybe you and I can have some drinks and have a little chit chat on some things.

:)


Not sure what you mean by that, but I do defend against anti-Polish lies and slander on the internet.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

Really? Every single one of them? LOL

Well you are right actually. I am not Polish. I am American.

But if I was a citizen of Poland and I had a problem with the Polish government, I certainly would not disrespect the Polish government and Polish people by having foreign political entities intervene on my behalf against the Polish goverment, like Polish Jews are.

International Jewish groups went after Switzerland for money Jews felt were due individual Jews, only to have a small amount of the money actually end up going to the individual Jews they said they were working on behalf of. Most of the money stayed in the treasury and bank accounts of those Jewish political groups that went after the Swiss.

Nobody wants to see a repeat of this.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


Well if the Polish army went along with the Soviets, it appears it did so to stay in the good graces of the Soviets.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


Did the Polish Army have the option of doing what Moscow did not like?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


We already know about Jews being murdered. But what does that have to do with this issue?

These people can make a claim but they should do it individually and not bring a political organization into the matter which I'm sure didn't have its name on any of the property titles. Also if will they be required to pay for the upkeep and past taxes on the property?

Do Polish Jews identify themselves first as being Polish or Jewish?

Also can Palestinians bring claims against Jews who now live in their property?

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


Most Poles don't come to this website since they see its just a bash Poland website for trolls like you. They are also mostly on Polish language websites anyway.

America had diplomatic relations with the governments located in the territories of Soviet Bloc nations like Poland, E. Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc because they "were the only game in town" so to speak. America wanted to have some relation with the people of those countries despite how imperfect the government representing them or vehicle of communication was.

But that still does not mean those countries were not controlled by Moscow. Moscow allowed some liberties to these countries (like allowing them to communicate with the West), but that does not mean Moscow did not control them.

Nobody here claiming that Moscow did not control these countries will answer the simple question. Could the governments of these countries do things that Moscow didn't like?? Why wasn't capitalism put into place prior to 1990 in Poland and the rest of the Soviet Bloc nations?

Why wasn't East Germany allowed to unite with West Germany before 1989? I'm sure the people of both those countries wanted to unite from 1950-1989.

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]

The US thought that Poland and other Soviet Bloc countries like Hungary, Eastern Germany, Czechoslovakia were not controlled by Moscow?

That's why Ronald Reagan told Gorbachev to "Tear down this wall"?

That's why Russian troops were in all these countries?

Good God its scary to know that an "Enemy Within" like you lives in Poland.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


That "Historical anti-semitism of Poland" must have also been the reason why most of the world's Jews CHOSE to live in Poland for 1000 years. LOL

Jonny who do you care more about? Jews or Poles?


Russia was part of the USSR and the USSR favored Russia over all other nations. Why do you think Moscow was chosen as the capital of the USSR and the USSR imposed the Russian language on its republics? Even Stalin spoke highest of the Russians of all the USSR countries.


The USSR was a huge nation. So even if the Jews were pushed to the outer area of the USSR/Russia Pale settelment area, that was good enough for Catharine the Great and other Russian leaders who wanted to push Jews away from the heart of Russian society in the Moscow area.

Since Catharine the Great, Moscow made sure to push Jews out of Russia. If they weren't pushed out of Russia the Russians made sure the Jews were at least pushed out of the heart of Russia/Moscow area. Do you deny this? Do you think when Moscow put its enemies into remote areas of Russia/USSR, that it was a term of endearment to those people?


Similar to your instinct to blame Polish people for all the problems in the world to make you feel better about yourself, your personal failures and the failures of your ancestry?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


You may be right. Considering Russia's historical treatment of Jews, why should any self respecting Russian care about anti-semitism in Russian controlled Poland? Especially a powerful Russian in Moscow? Afterall Poland historically was part of the Pale Settlement where Russia expelled most of its Jews to.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pale.html
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_15340.html


Yes and I'm sure the nation which controlled Poland at the time which used Poland as a "dumping place" for its Jews didn't have a single thing to do with it. LOL

You're right. Russia's historical anti-semitism had absolutely NO influence on Russian dominated Poland LOL!

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/pale.html
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_15340.html


Well considering Russia's historical attitude toward Jews, you maybe right. When there were tensions between Poles and Jews in Poland, what side do you think Russia was on? The Jews or the Poles? Or maybe Russia liked seeing both groups fight each other to take attention away from Russian anti-semitism?


