News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Yes, there is no excuse for being a nazi. Certainly be as right wing or libertarian as you like but don't discriminate.

Gumishu, the only way to remove a Ukranian president is to have a 2/3 majority of all MPs in a free vote. That vote was not free and the 2/3 majority was not met. The facts are real it doesn't matter how much of a crook he is, he was democratically elected and removed in a coup. His party were the largest indicating that the people threw out the previous corrupt lot, the ones in the Orange revolution who did nothing except make themselves richer but they had to wait for an election. The street protests came only after he rejected the unfair terms offered by Europe, you cannot have financial policy dictated on the street.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


The first thing they did was remove the right to have any minority language as an official language in the same session as the vote to remove Yanukovych. The guy who brought the motion forward also called for Russian ethnic people to be deported he is a right wing nut job one of the "Jews are responsible" crowd. These events were widely reported but you must have missed them.

4 eigner there is no point posting the internet here, I'm well aware of the events described it still doesn't give them a mandate.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


No one is threatening the Ukranian speakers in the Crimea, the fascists in Kiev removed the language rights of the majority there and some called for deportation of Russian speakers.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Winning an election doesn't give you a blank card to do whatever you want. Any government must bring as many people with it as possible including people who didn't vote for it. Of course if an election or referendum is fought on a particular issue the majority view must prevail.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

I'm a democrat, if the right wing nut jobs had stood for election and won then there would still be a problem however they could argue legitimacy. But they didn't stand for election they have no mandate.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


That's not what happened, a western backed fascist coup in Kiev installed an illegal, mish mash of thugs in positions of influence. The defence ministry is now under the control of a neo nazi who believes that all Ukraine's problems come from Jewish/Russian bankers. Russia simply moved to defend its ethnic minority. There is no country on earth that wouldn't have behaved in a similar way.

The territorial integrity of the country is for all the people of the country to decide no matter what their language or their ethnicity is the, last time they were asked they chose a government not favourable to NATO.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


The US is not obliged to protect Ukraine in any way. Interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs was hardly keeping your word.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Because people are jumping up and down screaming that Russia is interfering in Ukraine, nothing has happened threatening its borders.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

Its Palestinian land

There is nothing in any reassurances or guarantees that support a coup; recognising an illegal government that includes fascist anti semites is no guarantee of Ukrainian neutrality.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Yes religion has been used to destroy things but just discounting it is irrational.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


That's right, I have no belief at all but I despise those who seem to have picked opposition to a God as some sort of life statement.

My problem here apart from hanging my head at those relying on a wiki, is that there is no real attempt to explain what is supposed to be glaringly obvious. There is almost no link between Christianity and Judaism this phrase was never used until recently and the phrase changes meaning depending upon who is using it.

I'm afraid that it's not good enough to state that it describes the foundations of Christianity because that event marked a break with Judaism in such a fundamental way that the sects have totally different theologies. There was no meeting of minds at any point in the history of Christianity. "It" being obvious and clear is also at odds with those who use the same phrase to mean a European tradition of rule of law,democracy and tolerance (which is false). It may be uncomfortable to ask for meaning but is Zimmy's meaning the same as Sz's?

Which is the correct meaning or can this phrase ever mean anything more than a wiki soundbite?

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


It means to accelerate the acquisition of other peoples lands.

Biblical Protestant ideas came as a real surprise to me as well the literal truth of scripture is all because they consider the Bible to be the direct word of god, now if God was talking to an other faith that presents a problem. The literal truth cannot be interpreted that's what Catholics do so a link to Judaism must be made. At the extreme end of the spectrum you have all sorts of sects claiming to be the lost tribe of Israel.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Yes prejudice could be a reason but it doesn't explain why the phrase was only used recently when prejudice was still very much present.

The Judeo/Christian phrase started to be used when European colonialism was cranking into gear. In the case of the Catholic colonial powers there was no theological or societal problem they just did it, they were saving souls. Protestant powers by their nature needed a justification for colonialism, they were not Catholic and therefore not despotic (freakily enough they though of themselves as democratic)They were on a mission from God to liberate the soul and mind unlike the Catholics who just wanted conversions.

Biblical Protestantism also needed a link to Jewish scripture otherwise there would be a detachment from God. Put these things together and you have a reason to invent this Judeo/Christian idea, It kind of kills two birds with one stone.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

If we are talking about Christianity why the Judeo part, why was it added when for the overwhelming majority of history it was never mentioned. There was no talk of Judeo/Christian traditions during the Crusades, nor during the great Christian Schism or indeed during the later religious wars.

This nonsense came about with the rise of Colonialism.

Maybe
Neocatastrophism is an interesting and valid concept in earth sciences however It doesn't seem to hold much water in historical investigation of social evolution.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

What do you mean by Judeo Christian, no one wants to define this much used phrase.

Do you mean Christian but throw Jews in to make a biblical connection to God? That what a lot of the exotic reformed thinkers do because they need to plug the huge gap that literal biblical truth creates for Christians.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


Yeah, but you have not said what it is.

This phrase is just some words without any meaning if you disagree briefly explain what it means an accurate definition cannot be too difficult if it's as you said so clearly obvious.

