News / The "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign theft from Oswiecim, Poland [240]


The Mengele remark was unfortunate, but it was from 1973 and there's no trace of it on the current museum position link.

From a reading of that link, I think the museum's position is that anything that was left at the site and/or which came into the museum's possession is seen as historical evidence and not subject to return to anyone. They could phrase it better certainly.

They could also make the point that the portraits were done without the consent of the subjects and doubtless she was cooperating with the persecution of the Roma in the camp (under duress and in a desperate situation herself, but still....) If the link is to be believed Roma survivors and Roma organizations are siding with the museum (and their wishes are probably stronger than her claim for me).

You might disagree with the museum's current position but it's very different from what some commie official said over thirty years ago and your refusal to state it in any other way is disingenuous at best.

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]


Do you have any clear evidence (beyond some public lip service) that the US is really upset because some Poles overstay their visa? With every politician in the country clamoring for amnesty for people who never had a visa in the first place? With the cheap labor uber alles mentality of American business?

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

My own opinion is that there's no evidence whatsoever that the US government cares about people overstaying visas (or staying in the US with no visa).

On the other hand, consular sections in countries where visas to the US are still required generate revenue and the US doesn't want to give that up and so it makes sure to refuse enough people to justify still requiring visas.

News / The "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign theft from Oswiecim, Poland [240]

I think the Babbit case is less about Polish Jewish relations and more about museum vs creator. There are often similar issues with native american art and museums. Museums always care more about the object than the people associated with them.

Life / Ripped Off in Poland? - Expose here: [185]


So you've spent all this time and effort pursuing something you yourself find to be ridiculous?

Just how is this a constructive use of your time?

Life / Ripped Off in Poland? - Expose here: [185]


"Slavic muddle" is the term traditionally used in English.

On the whole, consumer rights are dependent on knowing how things work locally. Here, that includes knowing how to effectively complain in Polish, which means not really complaining as such. One trick (besides knowing which fights are worth it and which to walk away from) is to phrase things so that you and the person you're complaining to are on the same side. Another is to not lose your temper, you'll get further by being pleasant (while making it clear you're not going anywhere until you're satisfied).

Yeah, I've had some bad experiences here with bad products and/or service, but on the whole not really more than in the US. I even remember how in the early 90's I bought a radio from a sidewalk vendor and took it back the next day and exchanged it because it didn't work right. On the other hand, I mostly find Polish bureacracy easier to deal with then US bureaucracy, so what do I know?

Food / Adwokat vodka with egg yolk [16]

I can't believe you're giving instructions for making heroin!!! Oh my god, this new format is already destroying the moral fiber of this place? Won't _anyone_ think of the children????

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

The question of whether Polish is 'useful' or 'valuable' outside of Poland is irrelevant. If you're in Poland for an extended period of time and don't speak it, you're basically a loser and putting yourself at other people's mercy and willingness to communicate with you.

Personally, I found corporate expats (business people stationed in Poland by their companies) to be a dreary bunch when I rubbed elbows with them in the 90's. Their primary non-work activity in Poland is to create a separatist bubble and pretend they're not in Poland.

Other people, here on their own initiative and not supported by an inplace infrastructure and group of employees paid to make things easy for them, have to learn Polish well enough to function (just what level this is will differ on a case by case basis).

A slight exception is a certain kind of (usually, but not always, British) English teacher who regards Polish the way missionaries regard pagan idols and sacrificing virgins to volcanoe gods, as a backward practice that needs to be eliminated (to be fair, I've only met a few of these, but they absolutely do exist).

American monolingualism has a lot of causes and the idea that Americans don't have to learn foreign languages is probably a minor one. The two more important causes are the fact that as an immigrant culture without much shared history (relatively speaking) Americans aren't bound by the kinds of common experience that, for example, Italians are. A common language (American, not 'English') is one of the few cultural symbols that hold Americans together.

