News / PO-PiS again neck and neck [248]

It has to be said, that latest poll is a disaster for PiS. It shows that a PO/SLD/Palikot coalition (perhaps on a confidence/supply basis) would be returned to power, and sets the scene nicely for Tusk to retire as PM at the mid-term point, ready for a crack at a position of power in the EU.

I've said it countless times - PiS can win 30% of the vote without really trying. But they need to change their policies - fast - if they want to have any hope of forming the next government.

Study / I want to move Poland from Chicago area and study.. Job prospects, cost of food, healthcare, other expenses [24]


Hardly. That's over 350zl a week - which would go a long way for a student.


On 350zl a week? I think you must have a strange skewed view of costs in Poland if you think that those things are major expenses. A cinema ticket costs about 25zl, a mid range restaurant will cost about 50zl, a cheap weekend trip can be as cheap as 45zl for a weekend train pass...the list goes on.

Of course, you won't live like a king, but a student would find it perfectly easy to live on 350zl a week.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


As I keep saying, junk contracts. It doesn't matter how you phrase it - the fact remains that there are people doing work for you who are employed on junk contracts that you can terminate at any time. They might not be "employed" in the strict sense of the word, but that only makes it worse.

As for what it has to do with me - it's very curious that a foreigner, who has so much to say about the lives of Poles, would choose to contribute to the problem rather than fixing it.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


So your wife runs the company, not you. No real difference.


I'd love to know why you and your wife run a business that screws over young Poles by hiring them on junk contracts.

And for that matter, I'd also like to know why you made racist posts towards members of this forum.


Nothing wrong with that.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Or let's judge them to an openly verifiable set of criteria that demands that administration costs come to no more than 10% of donations along with other things - such as making sure that they spend the majority of their donations every year on charitable causes.

I'm sure you're well aware that foundations throughout the world are becoming like businesses with managers on big salaries.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

Honestly, I'm more surprised that you've got the nerve to come on here and tell everyone how poor Poland is and how big your flat is, all the while employing people on junk contracts with no job security. A quick look at your website shows some young people as well - so it's even worse.


Try again, I don't work for a language school. But I do have a proper contract and don't have to worry about how I'm going to feed myself in the summer because my foreign boss keeps me on a junk contract that benefits him and not me.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

Yes.

For one simple reason : foundations are routinely abused in Poland for their tax-exempt status. A foundation should only benefit from such a status if they meet reasonable criteria, such as spending no more than 10% on administration costs.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


You probably won't find much support with that theory among Poles, but I think there is definitely an element of it. For example : look at the trains whenever there's a long weekend - they're packed full of students going home. There are so many other things, but it is my opinion that the family culture hurts the employability of many people. It's even as simple as students going home every weekend rather than staying to gain experience in their field - or treating holidays as holidays, not as time to get that experience.

Like you say, the word "free" being used is almost certainly a reference to being able to do what they want rather than being obliged to return home.


I think - in all fairness - Poland would win in the raw ingredients stakes, but would lose badly in other respects. For example - a dish involving chicken, rice and vegetables would be cheaper here. But if you wanted to make an Indian using pre-prepared things, then it would probably cost more - anything 'speciality' tends to come at a premium. On the good side, it encourages you to learn how to cook - but it's still frustrating that some ordinary things in the UK cost so much in Poland. And some things are just marketed differently - in the UK, for instance, lentils are ridiculously cheap. But in Poland, they're seen as an "eko" product with the price tag to match. Same with chickpeas. On the flip side, I don't think anyone in the UK thinks in terms of kilograms for meat.

And there are no ridiculously cheap jars of curry sauce here :(


Now - this is something. Poland is absolutely unforgiving if life does go pear shaped - I think it does encourage personal responsibility, although I guess the standard procedure is for the family to help if something goes wrong. What always seemed strange to me was that the Polish culture seems to think that it is cruel to put an elderly relative in care, even if the person needs it - instead, family members are supposed to give up their lives to care for the person instead. I don't get it, and I think it's a form of imprisonment for the family.


