UK, Ireland / Should UK Poles be forced to attend English language courses? [10]

Of course Poles should learn the native language wherever they settle around the world.

But quality and standardization matters. For instance, Poles would be wasting their time and job prospects if they learned, ahem, "English" anywhere north of the Watford Gap. Indeed, there was a time in the early years of the BBC where they would send their Foreign Correspondents to cover stories "Oop North" (i.e., the North of England and Scotland).

Travel / Photo tales from Krakow, Poland [10]


Shame it is vandalized with graffiti.

Law / RE: Apostillization/Legalization of Documents by Polish national to be used in India [14]


Why are you questioning why a foreigner wants to come to Poland when you yourself are also a foreigner in Poland?

The only question you should be asking is what time his flight arrives so you can pick him up at the airport and help him with his luggage. Full stop!

UK, Ireland / Polish Families Moving to Scotland or back to Poland [23]


That sounds more like a cover story someone on the run would give.

Scotland will be poorer than it is now. England has been willing to pay Scotland to stay in the Union. Also, given the large number of Scots or those of Scottish descent who have and are MPs it comes as no surprise that England has been effectively been paying a ransom. The English support an independent Scotland too just to end the blackmail.

And as I already stated Scotland may think it is rich in resources but that doesn't mean it will have rights and access to them.

It's long been argued that the historically strong pound has been heaven for The City but hell for British business. Scotland will go through a very painful economic transition and it won't be short lived either. Westminster will have simply no reason to have any regard if Scotland's economy suffers in order to keep their own currency at par. Even if they continue to use the British pound they will still suffer especially in any remaining export and tourism sectors. Ireland as always been a country reliant on other nations for financial assistance. Even then it has always been a poorer region in Europe. They were very quick to switch to the euro though weren't then? And recent years has shown that far from being a "Celtic Tiger" their economy was in reality only a mangey cat.

Major trading partner with whom with a pegged currency and an economy in transition? Don't think every country will simply keep the current trading treaties going. It will be a golden opportunity for other countries to demand new treaties which are more in their own favor. And if the English didn't play games at the European level they would never have demanded and used their opt-out clause. The whole of the UK would be far more integrated already at every level and aspect of life. If you haven't noticed London doesn't genuflect to Brussels. London has diplomats there to protect its own interests from being taken over.

Furthermore, any place could read and apply EU law in their own country if they wanted to. Lots of nations copy laws from other countries and even get places like the EU and America to help them to do it. That doesn't make them eligible to be member states. Even the accession countries had to apply the laws to show they were capable of doing it long before they were allowed membership and for many it was done reluctantly because of other concerns such as lingering economic problems and fears of mass migration transfers.


You're assuming those agitating for independence would be satisfied with not being a republic. Unlikely. If Scotland splits the property may split but it would be foolish to assume it would be done evenly or amicably. You even had to admit that "the Scottish Parliament was recently handed some rights..." You can be certain it was nothing that England couldn't do without.


There was no mention of mineral rights because they don't want to have to start any negotiations over it. As far as international law goes no current ally of the UK is going to back the Balkanization of Britain. The EU knowns that if Scotland declares independence it will be an incentive for other regions such as Catalonia and Silesia to do the same. This is too costly not just financially but flies in the face of the notion of deeper EU integration with the existing member states.


The Nordic countries have had centuries to build up their wealth and establish trade and treaties in order to get where they are today. No one in Europe will want to see Scotland become a South Sudan or Somalia on their doorstep but they won't become another Norway or Sweden either. After many generations an independent Scotland will most likely be as relevant as Greenland or the Faroe Islands and at best be another Iceland.

As I already mentioned Poles will do better elsewhere.

UK, Ireland / Polish Families Moving to Scotland or back to Poland [23]


You left for Poland under unexplained circumstances. I imagine millions more would leave too once Scotland goes through its own exit and the long process of having to start its own currency and sort out its economy in the world. As you should know all accession countries need to meet specified conditions. You can rely on Westminster cutting the umbilical cord and making a real move for independence extremely difficult and certainly to the disadvantage of Scotland.

