Life / INVISIBLE MAN in shops and offices in Poland? [70]

I'd probably, just say "Halo! Kolejka!" (hey there! there's a line!) if I felt strongly about it (how strongly I felt about it would have a lot to do with the age, sex and behavior of the person cutting in.

On the other hand, I remember one very busy day I had to run several errands (including the post office and pharmacy and somewhere else with annoying lines) in a very short period of time.

Anyway I just went to the head of the line in each case muttering to those politely waiting their turn something like "Przepraszam, ale bardzo się śpieszę" (sorry, but I'm in a real hurry) and amazingly enough no one seemed to mind or at least no one called me on it. I was personally appalled at my behavior but I thought I didn't have much choice.


In Poland it seems to be generally acceptable to ask questions out of line (and then go back and wait your turn). They may just be making sure they're at the right window first. (I'm trying to be generous here).

Life / Young Poles say: Hurray for decay? [35]


I applaud this call for tolerance and a suspension of pre-judgements!


Well, that didn't last long....

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]


The first would be more Polish, a lot would depend on language, without native or at least very fluent Polish they're not 'really' Polish to me...

On the other hand, I've met a few native (or semi-native) speakers of Polish who grew up in NAmerica and came to Poland to see the old country who didn't seem very Polish at all to me.

Genealogy / Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish. [231]

For me, language and culture are more important than blood, I've met people who are linguistically and culturally Polish (as in being born and living their whole lives there) with German, Jewish, Czech, Greek, Italian, English(!), African, Romanian etc last names.... There are also some Vietnamese whose families immigrated when they were small children and who are more Polish than Vietnamese in terms of language and culture.

On the other hand, John Szymanski who was born and raised in the US (and can't even pronounce his last name in Polish) isn't really Polish as far as I'm concerned (though if he says he is I won't contradict him out of politeness).


People born in Poland to non-citizens do not receive Polish citizenship.

Life / Young Poles say: Hurray for decay? [35]


Who says that? Why should Polish young people not be .... human, with all the typical weaknesses thereof?

News / 30 years of Solidarity in Poland? Fat chance! [23]


Except they've switched sides, which is a little confusing.

News / 30 years of Solidarity in Poland? Fat chance! [23]

Well Solidarity's goal was never the establishment of capitalism (as they understood it). Their model was a western welfare state like Sweden.

News / 30 years of Solidarity in Poland? Fat chance! [23]

asik, I'm sympathetic to Kaczyński for his loss (and willing to point out good points of Lech).

But the last few months have been pretty grisly and in poor taste as Jarek tries to hide politically behind his dead brother (reframing criticism of Jarek as complicity in Lech's death) and I've had enough of it. It's kind of sickening and I'm glad he got called publicly on it.

News / 30 years of Solidarity in Poland? Fat chance! [23]


The weirdest reaction was that of Szczypińska, Jarek's girlfriend (yeah, right). She was all smiles. It could have been a weird reaction of disbelief but she looked like she was having a great time hearing Krzywonos read the riot act.

She was also all smiles when PiS lost the parliamentary elections a couple of years ago, she seemed thrilled that her party lost..... weird.

Travel / My (short) Poland experiences - bad luck? [142]


No, I don't. It's not that I think there's a shortage of general intolerance in Poland (though it seems worse than it is imho) but I'm sick of 'racist' being used anytime somebody doesn't like someone else. It's not like there's a shortage of acceptable words to describe what you want (starting with xenophobic).

And, the drinking thing sounds seriously weird and not very Polish. Polish women do drink socially though they might be a bit more discreet about it than men. On the other hand, they often issue disclaimers about how they never drink, but maybe they'll have a sip this one time before downing a massive shot of vodka like a pro. I think that was just the people you were with.

I do think a woman showing obvious and open pleasure (and anticipation of) a good stiff drink is going to raise eyebrows (and the assumption that she has a problem and shouldn't be indulged).

Travel / My (short) Poland experiences - bad luck? [142]


Since when do Polish and Irish people belong to different races? Update your vocabulary please.

Life / Any treatment centres for homos in Poland? [455]

IIRC the reason that homosexuality was removed from the list of mental illnesses was primarily due to diagnostic reasons. There was no simple diagnostic in terms of maladaptive behaviors* that could be diagnosed as 'homosexual'.

Similarly homosexuality in and of itself didn't necessarily impact other areas of the person's life. That is, if you control for homosexuality**, there was no difference between homosexually and heterosexually oriented individuals in other spheres of life.

Homosexuality, in other words, didn't make it harder for individuals to find and keep jobs, engage emotionally with others or in other kinds of daily functioning. And adult homosexuality in and of itself had no adverse effect on others in the person's environment. None of this applies to those affected by Alzheimers nor Tourettes.

In other words, it was considered a mental illness only because it was defined as such (on faith?) and not due to any observable real world adverse effects (of the kinds that psychologist or psychiatrists normally deal in).

*except for failure to reproduce, which is not in and of itself synchronically maladaptive

**and negative outcomes that can be attributed directly to negative attitudes toward homosexuality

Travel / My (short) Poland experiences - bad luck? [142]


Understandable, as I said, Poland is good for long visits/stays/living, not so much for short visits. It's just not that kind of place.

Travel / My (short) Poland experiences - bad luck? [142]

For me, Poland is a great place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit here.

In short doses the things you describe are going to be what you notice most, the shorter the visit the more prominent they are and the more they form your impressions.

The longer the visit, the less they stand out or matter and other aspects of life here come to the fore.

Not everything changes, the climate will never be as attractive as Spain, the architecture will probably never equal Paris, public places will never be as clean as middle America etc. But certain kinds of behavior or body language that seem rude or unpleasant to the newcomer cease to be that when you live here (and pick them up yourself). I haven't been bothered by customer service here in a long time. It can also be liberating, if the service bothers me I don't hesitate to let my displeasure be known.