Were these in the city centre by any chance? What usually seems to happen is that these places are recovered by the original owners, but they don't have the money to renovate nor the means to get those people out. And of course, who is going to renovate a building if the tenants don't have the means of paying anyway?


So for all your posturing, you actually admit to employing people on junk contracts with no job security? :)

For what it's worth, good schools can and do offer umowa o prace.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


I see you're still avoiding the question as to whether you actually pay Polish people a living wage with a proper contract.

Oh, and a source for your claim that 90% of people are living in communal properties would also be nice.

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]


Hahahaha. :)

History / Poland is a Catholic country [177]

This is about whether or not Polonius has read the Constitution.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Nice insult, but you still haven't answered whether you actually pay people a living wage with a proper contract yet. All that ranting about Poland being poor - I mean, you wouldn't be taking advantage now, would you?

News / Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday? [208]


I have my doubts as to the validity of that poll. I mean, they wouldn't publish something that is contradictory to what they want, right?


If one knows that one cannot work to earn money on Sunday, one knows that one will be poorer.

Not a problem for those living in nice houses in Warsaw, of course.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


But it doesn't work like that, because Brits have little interest in Poland. What's interesting is that Poles are going everywhere, not just to the UK. I wonder if there are any official statistics on the matter?


Plenty of Brits went to Spain - a poorer country.


Quite a bit of time. The pace of construction is staggering by British standards. So many new (and utterly ill thought out, devoid of planning process) houses are going up, even in areas that are far away from cities.

History / Foreigners in Poland during Martial Law [8]

Did you get any special treatment as a foreigner (like extra scrutiny), or were you just subject to the same restrictions as everyone else?

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Are you trying to claim that all migrants are leaving for economic reasons?


Sorry, but city centre communal flats aren't representative of Poland as a whole. It's not exactly a big secret that city centres (especially in places such as Szczecin) are filled with "pathology" - which was very much a deliberate destructive policy of the Communists to put such people there. It's getting even worse now that these places are often being reclaimed by the old owners that want such people out.

Still waiting for some evidence of your claim that 90% of people in Szczecin live in communal flats.

I wonder, do you pay a living wage?

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

I dunno, I think you'd be more likely to get yourself into trouble for all those racist comments you made.

Are all these comments about Poles being poor based on the pathetic salaries you pay? I mean, given all your talk on this thread, are you paying people a living wage on umowa o prace, or are you doing the same old thing of putting them on umowa o dzielo?

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

The problem in Poland is that there is a general reluctance to move for work. It's strange, because they were willing to emigrate for work - but there is this very queer undertone of "you are expected to stay close to family". I've never understood it, but I've seen several cases where people quit good jobs to return closer to their families.

I've always thought for some people, the UK was an escape from the Polish way of being rather than for purely economic purposes.


It's the difference between educated and uneducated - those with a good education and a decent job in Poland are far more likely to move to improve themselves rather than for money.


Prices are nowhere near the UK for essential things. Can you get a huge loaf of bread for 40p that has been baked on-site a few hours ago? Nope. Things that aren't essential (electronics, etc) might be equal, but the cost of ordinary life is much lower.


They would be outraged because they wouldn't want to admit it - they would probably tell me that I'm a "Stupid foreigner" and that life is incredibly hard for them blah blah. Heard it many times, yet rarely seen any real evidence of poverty.


Give it time. Things are improving, but when you see the state of the police in more developed countries, you don't have much faith.


Good luck with it. While the people might have their basic needs met, they certainly aren't getting their needs met with the ridiculous justice system.


Those with a good education are going because they want to, the ones without education are probably looking at it from a purely "I can earn minimum wage in Poland, or minimum wage in the UK" angle.

Life / Cost of Living in Lodz [50]


It's actually a banned poster called Deepak. I can spot him a mile away.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Good question. I don't support good standards of living for those that don't contribute back - for me, you have to earn your way somehow.

But going back to the first question - why? Hard to tell, because there are many people from poor (but good) families acting like total twats despite the parents being decent people.