Did you know that the Crown currently owns all mineral rights (which includes oil and gas) under British soil?

See for yourself: bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/planning/legislation/mineralOwnership.html

Ownership of oil and gas within the land area of Great Britain was vested in the Crown by the Petroleum (Production) Act 1934. The Continental Shelf Act 1964 applied the provisions of the 1934 Act to the UKCS outside territorial waters.

I don't see Scotland becoming an independent petro-state without a serious fight for it; either in a court room or even by military force.

If any Poles want the prospects of a lower standard of living and uncertain future they could certainly go to Scotland. But they would do better going to some place comparable like Albania or Cyprus instead where at least the weather is much nicer.

UK, Ireland / Polish Families Moving to Scotland or back to Poland [23]


Sure. That is of course if you want to keep Scotland a depopulated wilderness.

Otherwise you would have to convince (and that's unlikely) the millions of Scots living in England, Canada, America, Australia, Poland, etc., etc., etc. to return home so Scotland can be considered a country and not just a big wildlife preserve. Fish, fowl and fauna don't vote or pay taxes you know. So Scotland will need Poles and millions of more immigrants to make a declaration of independence worthwhile.

UK, Ireland / Polish Families Moving to Scotland or back to Poland [23]


Will you be telling the Poles moving to Scotland that they may actually be leaving the EU if they do?

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9303587/European-Commission-Separate-Scotland-forced-to-reapply-for-EU-membership.html

European Commission: Separate Scotland forced to reapply for EU membership

SNP ministers have been left reeling after European leaders gave their strongest indication yet a separate Scotland would be forced to reapply for membership of the EU.

This would mean a separate Scotland having to sign up to the euro and the Schengen Agreement, which permits free movement without passport checks, unless it can secure its own version of the UK's opt-outs.

Genealogy / The Polish Coats of Arms & Nobility system [5]

Heraldry is still regarded as a very serious business in some quarters. The only legitimate institution I ever heard of that is still active in this field is Britain's College of Arms

college-of-arms.gov.uk

Notably they were involved in the design for the granting of arms to Prince William as well as his wife the Duchess of Cambridge. In the UK the convention is that each eligible person is granted their own individual one which may draw on elements used by ancestors but they are never identical.

My understanding is that only szlachta in Poland were given the right to have arms and that Polish nobles followed a different system whereby certain families shared the same coat arms; more like a clan system.

But how seriously can you take the website you gave regarding heraldry - which is supposed to be a sign of achievement and respectability - when they are pushing you to buy stock images with your surname emblazoned on key chains, baseball caps, coffee mugs and beer mats?

Although heraldry can be an interesting topic to read you should bear in mind that since Poland and America are republics no one living in either of them has a legitimate claim to a coat of arms even if they happen to share the same surname with someone who did centuries ago.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


Like Wulkan suspected your response is BS and not even remotely clever sounding. Asking what I am going to do instead is a diversion to draw attention away from yourself so you don't have to admit that you are wrong.

The world is a safer place without you practicing licensed medicine on anyone.

Indeed, your absolutist refusal to acknowledge the racial diversity that is staring you in the face each day is akin to those fanatics who deny their children medical attention based on religious convictions; not because they are right (they're not) but because they are out of touch with reality.

Humans are visual creatures. We compare, contrast and label everything around us including ourselves and each other and that covers race and racial differences too. That's why there are terms regarding race in every single language out there. There are common words for it, slang words for it and offensive words for it. People know what they are looking at even when people like you go around saying there is no such thing as race.

What's next for you? No such thing elephants, whales, squirrels, cats, dogs, apes or humans because we are all just mammals? No such thing as male or female because we could have turned out as either so that makes us all inherently neuter?