Secondly, the immigrant experience has caused that Americans often cannot distinguish between visitors and immigrants (or between non-Americans in their own countries and immigrants). Part of the immigrant experience is the idea of using any other language as little as possible and English as much as possible. Americans tend to unconsciously treat anyone they meet abroad as a newly arrived immigrant, still ignorant of our ways and in need of encouragement (or coercion) to speak English to better assimilate.

(Added: Another factor is that English speaking countries have _terrible_ English classes for their children. While English speakers have amazing dictionary making traditions, they have the worst grammar writing tradition of any European language. What was traditionally taught in schools as "English grammar" is nonsense. It's unworkable and unteachable and demonstrably false but if you try to update it, the traditionaists scream bloody murder. The result is an appalling ignorance of how _any_ human language works and university English majors who don't know the difference between an object phrase and an adverbial phrase (and the cycle continues).

Finally, some people find language learning to be a valuable intellectual exercise worth doing for its own sake quite apart from questions of later payoff or exploitation, and others don't. I belong to the former category and fuzzywickets probably belongs to the latter.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

FUZZYWICKETS, why so hostile sounding? Your tone seems very confrontational and dismissive, is that on purpose?

IME 'expats' (a group I never count myself among) don't learn Polish, they have their own little English speaking ghetto. On the other hand, foreigners who live in Poland have to learn Polish (though I've known of a couple of exceptions who have no end of problems and end up totally dependent on the kindness of friends and strangers). I've known lots of non-Poles from various countries who learn Polish well enough to deal with bureaucracy (in Polish) on their own, keep up with the news and maintain a social life. They generally have accents and make predictable mistakes, but so do most non-native speakers of English (or any language).

And Polish is the fifth largest language (in terms of native speakers) in the EU. Within the EU there are more Polish native speakers than Spanish native speakers. That's enough to say it's a major European language.

My story for the day: I have to see a doctor (sinus aggravation) but haven't signed up for a family doctor. A friend who knows more about healthcare than I do did some calling around and found a likely place. So I called up.

(conversation in Polish)

Clinic : Hello
Me : Hello, are you still accepting patients? I'd like to sign up there if possible.
Clinic : It depends, where do you live?
Me : (Street name)
Clinic : We're accepting patients from (neighborhood).
Me : That (street) is in (neighborhood).
Clinic : Okay, when did you want to come in.
Me : Either after 3 today or tomorrow morning.
Clinic : Okay, is 9.30 tomorrow morning okay?
Me : Fine.
Clinic : So be here at about 9 for the paperwork, now what's your name.
Me : (Obviously non-Polish last name).
Clinic : Oh ..... (confused) are you anglojęzyczny? (strange way to ask I thought)
Me : Why yes I am.
Clinic : (obviously concerned and a little confused) Well, if we accept you as a patient, you'd have to communicate in Polish here ....
Me : That's not a problem

What was weird was that the transaction was going perfectly normally until she heard my name at which point the sure Polish knowledge that anglophones don't speak Polish kicked in (even though there'd been no problem previously in the conversation). In retrospect I think maybe she got confused and thought I was calling to sign up someone else.

Language / When to use: Znać/Wiedzieć & lub/albo [23]

Looks like a frozen construction (maybe from a time before the current usage stabilized).

That doesn't change the basic distinction. Some quick googling seems to indicate that if you drop the 'ją tam' or 'go tam' the basic meaning is unchanged although the pragmatic meaning probably does.

Ale kto ją tam wie, co naprawdę chciała? vs Ale kto wie, co naprawdę chciała?

w tym rzecz że kto ją tam wie czy i ona na tym w jakiś sposób nie zarabia. vs

w tym rzecz że kto wie czy i ona na tym w jakiś sposób nie zarabia.

kto go tam wie o co mu chodzi vs kto wie o co mu chodzi

In other words, the 'ją tam', 'go tam' and 'ich tam' would seem to have some kind of discourse/pragmatic function rather than give any real clue on how 'wiedzieć' is used.

