Life / You are Polish if... [433]

You are Polish if...

you think UK means Ukraine.

Real Estate / Thinking of buying an offplan Luxury Property Wroclaw [79]


Any decent developer will have a programme of works. A penalty clause will make sure he sticks to it. You should make an allowance for unforeseen, bad weather.

Real Estate / Thinking of buying an offplan Luxury Property Wroclaw [79]

Only two things come to mind:-

1) The developers bank may want him to have pre-sales of 20% before they lend them enough to finance the project. Any deposit should not exceed 10% of the value of the flat. Nothing wrong in this as long as the developer does not use your money.

2) The money should be kept in an escrow account to which only you have access. A contract should be written to ensure that the money will only be released to the developer when the building is legalised (all works completed in accordance with the project plans) at a date/price to be agreed with you both. You could also insert a penalty clause with the price reducing for every week beyond the completion date.

This should reserve the flat of your choice and is normally what I do with my clients.

If the developer requires your money to fund the building works then, you are taking a gamble which I would advise against.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

You should be happy!!!!. In another 6 years a developer will be paying you to take a free flat'
Then you can stop whinging and provide for your family. Problem solved.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Yes, it does not matter if its Cuba or Korea. If a free market is allowed, then people will always try to obtain the highest price for what they want to sell. The comparison I made was that in Poland, which has a relatively new real estate market, prices escalated to the extent that to buy a property involves prices which in multiples are many times the average wage.The reason given for this by a few of the posts on here have been due to foreigners/investors pushing up the prices. I was merely pointing out that the Cuban's are now being allowed to sell property for the first time in 60 years and are asking for far higher amounts that the indigenous people earn.

I am not comparing the markets as you suggested, just making a comment on human nature.
If you did not understand the post, ask for clarification. If the statement strikes you as untrue then provide an argument for your views.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


I said "If you follow Milky's logic, its the foreigners who are to blame for pushing up property prices in Poland."

In Jan you said "Poles abroad, foreign investors etc (sick of making this point)"

How is that twisting the facts?

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

In your desperation to make yourself look intelligent you have jumped the gun, I am not trying to prove anything, merely pointing out that Poland is not the only country where property prices seem extremely high in relationship to wages.

Just stating a fact. If you have nothing to say then allow others to comment.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

I was just pointing out for the people who keep harping on about the relationship between multiples of wages and house prices.If you follow Milky's logic, its the foreigners who are to blame for pushing up property prices in Poland.. It's the same the whole world over, people will try to get as much as they can, not just in Poland.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


I wonder if prices will reflect Cuban wages? Milky, it seems like the brothers are all jumping on the bandwagon, must be human nature.

Now many homes in Havana are being sold at $250 per square metre - 12 times the average monthly wage of $20.
One family, Yoel Cruz and his father are selling their three bedroomed house for $22,000, more than a thousand times their monthly income of $19.
Mr Cruz told The Times: 'It's incredible. In Cuba incomes are very low and house prices are very high.

Read more:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2122601/Cuban-property-market-booms-house-buying-allowed-time-1959-Revolution.html#ixzz1qgC6gK7G

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Has anyone said there is a boom, or predicted one?

In 2011, investment demand was
insignificant, and the vast majority of buyers
made conscious purchase decisions in order
to satisfy their own housing needs.

This part of the survey is exactly what I have been saying for over two years now. If you need a roof over your head and can afford it, you buy.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

Maybe the mods changed it because they want to talk up the market?. The report also left out the bit about the crash and property bubble so you cannot really have any faith in it.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


It seems its not only the Swiss Bankers, the British like to profit:-

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120867/Money-laundering-Queens-bank-Coutts-fined-8-75m-taking-despots-millions.html

Its funny that two of the despots I named in the post above are/were from countries which tried to launder money stolen from their own people.

I am sure that all politicians start out with good intentions, they are then corrupted by the greed around them. If the high salary and the expense perks are going to be taken away from you for not doing as you are told, morals go out the window.