You would make fantastic writing material for George Orwell if he were still alive today.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]

Yes. As you know not all immigrants, even refugees, turn out to be maladjusted when they settle in Europe and North America. But the example I gave of the "latin gangs" in America have had a significant impact and noteriety even though their numbers are not very large when compared to the rest of the populations they live in. Still, there is a history as to why some of them turned to violent crime. War was one. Another was defending themselves and retaliating against armed black gangs (another disenfranchised minority group) in street turf battles. It is a complex picture of being both victims and victimizers. Unfortunately their entire community often gets stereotyped because of the bad actions of a few.

The Guardian did a video report recently regarding a Somali refugee who got the right to remain in Sweden. Here is the report:
guardian.co.uk/global-development/video/2012/aug/16/somali-refugee-sweden-video

I thought it was trying to present a very best case scenario. It is the story of a young man who wants to flee war in Africa. So he is allowed to settle in Sweden and then dreams of bringing his family there too. He is given a medical evaluation where he says he still has bullets in him and has nervous system problems. But the Swedish official interviewing him doesn't comment but instead explains to the refugee that he will need to sign a form to start receiving financial benefits. He is then seen being given a decent flat and appliances including a large telly. Adjusting to a new country and culture can be enough of a shock to many new immigrants. But if this refugee is also suffering from any post traumatic stress disorders I don't believe receiving financial and material benefits from the state will be enough to fix his life. Sweden has socialized medicine but I don't know to what extent and for how long they will provide any need for psychological care.

I've read elsewhere where North Korean defectors have a very difficult time adjusting to life in South Korea so much so that they ROK government now integrates them slowly with extensive counseling rather than just allowing them to immediately live on their own.

It's good that such persons are given a second chance in life. But I can't imagine they are never haunted by homesickness, regret and shame that they had to abandon their own families, culture and country as a result. It is quite likely that some even experience resentment towards their new host countries when they see how much they had to sacrifice while their new fellow citizens have lived for decades in a very high standard of living without war or instability. Sure they can read the history about war in Europe but it is of little solace when they may have just escaped from a prison camp or a battle field that rolled through their village while people in America and Europe may only have seen a snippet of it on the news if they even bothered to watch at all.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


That's nice for you to think that way. Thankfully science and medicine don't. Here is another example which highlights the medical challenges some mixed race children can encounter:

For mixed-race patients, few bone marrow donors

"The complex genetic makeup associated with mixed-race patients can make it difficult to find a bone marrow match because it's necessary to find a donor with a similar race or ethnic background."

I take it you won't be contacting the couple featured in the video report to tell them they have been lied to and that their interracial child could have been saved by getting a bone marrow transplant from anybody in the "one and only human race".

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]

A person's race determines their looks. Whites and Asians do not grow the hair on their head the same way those of African descent do and vice versa. Blacks have darker skin because they evolved in regions of the world with more intense levels of sunlight where as whites evolved due to lower levels of sunlight. If DNA can determine eye and hair color there is no reason it couldn't determine the level of pigmentation a person has or the texture or straightness of the hair they grow. If DNA can determine important matters like disease one is likely to have or even more trivial things like level of ear wax production then they most certainly can determine race.

Race also shapes culture. For example, jazz and hip-hop music in America didn't originate with Norwegian settlers in the Midwest or Chinese migrants working on the railroads. These forms of music came from blacks but they were often promoted by whites who largely controlled the media.

Blacks in America and Britain would find it very offensive if someone like you came along and said there is no such thing as race. They have lived both the good and bad about being racial different. Racial differences can be a positive thing. It is only when one group uses it to the detriment of another group that it becomes a problem.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


Of course. Multi-racial societies take these into account too during censuses so they can direct policies and funding to aid those that are in a minority status that are in need of assistance.

And science can even determine it at the DNA level - A New DNA Test Can ID a Suspect's Race, But Police Won't Touch It.

To deny racial differences is to deny diversity and Mother Nature strives for diversity even among like species. There's also a song by the electric music due Groove Armada with the lyrics "If everyone looked the same we'd get tired of looking at each other."