Real Estate / Renting in Krakow, Poland - the safest district? fairly close to the city centre... [25]

Ced, mostly post WWII Poland has a lot more economic integration than in some countries. The rich and poor live very close to each other (often in the same buildings). Overall the concept of safe and non-safe neighborhoods is mostly not really an issue.

The partial exceptions are the 60's-80's big housing estates on the outskirts of the city (though I lived in one and it was no problem whatsoever) and sometimes neighborhoods with a high percentage of older buildings in poor repair (that aren't in or close to the old town).

Street crime in Poland is much more a function of chance and bad luck (coming across the wrong person at the wrong time) than being in the wrong neighborhood at he wrong time.

Also, don't pay too much attention to what Polish people you may now tell you. Many Poles are convinced that crime is rampant and that big parts of most of the cities are dangerous at night. The statistics however are not on their side.

Language / When to use: Znać/Wiedzieć & lub/albo [23]


Yes, thanks for the correction. That was basically a typo, I fully intended 'znam odpowiedź' and am a little mortified that I didn't notice that sooner.

Love / Polish girlfriend going back to Poland if I dont buy engagment ring [85]

If this is a real comment (as opposed to a troll) I think the problem is that she's not seeing any signs that you're thinking of marriage.

Most Polish women want to know pretty early on (earlier than women in a lot of western countries) if the relationship is headed toward marriage. It doesn't have to be tomorrow or next week and something could happen to change everybody's plans, but they want to know if marriage is a realistic expectation.

There's no big tradition of engagement rings being especially important in Poland so my best guess is that she's looking for some concrete signs of eventual marriage from your side (beyond talking about it).

What to do: Depends on if you're really serious about marrying her or not (again, not necessarily tomorrow but in the not too distant future).

1. If you're not serious about the prospect of marriage then do nothing or tell her and she'll leave or recalculate your relationship and dump you (maybe quite suddenly after she's found a better prospect). If your position is that you're just f*ckbuddies then that's how she'll treat you.

2. If you are serious about the prospect of marriage, then get a ring or do something else that makes her believe that the relationship is on course for legalization. Just reassuring her might be enough or it might take more drastic measures. But nb, there's no idea in Poland that an engagement ring should cost 2 months salary or anything like that, between 100 and 200 pounds should be sufficient.

Work / Polish Residency Cards. Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners? [37]

You might have a look here:

udsc.gov.pl

there is an English option.

Note a quick look indicates that EU citizens are sometimes treated as 'foreigners' and at other times not.

Especially look here: udsc.gov.pl/FREQUENTLY,ASKED,QUESTIONS,809.html

question number 6 is the one you want.

Usual caveats apply:

1. Just because it's an official government website doesn't mean it's up to date.

2. Just becasue it's official government policy doesn't mean regional offices are up to date.

3. The English version of regulations has no legal force, only the Polish version is recognized when there are mistranslations or discrepancies between the Polish and English versions (and there often are).

etc etc etc

Work / Polish Residency Cards. Is there a Permanent ID card for Foreigners? [37]

The only answers to your questions that matter are those given by the particular office you'll be applying to (and also partly depend on info you haven't volunteered like your nationality). Plan to spend half a day (or more!) waiting in line as soon as possible at the office that will renew your card, bring a Polish friend if your Polish is not up to dealing with Polish legalese. Ask for info in writing.

Any info volunteered here (except for links to legal regulations in Polish) will be largely irrelevant and not necessarily those of the office you'll actually be dealing with.

There is a permanent residence card but it requires (I think) at least 5 years of residency (among other requirements). I got it about 5 years ago but regulations might have changed between then and now.

Polonia / What About The Poles In The Netherlands? [102]

Poles from the netherlands wouldn't be posting here since Polish is not allowed. Most Poles in the Netherlands might know some basic English (or they might not).