Its also funny how that is only a small fraction of the amount of Jews that used to be in Russia before Russia forced them out into the Pale Settlment.

Wouldn't you agree?

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


What countries in the world did not see Poland being occupied by the Soviets from 1950 to 1990?

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


So you're saying the people of Poland could have made political decisions that Moscow didn't like?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


I didn't say all Jews were kicked out of Russia, but I doubt 2.15 million Jews were in Russia in 1970.

But even if that was true, over twice that amount of Jews were already kicked out of the heart of Russia in the Moscow area if not kicked out of Russia altogether. The Russians made sure that if they didn't kick out most of the Jews from Russia during the Pale Settlement, that the remaining Jews would be far away from the heart of Russia/Moscow region. Don't tell me a great historian like you didn't know that? LOL

As for Jews who were in Russia in 1970, many of them left after 1980.


LOL

Big political rallies in Russian controlled Poland didn't arouse interest in Moscow???? REALLY??

History / Would you classify the Poland's Communist years as a "Soviet occupation" ? [221]


You have to be kidding me.

Where do I even begin here? LOL

This answer of yours is proof that you are of Russian ancestry....not to mention an ethno-centric Russian nationalist at heart.

The whole world saw Poland and other central and east European countries controlled by Moscow from 1945-1990 as Soviet occupied. Was the whole world wrong?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


So you're saying the Soviet authorities, who were ever so paranoid and sensitive about major political activities in their territories didn't know a thing about it?


Because Russia already did. Or at least threw out most Jews in prior years.

Why should Russia/USSR try to throw out Jews from Russia in 1968 when Russia already did a good job of throwing most Jews out of Russia during the Pale Settlement many years earlier?

What do you think the Russian leader Catharine the Great was doing to Jews way before 1968???

Duh!!

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


How do you know that joke was going around in 1968?

Also 1968 is when Moscow controlled Poland with an iron fist.

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]


You have heard of negative and hateful stereotypes, have you not?
So you think negative stereotypes of Blacks, Jews, Russians, etc are OK?
You have heard of bigoted jokes and racist jokes, haven't you? Or is that beyond your ken?

What about all those Irish jokes that Douglas Murray of the Telegraph newspaper had on his blog after he asked people in Britain if they knew of any Irishman jokes? Were they funny? Is the stereotype that Irish people have inferior intelligence OK with you?


No I was explaining why there is racism against Mexicans in the US in response to your afformentioned joke comparing Mexicans and Polish people. You brought up this joke in furthering your anti-Polish feelings that Polish people are an inferior part of your British society.

So nowhere is it inferable that the comedian who made that joke recognizes that there is racism and negative feelings toward Mexicans in America??? REALLY??? Are you that thick?

So why did the comedian start off a joke about racism (by using the word "RACIST") that first off contained a reference to Mexicans?? Its a joke about racism and prejudice against groups of people in various countries. Are you too thick to understand that??

If I'm wrong, then you tell me Sherlock. What was the punchline and why were the people laughing?

Here is your comment and joke again:



So tell me, what groups of people have gone to another country in large numbers and started out in the middle class or upper class and did not work their way up from the bottom over the generations??



Don't avoid my question. If they got the joke as you say, what did they get? What was the punchline of that joke comparing Mexicans and Polish people??


No the newspapers had writers who made Irish jokes about the Irish people as in "Irish and Dogs need not apply" and talk of "Irish white monkeys". They also had joke cartoons of Irish people.

They pretty much more or less did it the same way a guy who works for the British newspaper Telegraph, Douglas Murray did when he made some Irish jokes not long ago. The difference here in comparison to old American newspapers that made Irish joke comments about the Irish, is the new blog function of newspapers. This guy made some Irish jokes and then asked his readers if they knew of any good Irish jokes and many of them obliged writing a whole bunch of them on the Telegraph blog.

Did you find those Irish jokes funny?


Lately in the US there have been jokes about Russian stupidity. Do you think those are funny?
Are jokes about stupid Russians funny to you?


So you deny that there were any Irish joke slurs or Irish joke cartoons of Irish in old American newspapers??


Hardcopy newspaper circulations are contracting, but their blog presence on the internet is growing substantially. New news services on the internet have also been expanding. That's what I also meant, but I guess that went over your head.

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]


You're obsessed with stereotypes like some kind of child.


My God what a hypocrite you are. YOU are accusing ME of a racist view on Mexicans when YOU were the one who brought up a joke about racism concerning Mexicans and took delight in it?????? Are you out of your mind? Talk about spurious logic.