Also, language matters. In Poland more than a lot of places, the language you interact with people in changes your perceptions - basically Poland in Polish is a lot more interesting and fun than Poland in English.

Now it's true that some things will still drive you crazy, but different things. (No matter where you live in the modern world some things will drive you crazy, you just need to find things that drive you crazy that you can live with more easily.)

Language / Polish regional accents? [141]


That's universal in modern Polish.


I thought that was more idiosyncratic than regional.


There's a kind of lilt, statements often have something like English question intonation and wh questions (where, when etc) have a high fall and then slight rise at the end, something like (periods are just to make spacing work)

któr
.......................na?
....... ra godzi

Most other accents sound kind of flat in comparison, and people from other parts of Poland who live in Poznan for more than a year pick up the intonation whether they want to or not.

They also say 'tej' instead of 'no' when they're kind of annoyed, słuchaj tej!

Life / Any treatment centres for homos in Poland? [455]


See my post on page 2

Life / Any treatment centres for homos in Poland? [455]

As far as I can tell therapy for changing sexual orientation doesn't really do that.

What it seems to do is give those who are uncomfortable with their sexual orientation something that's more important to them than a sex-romantic life that's emotionally fulfilling. Usually this is religious, so a person who thinks their orientation is in conflict with their religion can achieve the benefit of not sinning which might be more important to them than a sex life. They don't change a person's feelings, just how they respond and/or act on them.

And the 'failure' or 'relapse' rate is really dismal (from the point of view of the therapists).

Of course those who want that kind of therapy should have access to it, but some realism on the very small chances of success (and a clear definition of what success in that context is) would be good.

Language / Question about podoba sie [23]

Basically in Polish, liking is often expresed in the opposite way from English.

The person/thing that is liked is the subject.

The person that likes is in the dative case. The dative is often used for experiences a person has no conscious control over.

Another of thinking of it is to rephrase podobać się as 'to be pleasing to someone'

podobasz mu się
you-are-pleasing to-him (się not relevant here)

podobasz mu się (you are pleasing to him)

podoba mi się (it is pleasing to me)

czy podobam wam się (am I pleasing to you(pl)?)

Also, note that traditionally podobać się is more superficial and not necessarily emotional. Lubić also means like but works like English and it expresses a stronger emotional attachment.

podobać się = esthetically pleasing

lubić = emotional

Life / WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION? [396]


Ah, Seanus, still in denial......

Life / WHY DO POLES USE ENGLISH WORDS IN CONVERSATION? [396]


In American usage, which I'm sure you'll agree is preferable, it's always WEEK-end (and you can't be at it either). When I hear British newscasters say "at the week-END" I wanna shout "What about the weak beginning?"

Food / Does anyone know a good equivalent of 'US cream cheese'? [11]

It could be, I'm not into bagels enough to especially remember.

I used to enjoy going to a local bagel place when I was in the US but that was as much (or more) for the social experience as for the food...

On the other hand, if someone knows where to find fresh corn tortillas (esp white corn) then I'm all ears.

Food / Does anyone know a good equivalent of 'US cream cheese'? [11]

That may be, but I've never come across a bagel (in the american sense of the word) in Poland. Maybe they were more limited to Jewish people (and changed once they got to the US).

FWIW I've known a couple of Polish people who said bagels were the only bread product they liked in the US (and who'd never come across anything like them in Poland).

Food / Does anyone know a good equivalent of 'US cream cheese'? [11]

cream cheese - editd/changed serek śmietankowy

bagel - not unless they're imported. I think there've been plans by expats to import/produce bagels in Poland but I don't think they ever got off the ground

Law / Investors/Entrepreneurs.. Steer Clear of Poland. [77]


What personal attacks? This might be a clue to your problems.
If you can't distinguish between helpfully intended criticism and/or suggestions and personal attacks (hell, it seems you can't distinguish between supportive comments and personal attacks) you might lack something in the 'people skills' department.

Law / Investors/Entrepreneurs.. Steer Clear of Poland. [77]

SHT, one of the many problems with Polish bureaucracy is that it's structured so that the person dealing with it needs to know the regulations better than the people whose job is enforcing them.

And, there's no way on earth to know all the necessary regulations ahead of time. A normal person finds out enough to get started and then makes adjustments as they find out more. But Polish bureaucracy isn't structured so that you can do that easily, get to stage 8 and if there's a problem with getting to stage 9 the Polish system wants you to start from 1 again.

Law / Investors/Entrepreneurs.. Steer Clear of Poland. [77]

Read it again, I was trying to defend you nimrod, I won't make that mistake again.

Law / Investors/Entrepreneurs.. Steer Clear of Poland. [77]

Typical, a foreigner complains about exactly the same things that Polish people complain about constantly - lazy employees - awful bureacracy - idiotic self-defeating regulations - bad business practices and suddenly these turn into things to defend at all costs and it's his fault for thinking his job is to run a restaurant and not know the Polish legal code ahead of time.

Polish people _love_ complaining, unfortunately they mostly don't want to expend any effort to make things better themselves and they'd rather eat razorblades than agree with a foreigner's criticism of their country.

Language / Easiest Language To Learn from English to Polish... [13]

Well almost no one pronounces final d, so Cubans say something like comoetaute? and almost all consonants in Cuban are pronounced in a very .....symbolic manner so what the uninitiated here is a rush of vowels with hints of consonants here and there.

Language / Polish filler words? [24]

"Paranoja" is pretty specific, and very close to "insane" (about a situation) in colloquial American usage.

They said I have to X, it's insane.

Mówią, że muszę X - paranoja.