Food / Where to go for the best steak in Warsaw? [77]

So I tried Downtown again and this time much better - very tasty strip steak (one of the cheaper items on the menu but still 60 zloty). Zielna was fully booked so will try it next time.

Law / IT department (computer programming) - Opening up an Office/Business in Poland [53]

Wroclaw, Poznan, Gdansk and Warsaw would all be OK but why not just outsource ? there are plenty of programming companies in Poland that offer that.

Yes you might pay more but you would have a warranty on the code written, could reduce or increase volumes more easily and someone else would have the hassle of finding and training the programmers. Its a common model in Eastern Europe. Your involvement would be reduced to the odd flight over to make sure they are clear on specificaitons. Obviously you also need to be careful with copyrights etc.

But if you want to set up here then probably best to go to your lawyers and accountants in Germany and ask if they have an associated firm here - many middle size German firms do and then they would have a vested interest in making sure you get looked after.

Food / Where to go for the best steak in Warsaw? [77]

I will also try Adler again but its not really what I'm after as its quite a noisy place and more for beer than for wine. Plus its round shape always made me feel a bit sick !

Food / Where to go for the best steak in Warsaw? [77]

OK will give zielna a whirl and report back.

I had the charolais in Intercontinental - maybe overcooked as I asked for it medium but it seemed a bit tasteless.

Law / Why is US $ getting so high or Polish zloty falling? [60]


Foreigners who paid fair and square for their shares, on the open market.

Its not a positive move for Poland's image among investors as obviously people are now looking at what will be the next part state owned company to get a unilateral tax applied to it.

The govt cannot have it both ways - they wanted to float KGHM in order to generate cash in the 90s, partly in order to modernize its equipment and that entails obligations from their side to play fair.

5% or so would be fine. But 33% ?

Work / Chartered accountant from India joining a company in Poland. Cost of living in Poznan? [29]

wondering, your idea has some merit but is very confused.

A CPA is a qualified person - i.e. someone who has passed a tough set of exams and is able to sign certain documents (.e.g an audit or an opinion for a bank). The Polish equivalent is called KIBR. As I said in an earlier post then a newly qualified person with KIBR would start at about 10k and go up to 14k depending on their language skills. German and French speaking KIBRs have strong earning power and career prospects and would not be too keen on preparing accounts for luxembourgeois hairdressers. I think they would also need a practicing certificate for Luxembourg ?

The reason for high rates is because for much of the 90s the Polish KIBR institute was more or less a closed shop with only a handful of people qualifying - in some years literally in single figures. This was changed when Poland went through EU accession but there are still far too few qualified accountants for the size of the market. The process for putting graduates through is also costly and time consuming so only the Big 4 and 5-6 medium firms bother to do that. Some young people also do foreign qualifications - mostly ACCA and are of a reasonable standard but would also want wages of PLN 10k plus.

Masters degrees in accounting are rare and in any case the teaching of accounting in Polish universities is very weak.

What I referred to as accounts clerks getting PLN 3k are not always graduates and not necessarily with English. They are invoice punchers who know a few extra things - mainly VAT rules, social security rules and a basis knowledge of how to prepare financial statements (assuming nothing complex within those statements). In secondary towns you might have some luck recruiting but huge numbers of the ones that do speak foreign languages are being taken by big outsourcing centres.

Food / Hip flasks in Poland [7]

what town are you in ?

If in Warsaw then there a few hunting shops - one is near the junction of Zurawia and Marszalkowska which has a stuffed badger in the window.

Or for something more expensive you could try Hefra on Mokotowska or there are a couple of Barbour places which might have a mens one.

Work / Chartered accountant from India joining a company in Poland. Cost of living in Poznan? [29]

It means qualified accountants - which is what the original poster asked about. i.e. people able to sign an audit, provide a valuation, represent a client in court etc.

Accounts clerks which is what you are talking about earn about PLN 3.000 in most big Polish towns.

Work / Salary Expectations Question (Krakow, Fund Accounting) [19]

Good effort ! they are really rare over here.