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


Thanks. Unfortunately it is true and it is relevant to the topic of this thread. The violence seen in American schools is from a variety of causes. Most people will think it comes from bullying or disgruntled youth with mental and emotional problems. Indeed it does. But another long standing problem has been inner city and subsequent suburban gang rivalries largely among immigrant communities such as MS13 gangs which have their origins in the Central American guerrilla wars going back to the 1980's. Back then they were armed and trained by America. After the wars they went to America where their lack of progress in integrating into society led to street crimes and violence which spread on both coasts. Eventually the Central American countries began to suffer again in the late 1990's and early 21st century when these gang members and their descendants began returning home either because they had been deported, left on their own because life in America became too difficult, or simply to be more involved in the lucrative drug trafficking. These are the sad experiences of such immigrants but it also shows a failure of immigration authorities to recognize those who very likely had post war traumatic disorders or other anti-social dispositions. These immigrants were just let in with few if any checks and sadly the violence that took root afterwards is the stigma that blights large segments of their community even today. Although increased immigration may be done with the best of intentions what needs to be kept in mind is that if Poland does take in more stateless persons or those from deprived and war torn countries around the world it needs to do a lot to evaluate them properly because their take on life and any regard for it is likely to be very different from those already living in Poland and the rest of Europe.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


Yes, it is so unlike America where many students there have to go literally through a metal detector and be subject to a police pat down and bag search for weapons. And that's a routine school day in America. So laugh all you want marcelo but you lot are the ones who have something to be really ashamed about.

UK, Ireland / Poles becoming British subjects [39]

This is not surprising especially for those who have found stable work and started a family there.

Britain is also more attractive since they have a higher exchange rate in their favor and knowing some or a lot of English is also a pull factor; not just for Poles but many people from around the world.

The UK has long had its own disparity with the South being the most densely populated and economically prosperous. Even Northerners, Scots and Welsh have long been abandoning their own regions for London and the Home Counties.

Genealogy / Poles born under Russian control - are we Russian? [29]


No, I don't believe so. The Russians have used two words to distinguish between themselves who are ethnic Russian (русский) and those who are Russian nationals but of a different ethnicity (российский).

News / Who controls Gazeta Wyborcza?? [216]


Source: mossad.gov.il/Eng/AboutUs.aspx

Life / Polish vs British vs American - Clash of cultures [390]

The more realistic layout plans for Warsaw Metro's expansion.

Law / Need advice on name change (from English to Polish) [11]


Changing your first name to the Polish variation is commendable. You shouldn't be forced or shamed into carrying someone else's heritage around. If you are saddled with any other non-Polish names then by all means change those as well. And you don't have move to Poland first either in order to earn some unwritten right to change your name back to something Polish. Look at all the many different names and often absurd spellings used by other people for themselves and their children all around the world especially in places like America, Canada, Australia and Britain. You want something traditional which honors your Polish heritage. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just check to see what if any legal paperwork needs to be processed in the region where you live. Do it right away if you haven't started already.

Others here on PF are forever screaming about the need for "multiculturalism" so by all means go ahead and nail your Polish colors to the mast!

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]



You have exposed your own doubts. Your responses are too qualified to be taken seriously and don't deserve a reply.


So according to you these two heroes are just ordinary folk doing the best they can but when you reasonably ask for measurable results of what they've done other than have an immigrant background the shrill cry goes up that no one in Europe measures performance in politics! No wonder the majority of voters are so disaffected and don't care about who is standing in an election. They know it makes little to no difference in their daily lives who gets in and the politicians and their stooge supporters know it as well and so are very content to maintain the status quo. And this explains why millions of Poles have gone abroad.


Oh, so you are willing to defend these two greasy pole climbers with very vague and guarded wording but when pressed for real proof you expect me to go around taking my own street surveys. You're just dodging the issue because you have no answers (or more likely don't want to admit to the reality of the answers) to the very questions you had the temerity to ask me.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


So he holds a regular surgery with constituents in an aging and declining population. Big deal. He is nothing more than a simple caretaker for people who now have little wants or needs in life. An apathetic electorate to be sure.