If you mean European I understand all too clearly what you write. European gives context to the nebulous idea of Judeo/Christian, if you don't mean European what do you mean?

You may find Paulina tiresome but she goes straight to the core of what you are saying and you fail to answer her valid questions. Bringing up other discussions where you misunderstood (again) the key points is no substitute for discussion.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


What is indigenous European?
Islam was in Iberia longer than Christianity, today there are still European Muslims in the Balkans and other places.

This modern ill defined phrase is like "stuff" it can mean anything, calling it a tradition is not kosher.

Paulina a lot of people use that phrase without understanding usually without malice, but you can be sure when pressed most will struggle to accurately define it. Those who use it with deliberate intent tend to use it as code for White European.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


This is what Des said......


Harry He is noting that the historical character (if he existed) was a Jew at some point in his life.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

You keep saying that it's obvious and it's clear what this tradition is but refuse to elaborate other than to say that Christianity comes from The Jewish faith. That is not describing a tradition that is a statement of fact.

You have not explained what you mean by a Judeo/Christian tradition. I have let you know what I have studied and been taught, it can't be too difficult to give a little history of how you believe this phrase to have evolved, to describe what it means.

You reject Zimmy's correct usage but refuse to explain what you mean and You can't do that because you don't understand the words you type.

It's no good to say it's clearly obvious, I'm asking you to explain, we know the three religions are related, we know that Christianity is not a European idea, nor are the other two. Democracy is pre Christian, tolerance is not religion specific nor Education so what is this tradition?

Which of the "many Western states" as you said have a Judeo/Christian foundation? What marks them apart from those states that don't have this mysterious foundation?

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

So you think that Zimmy was talking about the scriptural relation between the Jewish and Christian sects when he quoted

"those enclaves have grown to where the Sharia law now challenges the Judeo-Christian foundations of their host European nations."

And you think that Zimmy wasn't talking about a hierarchy of cultures despite saying

"I don't believe that all cultures are equal in (their) values."?

No, you seem to think that people using the phrase "Judeo-Christian" are talking about theological matters in a cerebral context and not in the context in which the phrase was coined, that is to provide a scriptural basis for racism and colonialism. Because you don't understand what is being said doesn't mean that everyone else also misunderstands.

I'll ask again, What are the exact circumstances/events that this phrase exists to describe? If it is just describing a theological event as you claim, why is it relevant to this discussion and why is it described as a tradition?

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

No you have not explained anything, you have simply pointed out the obvious......these religions are related, a small child could do that. This "tradition" is in fact a deeply racist piece of propaganda, morons repeat it because they think these small familiar words make them sound knowledgeable and modern.

What is commonly meant by those who use the phrase with understanding is that there is a democratic tradition of tolerance and understanding that is a god given blessing to Europeans and as a result it's their destiny to guide the unclean towards enlightenment including Jews. There is no tradition of any Christian sect and any other religion working together to produce some kind of European tradition.

Of course the internal contradictions of such a message of supposed tolerance are ignored as are the clear ahistorical roots of such a wild idea.

That is what is meant by a Judeo/Christian tradition.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


It's so obvious yet you cannot explain what a Judeo/Christian tradition is, perhaps it would be better If you didn't use phrases that you don't understand.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Sz, again if it's so obvious perhaps you would care to explain exactly what it is. Using a phrase that you don't understand is a bit silly. The political phrase is clearly based in the supposed reality of ethnic supremacists however apart from some scriptural links there is no grounding in everyday reality for this as yet to be defined idea.

So again I ask you to define this tradition and explain how it came about, you said it was clear you said it is obvious so you shouldn't have any difficulty explaining the phrase you use.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Sz you continue to miss the point as usual, this phrase as used today (and almost always) has nothing to do with scripture it's a political phrase which is the only consistent thing about it in terms of meaning.

Jaszek perhaps you could attempt to explain what you mean, you don't like Muslims that is clear but what argument have you got to convince me that you are correct.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


That is exactly the point, this phrase has nothing to do with the historic or scriptural relationships between the religions, it's an undefined political phrase used to mean anything, lately it's used to place Islam at a distance. Originally used to give evangelical Christianity some biblical justification and to promote the ideas of manifest destiny, it's meaningless nonsense.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Fine, just give a brief definition and history of this tradition and all will be well.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

This so called "tradition" has no basis in reality, if it is clear and obvious explain what it is and when it was established as a tradition?

Before going further we need to know exactly what it is because it seems to mean different things to different people.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

What is this Jewish Christian tradition? Is it religious, political, cultural, a mix of all three and none or is it just a made up thing.

Where was this great undefined idea during Europe's religious wars or earlier before and during the East West schism? How did this so called tradition change to accommodate the changes in both Christianity and The Jewish faiths?

The Christian part is not a unified or settled idea so how do we know what the writer means before he introduces ideas from other schools of thought.

People who use this phrase usually have no idea what they are typing.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Islam and Christianity have a common root in Jewishness there the connection ends. It is not clear that there is a "tradition" linking these religions other than let's be nice to people.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


They do but it's still bollox there is no Judeo/Christian tradition. No one starts a religion by saying let's be bad to people, the roots are unimportant.