Won't work in accounting however - if someone does the "same" work as you but quicker and with less mistakes the employer is obviously going to pay them more.

I wouldnt listen too much to what is on internet forums on these self certified employee things - if you are concerned about things then ask at interview but they are probably not desperate - the pendulum is swinging back to employers now.

Food / Coffee in Poland: cheap and undrinkable / expensive and good [89]

I dont much like their coffee but I drink in Starbucks more often here than I do in other countries. There are a few advantages over regular coffee places.

- it has a clean toilet and you dont have to ask for the key.
- they are polite and serve you quickly.
- the food is not exciting but its not too fatty or greasy or old.
- there is wifi that is easy to operate and doesnt need any codes.

I think both Starbucks and Coffee Heaven are really expensive now - if its just a coffee for the train or a 10 minute sit down I often now just fo to McD or KFC where coffee is 4 zlots instead of 10.

Language / Word for 'deadline'? [14]

Termin is the accepted polish term in every business I have known. But deadline is also understood by most poles

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]

The figure given by the banks in 70 percent which is much more believable ( these are nbp figures). 40 percent was 10 years ago.

And of the remaining 30 percent they are from the poorest sections of the population and I don't think they are sitting on vast amounts of undisclosed wealth.

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]

A sound strategy is 30 per cent each of cash/bonds, property and shares and leave 10 percent to invest in something high risk. Problem in uk, us, Ireland and now Poland is that people end up with much more than 50 percent tied up in their home. Taking equity out of your home was very rare until the late 80s.

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]

Er you are forgetting interest rates? These will need to be hiked to support the currency and that will far outweigh all the other effects.

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]

I agree that comparisons of pricing with East Germany are probably not that meaningful.

What is meaningful however is that Warsaw prices are now similar to Germany's three richest cities, Duesseldorf, Munich and Frankfurt yet wages are about 40% of the amount.

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]

Banks should not lend based on combined earnings - when I lived in conservative Germany they always lent on the basis of the higher wage earner x 3.

Reasons are obvious, at least 30% of marriages end in divorce and 80% of marriages involve kids at some stage which means one partner taking less hours and increased costs in the household budget. Add in periods of unemployment, early death etc and its not prudent to use combined earnings.

The shadow economy is well documented in Poland and is maybe 29% (World Bank) or 12% (GUS) but probably somewhere between. However these earnings do not have much effect on the housing market - they are concentrated at the bottom end where people are young and floating around (farm work, restaurant work, building work) and at the top end (drug dealers, pimps, bent politicians) where people would probably pay for their McMansions in cash. English teaching

is one of the few middle class professions where a second job paying cash is viable. Even people that used to take cash like doctors and dentists do so far less frequently now.

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]


Er that was me and my name's not Mark !

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]


So your happy with this quote ? provided by REAS

"general correction of the level of prices which in the years 2006-2008 experienced strong upward pressure due to speculative bubble and demand for cheap money".

Real Estate / Banks in Poland selling fewer mortgages in 2011, down 49% [285]


You must have missed the article in Gazeta Wyborcza on Saturday that talked of falls of 40-50% in land prices around major cities. Its not apartments obviously but it is going to give people much more reason to buy and build even if it means a few years of grief with the builders.

And from personal experience I'm looking at a commercial property now - just had a professional valuation done that is more than 30% less than the original asking price and 10% less than what I was going to offer. Even I was shocked by the negative sentiment in it !

Work / Info on Wages in Poland (start salary for an accountant position?) [7]

Dont know what you have been offered, but if you are not qualified then I would cut my previous figures in half - you could get a polish qualified english speaking person for that money.

Work / Info on Wages in Poland (start salary for an accountant position?) [7]

How big is the fund ?

How much post qualified experience do you have ?

I would have thought PLN 12-14k per month if in Warsaw but if its a very big fund you could get more.

Don't overplay your hand - there are lots of good Polish accountants on the market in Warsaw waiting to leave firms.