The greater the power, the more dangerous the abuse.
Edmund Burke

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Which have been rising on a yearly basis.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


This was done for Milky who insists that there are millions, not thousands.


The figures are monetary amounts, not sizes.

[quote=cms]The numbers of unsold apartments has already been shown.

Do you have a link to these figures, as a percentage say for the ones below 6,000 per m2 and the ones above?

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


This is the latest thing I could dig up from a year ago.The video does not really matter, only so far as to prove a point that nothing like this has happened in Poland. It would be interesting to know how many of the "thousands" of new properties that remain unsold here, were for the higher end of the market (investors) . I did read a couple of years back that only 10% of the flats being built at that time were what were termed as "affordable", have these properties now sold?, is it only the up-market flats waiting to find a buyer? is this why the developers are now aiming for small flats in the 5,000-6000 m2 range?

In the United States, Ireland, The UK and Spain the media has been quick to report on the hundreds of thousands of repossessions and that the number is likely to rise year by year as no solution is found to the debt crises, I find it strange Milky that the Polish Media has suppressed the news here, perhaps its because it has not happened.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

Peterweg, Milky.

This is what I call a crash.:-
youtube.com/watch?v=ccJp6C1xdZ8

If you are so convinced that there is a crash in the Polish property market, perhaps you could provide a link showing this, not words but newsreel or video where whole estates/towns are empty and I do not mean the odd apartment block.

Then, I will agree with you. Construction in Spain has all but stopped dead. They are still building in Poland. Is that a FACT Milky, or not?

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


In all fairness pip, he has had lots off debates with his mates down the pub and he has been making predictions for the past three years. He also has lots of friends of friends who keep him informed of the current situation in the property market and he has "always" discredited "anyone" that is involved in the property market or who has disagreed with him.

I will make my own prediction. In a few weeks he will reactivate an old thread with "What's happening with the property bubble in Poland" or "anyone got the housing sales figures for the last quarter". The only thing predictable is Milky.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


Where do you think they keep the money? in their own country? in a neighbouring African country?.


Good post.

Life / Poland needs more immigrants and their children - which nationalities are the best? [518]


Its been tried. The people at the top just steal the money/aid given. Bokasa, Mugabi, Ghadaffi, the list is endless. If you want to end this, get rid of the Swiss Bankers.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Coming from you, that's a classic reference.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


27th August 2011, its your post.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Not true:-

"this was a political decision to steal from foreigners to try to save the Spanish economy."

The links you provide refer to developers and bank guarantees, how is this a political decision? All this points out is that there was a failure of governmental regulation, the same as the banks in the States, Ireland and the UK. I see none of these governments taking responsibility so why should the Spanish. Even now, some two years into the crises for Spain, the Spanish government still have no idea of the total debts which are owed in the provinces. The markets are still jittery because they believe that the small provincial banks have not fully written down these debts.


Milky, you get sadder by the day. The only company that does not take a risk (Gamble) and has the biggest turnover per year is the Inland Revenue. And before you ask, No,you cannot buy shares in it.

By the way, I have been reading some of your old posts from 2009, you have actually toned down the rhetoric rants about criminality, right wing scum etc. have you realised now that property is not going to fall to 1500 m2 no matter how much you wish it?

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Then why are developers starting new projects. Are you saying that they do not know what they are doing? Should the shareholders of the larger companies not be objecting to any future projects?

If there are two years worth of housing stocks on the market, surely it would not make sense to build any more.


Do you have any links to this data? does it include the figures of the number of new married couples that enter the market each year?

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


If I were you, I would be very careful about calling people liars, look at your post from Aug, 20th, 2011:-

Avalon Aug 20, 11, 11:57 Reply / Quote #9

In Spain, the banks gave guarantee that the deposit money would be safe. They refused to uphold teh guarantees and gave the money to the developers, this was a political decision to steal from foreigners to try to save the Spanish economy. Illegal? yes. Will the Spanish legal system help? no.