You mean he is not compensated at all? Not even one złoty goes from the taxpayer to his bank account? Sorry for you but he is not a volunteer by any stretch of the imagination. It sounds like he is earning a very easy paycheck indeed. As far as being ordinary the electorate deserve far more than that from their politicians or is this ordinary immigrant filling one of those jobs that ordinary Poles refuse to do?


Ronald McDonald is popular in £ódź too. And at least McDonald's provides jobs that can be counted.


When people are in positions of power and influence then it absolutely does matter that they are able to "give back" even more to the people who put them where they are today; especially when they are getting paid. Any reasonable person would agree that success in helping others should be identifiable and measurable. Genuine politicians and economists spend their days identifying needs in society and taking measurements and then acting on them. No reason the same yardstick shouldn't be used to measure the performance of these two characters as well. But they haven't made any real difference and you know it. Polish society can run its course with or without them. If they weren't there (and eventually they will have to vacate their positions) someone else would be doing their jobs. That's the facts of life.


After decades of both of these characters taking prominent positions in Polish society you are the one who should be able to provide the answers rather than pose the questions rhetorically. Surely after all this time at least one average Pole would testify to others that they found the inspiration to get a job or start a business thanks solely to the supposed good deeds of either Godson or Munyama.


So another way of looking at it is that immigration doesn't make a difference in the long run. All you really need is enough mundane locals and they will get any job done just as well.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


So in other words nothing specific or quantifiable. Nothing extraordinary. Has the population of £ódź increased or decreased since Godson entered the political scene and by how much?


So nothing specific or quantifiable either other than a quick profile of his personal life. And comparing him to the downtrodden margins of Polish society is a bit unfair and extreme don't you think? Surely after 30 years he must have benefitted others in Polish society somehow.

How many jobs or new businesses have either of these two men been directly responsible for creating?

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


These are two examples of the ambitiousness of immigrants. But what acts of legislation have either of them authored that significantly improved the quality of life for all Poles?

Life / Do Polish people like Turkish people? [66]


Absolutely.

Your own media acknowledges Turkey has a problem with racism...

...among Turkish institutional leaders:

Turkish racism: an unpleasant story

"When Gen. İlker Basbuğ, the highest ranking officer in Turkey, defined some citizens as "people who don't really have Turkish blood in their veins," he was revealing just the tip of an ugly iceberg."

...as well as in sport:

Can Turkey kick football racism out of the stadiums?

"While European football is trying to prevent racism, Turkey mostly tends to wash its hands of it"

...coming from the Turkish players themselves:

Emre racism scandal sees Turkey forced to air dirty laundry again.

"'Turkish football player drops 'N-bomb' on the field.'"

But I'm willing to contend that the news media can be biased, so here is a personal account of a black female tourist visiting Istanbul:

[youtube.com/watch?v=lrCPeOINDvk] - My experience with racism in Turkey

I can add more - a lot more - from Greeks, Armenians, Cypriots, Kurds all of whom have experienced state sponsored Turkish violence as recently as the 20th and 21st centuries.

So, you were saying about Poles being racist?

Anyway, you are free to visit Poland but please leave your country's problems with racism back in Turkey. Thanks.

Life / Do Polish people like Turkish people? [66]

Such questions have been asked ad nauseam here on PF.

Poles are no more racist than Turks; probably a lot less so. Euro 2012 was an excellent example of Poland showing it is a great host to the world's visitors. The success of the games really silenced all of her hateful and spiteful critics.

But let's get to the heart of the matter. Why would you want to move to 21st century Poland in the first place if you thought the Poles living there were so racist to begin with? Do you really think Poland would be a member of the EU if racism was rife and minorities were living in daily terror?

You should just move to Poland and find out for yourself and then come back on here and gives us your story. That would be a lot more interesting.

Language / Occupational first name in Polish? [7]

The equivalent of Cooper in Polish is Bednarz which in Poland is a surname only.