History / Foreigners in Poland during Martial Law [8]

That was my understanding. I know that many journalists were summoned to the authorities and were told to leave. Certainly by reading the newspapers of the time, it's clear that they were heavily relying on second/third hand reports.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


No, but if they choose to act like an idiot rather than getting their head down, then it's no surprise that they have it tough later.

Nothing wrong with being thick (I know one guy - who despite being intellectually hopeless, now does very well for himself with renovation work), but everything wrong with being a twat.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


What has that got to do with anything at all? I'd still have health care, I'd still have free education, I'd still be able to eat, I'd still have a roof over my head, I'd still be warm...


The black economy is huge in Poland because of a lack of enforcement, not for any other reason. If they started going after every single person advertising on Gumtree, habits would change - quickly. It's exactly the same story with driving.

As for those working in the black economy - I'm referring specifically to those who have a trade.


Numbers vary, but they all seem to come in around 55-70% depending on source. I suspect this might have something to do with those cooperative apartments.


Thank you for the links :)

It's another thread, but one thing that interests me about Poland is the attitude of students towards work and specifically work experience.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Oczywiście.

Talking about emigration - if we're talking today, people seem to be going for two reasons. Either they have no hope (someone with no education in Poland is going to struggle) - or they had other reasons. Some of my friends have left, not for money/a better life, but solely because they wanted to get their English to a really high standard and it wouldn't happen in Poland. Others have gone because of loving different cultures - for instance, I know a girl now in Turkey. One thing is certain - the social mobility of young Poles is unbelievable for me, particularly as most of my school friends haven't even left the same city.


Actually, the minimum wage isn't anywhere near so high as that. It's currently 1600zl a month in Poland, and in the UK, it is 4950zl a month. That's slightly over three times - which given the astronomical cost of living in the UK, the end result is pretty similar. Social insurance deductions aren't that much different - 12% employee, 14% employer versus 19% employee/20% employer in Poland. The lack of child allowance is replaced with tax deductions, too.


I don't see what's so difficult - there's a health service, a free education service, public transport is subsidised by the State, etc etc. No-one is saying it's easy, but then again, it's not easy to live on minimum wage in the UK either. What the real difference is that in Poland, no-one is going to pay you to sit around. If you went through school shouting swear words at teachers and being thick as mud, then you're going to have a very hard life. As it should be.


I'm looking at it realistically - Poland is not anywhere near as bad as you paint it to be.


Absolutely. We all know how social networks are very, very useful in Poland for getting things done.


The Polish black economy is huge - some estimates have it at 25% of GDP. The UK is also far, far more keen on hunting such people down.


People tend to get reported because of personal grudges, not because of do-gooders. This is the big difference.


And yet those rules and regulations can often be completely ignored, like the Poles do. The trick is in knowing which to ignore. I don't want to go into specifics, but for example, I have permission to do something that in the UK would never be granted. There are conditions attached to the permission, but in general, I was able to negotiate with the authorities to get it - it just wouldn't happen in the UK like that.


90% of the housing is owned by the city? I'd like to see some verification of that, given that in Poland, the owner-occupier rate in urban areas is 69%. I very much doubt that Szczecin is somehow different. Even my own building has 60% private owners. You do realise that Poland had her own Thatcher-style sell off of council stock, and that most of the flats in the 70's/80's building boom were bought at the time, right?

Perhaps some history lessons wouldn't go amiss.


Depends who we are talking about, as I think it's important to distinguish between "those who need to" and "those that want to".

Someone growing up in a terrible village somewhere who didn't bother getting an education doesn't have much choice, but then again, the same person in the UK would be sitting on the dole anyway - so fair play to the Poles for actually getting up and doing something.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

Yep, all entirely legal. No wonder Denmark has such high taxes!

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

EU law - you can continue to receive your unemployment benefits in other EU countries for up to 3 months, paid at the same rate as back home. Don't worry - the cost to Poland is nil - they will claim all the costs back from the country that they came from.


That isn't Poland paying, the bill gets sent back to the country that they come from - as far as I know?

Must admit, I'm very, very, very firmly against any benefits being paid cross-border. The EU really has made a total balls up in this respect.


expat ; see also : ifor bach.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Oh dear. I know you've got a reputation for making absurd statements on here, but this makes me laugh.