Could you provide a link to this information? To "Save" the Spanish economy?, Spain has only been reported as having problems in the past year? How many people, have been buy property, off-plan, in Spain recently? I was not even aware that they were carrying on building. The reason Spains banks are in trouble is because of the money they lent to developers.

It was my impression that the problems with the developers in Spain was not to do with failure to build, it was that they built on land which did not have planning permission. The government then insisted that these houses were demolished. Apparently, the local "mayors" were giving permissions for bribe money, when they never had the authourity to do so.

You are an expert on the Spanish and Polish property markets and yet you cannot answer me when I ask you a question. You live in a flat in Krakow, yet, you live on a farm. You have land which is agricultural, but may be worth a lot of money when/if the council builds a road leading to it. I find this intriguing, especially since you have so much knowledge about property. I believe I asked you before if you had ever actually , physically, built anything, again, you never replied.

peterweg Edited by: peterweg Sep 27, 11, 19:01 Reply / Quote #62
Not disagreeing, I don't know your company situation.

Avalon Sep 27, 11, 22:15 Reply / Quote #63
So you "assume", without knowing the facts.

Posting and not knowing the facts seems to be one of your little foibles. Show me one post that I have made where I have lied, or, STFU and stop making yourself look foolish.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

Is this the IT consultant talking or just the village idiot?

Life / Struggling young Polish couple - try to solve their problem [176]

A mortgage would probably be cheaper than renting.

Work / Salary expectations in Poland [373]


There was a scam in Krakow prior to the credit crises which had lot of publicity. Its to do with not allowing the developers to use the clients money to build and therefore avoiding delays and possible arguments with the developer, it also effectively stops the developer from altering the plans/price during construction.

Work / Salary expectations in Poland [373]


Pip, like you, I hate repeating myself. Some of the Larger developers are listed on the stock exchange. I would imagine that they employ staff to do market research with regard to the demand for new developments. These people are not stupid by any means. They adapt to the market. There are some fools on this forum who imagine that these companies are going out of their way to lose money by providing housing stock that will never be sold. Every week in the Warsaw Business Journal, the property section announces new starts for both commercial and residential projects, which, if you listen to some of the posters on here, are doomed to failure and the developers will go bust.

The fact that repossession of houses are not in the 10's of thousands and to my knowledge, no major development company has gone bankrupt is a minor detail. There must be a property bubble, it's just hard to find, sales have dropped, must be a bubble, prices have gone down a few percent, must be a bubble, some people cannot afford to buy, must be a bubble, banks are not lending for mortgages (banks are in trouble) must be a bubble.

When I see prices drop 50% over a year, then I will call it a bubble.
When, as Milky agrees with his artical above, house prices increased by 100% over a three year period, they have since fallen by lets say 25%, that is not a bubble. You would not lose any money by selling now unless you bought in the high end, if you bought a place to live in you do not lose.

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]


Is this the part of the artical that you do not understand?. Many people have told you on this forum that there was/is a price correction as the rise in prices was unsustainable. Yet, you still insist on this mythical so called property bubble in Poland. If you are going to use this to prove a point, at least read it first. Even if you allowed for people buying at the top of the market in 2007, you are not talking of hundreds of thousands of buyers, the market in Poland is not that big so it would not affect the majority of people. If foreign investors got their fingers burnt, tough, that is not going to hurt the local market.

Here is another artical from today's newspaper. A survey by Lloyds TSB did a survey of house prices/increases over the past 10 years in different countries around the world. Poland does not even warrant a mention, yet you keep going on that prices increased by 300% here:-

dailymail.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2116034/Lloyds-TSB-Global-Housing-Market-Booming-India-leads-world-house-price-league.html

Considering how the Daily Mail likes to print derogatory stories about Poland, I am surprised that there was no mention of prices here..

Even Germany has problems:-

spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,822473,00.html

No country is perfect. I'm the first to admit that I sometimes get angry and frustrated here but that is with the system, not the country itself

Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]

Pip, he does this to keep the thread alive, then, when he gets caught telling lies and giving dodgy stats, he leaves for a couple of weeks and then comes back. You get used to it after three years.