And it's not easy to learn Dutch in Poland so most won't write in Dutch either. The little I've seen of writings by Poles in the Netherlands indicates that it's difficult to find language classes even in the Netherlands. I seem to recall that that's always been a problem for immigrants, even ones that want to assimilate find it difficult to try.

A few seconds googling did find some forums, but they're all in Polish.

niedziela.nl/forum/

forum.gazeta.pl/forum/f,24271,Polacy_w_Holandii.html

witam.nl/forum/index.php

mojaholandia.fora.pl

Finally, I have the impression that most Poles in the Netherlands are working in all Polish environments and not in the kinds of positions where they come into contact with many Netherlanders.

Law / Bureaucracy in Poland [53]


The problem is most Polish people (despite what they might say) like and want centralized paper-heavy bureaucracies. They would feel adrift and rudderless without a lot of useless regulations to try to bypass.

Work / Advice on Teaching English in Poland [709]


To be honest, I don't think most Polish people think of Indian people as suitable teachers of English.

On the other hand, if you speak Hindi you might be able to find a job at a university (use google to get addresses and send out your cv to every university possible). There's been an increase in interest in Indian culture (esp thru bollywood movies).

At the very least, marketing yourself as able to teach two languages couldn't hurt and could give you an edge.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

No linguist takes the 'more words' argument seriously for lots of reasons. (for one there's no way to define 'word' that works well across a lot of languages).

Also, there's no research that shows that the active vocabularies of English speakers is larger to a statistically significant degree than speakers of any other European language.

English speakers do have the most highly developed lexicographic traditions in the world but that mostly means that dictionaries have a lot of rarely used words in them.

The use of english in many countries means that English speakers often come across unfamiliar words from other dialects but that doesn't mean they learn and then use them.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


This isn't the majority view and it doesn't really go with my experience. In translating from Polish to English my biggest problems are 1) there's no good word in English for a particular Polish word 2) Polish collocations are more flexible across parts of speech than English ones are. I find Polish to be endlessly fascinating in how it lexicalizes reality differently than English does.

I can't imagine wanting to live in Poland without knowing Polish for one very big reason: Poland and Polish people are a lot more interesting in Polish than they are in English. Two (among more) reasons 1) there are very big differences between what Polish people say in English vs what they say in Polish 2) Polish speakers are more conformist and less original in English than in Polish, they're more likely to say what they think you want to hear in English while you'll get the real story in Polish.

One big hurdle for English speakers in Poland is that the first Polish people they come across will speak English and give them lots of positive reinforcement for not learning Polish.

Food / Chinese restaurant / takeaway / supermarket Poznan [7]

Takeaway/delivery isn't generally a big deal here.

About the best Asian food in Poznan is a small Viet-Chinese place on Szamarzewskiego street, not too far from Rynek Jeżycki.

Work / Advice on Teaching English in Poland [709]

What I did (when I still did private lessons):

First, I always framed the interaction so that I wasn't attempting to obtain their business, they were attempting to obtain, and keep, my services.

Second, I told them my cancelation policy. (This was before the days of cellphones): Let me know X number of hours ahead of time or you're liable the money and further lessons will depend on being paid for the cancelled lesson. There was no negotiation here, just me setting out the conditions which they were free to accept or reject.

Third, I was a little .... lax in enforcement, which is expected here culturally. If a good customer, and good student, uncharacteristically cancelled I didn't dun them for money and might even turn down offers to pay "this time". If a flake who wasn't a good learner cancelled at the last minute, then I just didn't contact them again, _they_ had to contact _me_ which put things on a whole different ground.

A couple of extras:

Being able to speak Polish helps in finding and keeping private students; no matter what they say Polish students are reassured by a teacher who speaks Polish and tend to trust them more (in my case - native English speaker with no Polish family - it also served as proof that I knew something about language learning).