Go back to your post # 463 which contains your joke which is specifically about RACISM in a country and then compares racism against Mexicans and Polish people which you take delight in.

YOU then say in your post #466 the joke is centered on the British people seeing Polish people having a low standing in Britiain and NOT because of the large number of Poles coming into Britain which is parallel to the large number of Mexicans coming into the US.

Racism and prejudice against a given group of people is generally based on the prejudiced notion that those people are in the "lower" part of society.

So you as a Brit are proud of the fact that the British have a racist view towards Polish people?

WOW!

Lovely!! LOL

Well at least I get to see your true mentality.


So what did the British get?

According to that joke, it seems to me the British got the fact that in the UK, there unfortunately is racism in the UK against Polish people the way there is racism against Mexican people in America.

But that's not what YOU get out of the joke. Your take away from the joke is that British people have the viewpoint that Poles are at the lower end of British society and that you take great delight in that. No??


So that's a good thing??

So according to you, when the British hear how Americans (not all) talk of Mexicans, which is in a negative way.......the British are not more sophisticated then those unsophisticated Americans who talk negatively about Mexicans? So this is why the British talk negatively about Poles?

You really aren't doing the nation of Britain a service by saying these things about Britain LOL


Yes I see you like dabbling in racism.

What about those famous "Paki jokes" you Brits have?? You Brits seem to like to knock just about everyone LOL

I see you take pleasure in any kind of joke or remark that degrades people.

I've talked to Irish people who came from England and they say the English are into making negative jokes about other people. He said as an Irishman he got a lot of abuse from the English. There are also videos on youtube of English people making joke slurs of various ethnic and racial groups.

You seem to take enjoyment at ethnic slurs about other people, so you probably like those Brits on youtube making ethnic slurs.


I thought you told me before the British didn't make jokes about the flow of Polish people coming into Britain?


Well there are negative jokes about just about every group of people having inferior intelligence. In America its been about the Polish, Italians, Irish, Mexicans and Blacks.

Its generally pushed by the MEDIA of that nation.

I didn't notice jokes about Irish people having inferior intelligence until Irish people told me about the English people mocking them personally and through their media in England.

In the US, for decades in the 1800's and 1900's there were many jokes about Irish having inferior intelligence as in "Irish and dogs need not apply" and "Irish are like white monkeys". Guess who pushed those bigoted jokes? You guessed it. LOL The English in America who controlled the media at the time.

These anti-Irish jokes started to subside when more Irish got into the media and other fair minded Americans in the media started to highlight these anti-Irish jokes as bigotry. Its similar to how more of the diverse/expanding American media today (like newspapers) is highlighting how old Hollywood/TV media 1960's-1970's inferior intelligence jokes about Polish people is bigotry.

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

So according to you, the English people think Poles in England are like the Mexicans in America?

So the English think Mexicans are low class and are not capable of rising above low level jobs?

But speaking about the Irish, why have the English made inferior intelligence jokes about the Irish for many years?

Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]


So there are proportionally about as many Polish people in England as there are Mexicans in America? Is the Polish population that big in the UK?

By the way, I believe this guy Reginald Hunter was referring to Ireland and not the UK. So you are somewhat inaccurate.

But if I'm not mistaken, there is a sizeable Polish population in Ireland. Maybe you in your infinite wisdom can confirm that to me.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Oh OK so you are are going to use SELECTED negative events in Polish history to define Polish people? Great! That's what Bigots do.

So by your logic, people should define Jews by all the bad Jews? Like Stalin's Jews and the millions of people they helped Stalin kill including many Poles??

So how are STALIN'S JEWS looking this time of year for you??

So what about all the positive things that Poland did for Jews?? Like GIVING JEWS A PLACE TO LIVE where Jews had more rights then any other country for 1000 years??? Oh that's right, a guy like you only takes for granted anything positive Poland has done for Jews. I would say a nation giving Jews a place to LIVE when every other country in the world is rejecting a Jews is a pretty big thing. Don't you think? This is why the great rabbi Moses Isserles said "If it were not for Poland, the existence of the tribe of Israel would have been UNBEARABLE". Why don't you acknowledge that? Or is it just too much fun for you to find fault with Poland and bash Poland???

So overall, was Poland a good country for Jews or a bad country for Jews to live in for 1000 years? If your answer is Poland was a bad country for Jews to live in, then Jews must be one of the most retarded people on earth to CHOOSE to live in Poland for 1000 years and not leave Poland. Its not like Poland was forcing Jews to live inside its borders. You do know that? Right????