Cooper/Bednarz is an occupational name for someone who makes wooden slatted barrels, buckets, etc.; obviously not common anymore.

Was your cousin named after the Mini?

By the way, it looks like you asked this question last June: Occupational first name

Why weren't you satisfied with the responses back then?

News / Poland's Truth Commission "IPN" to be de facto closed [80]

Don't you just love the Abrahamic faiths? There is always a hair just waiting to be split. Each of them always take great satisfaction in the delusion that their way of following the same invisible sky wizard is better than anyone else's.

Give me secularism any day.

USA, Canada / Animosity against second and third generation poles ? [26]


The OP said nothing about "Polish Jews". He is talking about ANY second or third generation person with Polish roots. Why hijack the thread with such a stale topic?

Life / Ideas for constructive Immigration methods for Poland. [30]

Congratulations Lodz_The_Boat! You won today's prize for the most incoherent, rambling post on PF! It's a given you are very proud of yourself.

For others who are reading, my consistent position in response to this thread is that if Poland has educational problems or labor skill shortages then politicians, teachers, businesses and community leaders need to see what can be done internally to fix this to help and benefit Polish citizens. This is common sense. This is how many other societies work together to make their own countries successful. If persons like Lodz_The_Boat are against seeing Poland develop home grown talent then this is a result of short-term thinking and outright disdain for real Poles. It's not logical; it's snobbery.

If there is an immediate demand for a specialized ability that cannot be achieved within Poland in a timely manner then Poland as part of the EU already has a vast pool of talent to draw upon. Other EU states have millions of citizens who are already assimilated and legal in terms of settlement and right to work. There are EU citizens who have gone to some of the best schools within the EU and even elsewhere. EU citizens also have a good range of experiences. The EU has huge numbers of people from different background and ethnicities. Not just those unique to each country but their own large immigrant communities. You need Turks, Gemany has them. You need Asians, Britain has them. You need Arab/North Africans, France has them. And on and on. It's up to Poland to attract them.

And it allows the market place for labor to work legally.

But Lodz_The_Boat cannot grasp this and doesn't want to. Instead he screams and lies that somehow I am a racist. This is because he has repeated a preference (more like a fetish) to see Poland bring in young foreign born students only; preferably from outside the EU. This position of his doesn't make me or anyone else a racist but it does expose Lodz_The_Boat as quite creepy especially when you take into consideration that he claims to be a married man with children.

Lodz_The_Boat is entitled to believe (foolishly) that only right-wing extremists reach for bullets and bombs. But I encourage him to read the news sometime. People are fond here on PF of singling out Poles engaging in bad behavior as if to suggest that is how all Poles behave. So conversely let's take a look at Lodz_The_Boat's citing America as a model to follow for liberal immigration policies. Let's also include his desire for young immigrant students. Ever hear about Seung-Hui Cho? Ever hear about the Virginia Tech massacre? Yes, just a few years ago 33 students were killed and 23 injured by Seung-Hui Cho a young immigrant student in America who held a grudge. What was his politics? Unknown. He didn't come off as right or left wing. But he did suffer from mental illness. The other mass murderer Anders Brevik did hold extremist political views but he was also found to be criminally insane.

So I refute your pathetic attempt to tie extremism and violence to others when they don't agree with your own biased views on immigration.

But I actually do hope you get your wish of seeing Poland bring in more young foreigners. You even said previously "Educated Poles in their majority wish the country would be a little more diverse :) ... but more important, benefit from the Global pool of intellectual capacity." Fantastic! I also hope you feel the effects personally. Not just by seeing them take up jobs that other Poles can be doing. I hope you get to compete directly with them and they end up putting you out of business. I also hope your family and friends lose their jobs in preference to these foreign immigrants. And why not? There are 7 billion people in the world at the moment. There are millions if not billions of foreigners who can outwit you, your family and friends. They can do things 10x better and at a fraction of the price. You and those you know are already obsolete. It's only logical that you get displaced. You need to give up your place for them. The sooner the better.