No, I don't hang out in 'expat' places. I know some, sure - but my friends are mostly Poles. I work with mostly non-English speaking Poles (I did a count a while ago - the company I work for has perhaps 6 English speakers and around 40 monolingual Polish speakers), so I don't spend my life in any sort of bubble. I live in a pretty ordinary flat among pretty ordinary people - really, I couldn't be further from the whole 'expat' scene if I tried. And yes, I speak Polish well enough to know them.

I think you're yet another one that makes the mistake of taking Polish people at face value. Trying to make out that they're all "incredibly poor" is quite, quite wildly off the mark.

No-one is saying that they're wealthy, but they certainly aren't poor by world standards.


Oh dear. You've been in Poland since 1997 and you still don't know about the prevailing attitude here to such a thing? It is changing slowly, but in general, it's seen as a no-no to do such a thing.

Tell you what though, do a test. Do an exercise with their students, and ask them about a variety of scenarios in which someone is doing something bad that doesn't affect them directly - for instance, tax dodging, speeding (in a place safe to do so) and other victimless crimes. Ask them if they would report such a person. You'll almost certainly find that their attitude is completely different to ours.

Why do you think the new rules about segregating rubbish relies on neighbours to influence neighbours and not the authorities? It's the only way that it can work.


See, you're yet again displaying complete arrogance towards Polish people. They aren't incredibly poor compared to Western European standards, because for a start, many working class people actually own the properties they live in. Get your head out of your arse and stop being so bloody condescending towards them.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


That and girls. They haven't quite figured out yet that no Polish girl worth having will be interested in such a person ;)

But to go back on topic : what is particularly interesting is that some foreigners seem to have a very downtrodden opinion of Poles and how they live. I can't figure it out, but I suspect it is some sort of psychological reinforcement. I've noticed this especially among those who haven't found their place in Poland - they sneer at Poles, yet they themselves are far worse off than the Polish people.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]


Common sense. You won't find many working class people at top universities in the UK. Poland is full of them, as the barriers for entry are significantly lower. Perhaps not in all faculties, but in general, a top university education is available to all in Poland.


Ignorance? Of what? The fact that people will be quick to jump on the phone to report a tax dodger in the UK, but in Poland, doing business that way is considered normal?


They are incredibly cheap by European standards, and many free courses exist - funded by the EU. I work with one girl who studies part time - her course is less than 300zl a month!


Paulina, I never do this, but LOL! I genuinely laughed out loud when I read this :)

I admire the way that the Poles came to the UK, found that it wasn't set up for them and promptly went about opening bakeries/etc. They didn't whine online, they just got on with it.


From what you've written, very very little. Maybe a niggling point or two, but nothing worth even writing about. The rest, I completely agree with.


More and more are turning up - I even encountered one Spanish guy handing out leaflets a while ago. That made me wonder, but then - with Poland's social mobility, he could always find some opportunity in Poland. Spain seems to be absolutely dead in comparison.

For what it's worth, I think many of them are actually causing trouble. I know one Spanish teacher who is exasperated with having to deal with a succession of "natives" turning up - many of whom speak terrible Spanish.

Seems rather socialist of you, Polonius.


Says the immigrant to Canada who spent a significant amount of time on welfare.

Life / Poland's expats' colonial mentality? [176]

But Poland has far more social mobility than the UK, and many activities such as working on the side attract absolutely no scrutiny unlike in the UK. Swings and roundabouts - a working class person here can work full time, go to university part time (I know several people that did this) to better themselves and leave with no debt, whereas a working class person in the UK would be highly unlikely to be able to do this.

It's worth pointing out that *if* someone has a problem here, such as with alcohol, then the consequences are far more severe than in the UK. It seems to me that the propoganda from society is partially to blame for working class problems, particularly encouraging women to stay at home while the man has to work all the hours to pay for it.

What I do notice about Poland much more than the UK is that many working class women look significantly older than they are. But this is quite understandable - if they've had to work, bring up children and look after the home while the husband works (often no harder than the woman) and then demands to rest, no wonder they look shattered.