Real Estate / Demand for apartments low in Poland's main cities [89]


OK, you're on. The city I pick is Wroclaw and can we now agree price bands ? How about

250k or below
250k to 500k
500k to 750k
750k to 1m

and size bands

under 40 sqm
40-70sqm
70-100sqm

I dont know where you are going to get your banded info from. Please suggest a source. The avg per sqm in Wroclaw in September 2011 was PLN 6367 per tableaofert.pl quoed in GW on 21st October.

By a year we refer to 12 months, i.e. September 2012. And you are offering me 10-1, i.e. CMS wins 1000 PLN from your 100 if I am right.

To be settled over a pint in Jimmy Bradleys in October 2012 with the loser also buying the ale.

I'll post again on my bet in a few mins when I have read the paper.

If you go back to post 49 I never offered 10-1. I was asking you if you would offer 10-1! This bet is at evens for PLN 100 or I will give you 2-1 if the number of cities showing 20% falls is 5 rather than 7. In total with the other bet that puts 300 zlots of my hard earned on the table and 200 of yours.

to answer your questions

a) yes city limits
b) yes, but actually I would bet the same if we talked about houses, retail rents, warehouse rents, office rents, famland.
c) sale prices
d) yes PLN prices only
e) dunno, tableaofera.pl and the prices they had on Friday were

Katowice 5113
Krakow 6740
Lodz 5042
Poznan 6094
Gdansk 6094 (just coincidence that same as Poznan presumably)
Warsaw 7831
Wroclaw 6367

If you have a more reliable source then please suggest.

Again to be settled in a boozer next October ! Not sure if polishforums has any rules about internet gambling but we can take further discussions to PM.

good luck !

Real Estate / Demand for apartments low in Poland's main cities [89]

I dont mean your vested interests, I mean the builders vested interest ! :)

Real Estate / Demand for apartments low in Poland's main cities [89]


warsaw, krakow, gdansk, lodz, katowice, poznan, wroclaw

I'm not planning to adjust it. Thats the bet I'm offering. If there was demand for higher price units then they would be the ones being built.


so no vested interests then ?

Real Estate / Demand for apartments low in Poland's main cities [89]

He has already said that he does not gamble and yet you continue to behave like a kid in a playground. But the terms you have set on your bet are ridiculuous - if there are 5 price bands or 5 size bands and 4 of them fall by 50% but one by only 19% then you win. And in any case data would not be available.

So how about a more reasonable bet - that in 6 of the 7 towns on the front of todays property section of GW the average selling price falls by 20% by October 2012 ? Still happy to offer those 10-1 odds ? money where your mouth is and all that.

Real Estate / Demand for apartments low in Poland's main cities [89]


According to today's Gazeta Wyborcza.

Asking price in Wroclaw in September was 6746, actual selling price was 6367. So its already 10% lower than what you believed. That's of course what Pip would refer to as a levelling out.

UK, Ireland / Getting the most from my hard earned money (transfer money from England to Poland) [41]


Its far from trivial - its a time consuming process than often needs a court order, or permission from the banking authorities and is rarely attempted unless they is evidence of a sizeable crime and a more than evens chance that the investigation will be vindicated.

Its actually about the 5th or 6th bum piece of info on this thread - and remember you guys are quick enough to rip into other English teachers for their grammar mistakes !

Law / Not earning yet but spending from previously earned money and other Poland tax issues [22]

You would be much better served paying an accountant to look at this for you rather than rely on the advice of amateurs on here - all the big and middle sized firms are in Warsaw, speak English and for EUR 500 you would get 2-3 hours of someone good and a memo.

Delphian is right that such a memo is not a get out of jail free card - but in reality unless you are dealing with millions then the tax authorities won't often take you on if you have one as they don't fancy court cases where the bigger firms are defending tax payers.

And dont get too paranoid about posting your name here - I've been dealing with polish tax offices for 13 years and never met anyone who could speak more than a few sentances of English. Most of them just want a quiet life and even those that are keen generally recognize that expats bring investment and jobs to Poland so will give you some latitude and some time to fill in formalities so long as you are not actually being dishonest.

Life / Expats/Immigrants in Poland: Needy, Greedy or contributor. Which one are you? [118]


You can always go to North Korea if you wish to see a country without capitalism.