Also switching from Polish to English was a clear signal that the lesson had begun and switching back to Polish was a clear signal that the lesson was over. I wasn't a clock watcher in private lessons and was generous with time when I was there but when I was done, I was done.

Not caring about whether you gain or lose any particular student helps maintain a professional attitude. Learners are not reassured by a teacher who seems desperate for their business.

Food / Borscht - Zurek / Bialy barszcz recipe [153]

IME in Poland people buy already soured żurek starter sold in bottles.

The process seems to have been commercialized but I remember it used to be sold in old unsealed vinegar bottles. The bottles weren't displayed (leading me to think it wasn't entirely legal) but any vegetable seller had them.

Food / How to find Halal Food in Poznan (Muslim food in Poland) [55]

according to wikipedia (caution: wikipedia)

"Whether or not Muslims can use kashrut standards as a replacement for halal standards is an ongoing debate, and the answer depends largely on the individual being asked. While some Muslim halal authorities accept kosher meat as halal, none of the Jewish kosher authorities accept meat certified as halal as kosher due to different requirements.

There's also a whole article on the topic: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws_compared

Food / How to find Halal Food in Poznan (Muslim food in Poland) [55]

There are not many Muslims in Poland so halal food is not a big concern for many people.

A few minutes of googling in Polish didn't find any Muslim organizations (I think they exist but don't have web pages yet) but there is:

Zakład Arabistyki i Islamistyki (department of Arabic and Islamic studies) at the local unversity.

here's the english version of their home page, you might hunt around for email or phone numbers.

staff.amu.edu.pl/~arab/index.en.htm

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

I have the opposite problem since the formal/informal distinction is basically alien to me, I have a habit of retreating to Pan/Pani (because I sometimes forget which I use with a particular person). It's especially embarrassing when a person addresses me (and my American brain understands without noticing whether they used 'ty' or 'pan')

Also, occasionally I have the problem of genuinely not knowing which to use (Polish speakers tell me they have the same problem some times). The wealth of impersonal constructions in Polish are a real godsend then.

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

The Polish/Australian linguist Anna Wierzbicka (and all Poles who I've asked have agreed) the polite way in Polish of asking someone you know well is to use an imperative because this implies recognition of the other person (and is not perceived in terms of power).

Impersonal forms explicitly ignore the person being spoken to and are therefore far more rude in Polish.

compare in decreasing politeness:

(proszę) zamknij drzwi = (please), close the door (the comma is important here)

proszę zamknąć drzwi = please close the door

drzwi zamknąc = to close the door

In most native forms of English, things work very differently. In my own USEnglish the imperative is a risky form because it implies a power hierarchy and potential conflict (and USers try to avoid verbal conflict whenever possible). So the politest strategy is a request instead of an imperative "Do you think you might be able to close the door?" or "think you could get the door?" (which would sound awful and probably rude and condescending in Polish).

Language / Polite forms in Polish vs English [49]

Americans are similar (if not as extreme)

"Would you like some coffee?"
"That's okay"
translation
"No."

Americans are also phobic about giving anyone orders (unless they're in the military or wish they were).

"You know, that's the kind of thing you almost might want to try X."
translation
"Do X! or else!"

"Do you think you might be able to open the window?"
translation
"Open the damned window already!"

"yeah ... I think I might have mentioned that before."
translation
"Are you f**king deaf? I told you a thousand times!"

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]


Except that 'types of English conditional(s)' aren't part of the education of English speaking people. Learners of English learn three (or four depending on the model being used) conditionals but it's just not an issue for English speakers (anymore than facultative animacy is an issue for Polish speakers thought learners of Polish have to learn about it).

Language / Present tense, past tense, past participle in polish [34]


I'm sure there are conditionals in the book (maybe labelled as something else) I don't remember if/how participles are covered.

On the other hand she spends time on transposition of endings which is pretty much dead in modern Polish (so you can ignore it! wheeee).