So why was there an explosion in the population of Jews in Poland and not in Denmark and Sweden over 1000 years?

You do realize that people vote with their feet? Normal people CHOOSE to live in countries that treat them better then in other countries. Normal people if they're treated badly in a country, LEAVE that country.

No doubt Poland was not a perfect country. But if Poland was as bad as you say towards Jews, WHY did Jews continue to CHOOSE to live in Poland for 1000 years, which is far more then any other country???

If Jews felt Poland was treating Jews poorly, WHY didn't these Jews CHOOSE to live in these other countries that you say tolerated Jews better???????????????

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

There were some Catholics who were prejudiced against Jews just like there were Jews who were prejudiced against Catholics.

But overall a Catholic nation like Poland has been tolerant to Jews and gave more rights and opportunities to Jews then anyone else. This is why the great rabbi Moses Isserles said "If it were not for Poland, the existence of the tribe of Israel would have been UNBEARABLE". There is a reason why most of the world's Jews CHOSE to live in Catholic Poland for 1000 years.

If Jews felt Catholic nations like Poland were unfair to Jews, then Jews should have chose another country to live in for a long time. Maybe Jews when they came out of Israel should have chose to live in nearby African/Arab/Muslim countries instead of traveling all the way to Poland?

Love / Any Polish Muslim girls living in Poland? [103]


You're right. I don't think she's Polish either.

If she was really Polish she would already know the answers to her questions.

News / How Polish diaspora see future of Poland? as ethnic Polish state or just Polish in origin? [120]

Don't start changing the subject here.

The whole issue here is simply this:

How did my simple statement here:

Better yet, Germany and Russia stole ALL of Poland between 1795-1917....they did it again in 1939 for two years.... and today Poland has diplomatic relations with both countries.

Become interpreted and answered by you as this:

Well done, you manage to compare the situation when no Polish territory is being occupied and no Poles are being discriminated against to a situation where Poland was occupying what it had agreed to be the territory of another nation and discriminating against the unfortunate people who lived on their own territory; that is stunningly good work.

That's the question here and nothing else.

Lets break this down.

There are two basic components of my simple statement:

1)Poland once being occupied and discriminated by other countries

2)Poland now has diplomatic relations with those countries.

THAT'S IT!!!

But in your twisted mind you interpret that simple statement of mine as this:

Well done, you manage to compare the situation when no Polish territory is being occupied and no Poles are being discriminated against to a situation where Poland was occupying what it had agreed to be the territory of another nation and discriminating against the unfortunate people who lived on their own territory; that is stunningly good work.

You basically have two points in your response to my simple statement.

1) Me comparing a situation when no Polish territory being occupied and no Poles are being discriminated against

2) Me talking about a situation where Poland was occupying what it had agreed to be territory of another nation and discriminating against those unfortunate people who lived on their own territory

Tell me, which of my two points of my simple statement reflected your second point??

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]


Well like you said, these are idiots in America who are saying this. What do you expect from idiots?

Are they saying this based on your appearance? I would guess if you're of Polish ancestry you look white.

Are they saying this thinking you were not born here? Do you have an accent? But even so that should not make you a non-white American. Maybe these are KKK types you are talking to? LOL

I personally have never heard this that you have to be a white American born here to be white. What you say is a new one on me.

If anything, I have heard some of my Italian American friends complain that some white Americans don't see Italian Americans as being white since their origins are from Southern Europe close to Africa. That seemed like a peculiar thing to hear.

As for me, I have never heard anyone say to me that he thinks I am a non-white or foreign born Polish Americans are non-white. In fact, some people I know have even said I have an "All American look". Whatever that means.

I doubt they see me as a white American just because I was born here.

It sounds like, some of these Americans who made those comments to you are just plain dumb.


I agree. I used to work for a German American guy and he said I look like an "All American".... whatever that means.


I agree with this too.

In my experiences with African Americans, once you get to know them personally and tell them about your Polish ancestry and Polish history, I find that they are kind of easier to bond with on an individual basis then a non-African American. I think they instinctively see Poland/Poles as a downtrodden country that they can relate to easier then somebody of ancestry from a European country that is all big and bad and powerful.

It should be pointed out that Polish American groups got the support of the African-American caucus in congress, when they were lobbying to get Poland into NATO over a decade ago.