InWroclaw
19 Aug 2014
Real Estate / Poland's apartment prices continue to fall [1844]
Had an in-depth look at flats on the second-hand (secondary as it's known here) market. Although I saw some that have increased their asking prices by a couple of %, I saw far more where the price can be traced using Google or Trovit etc and 5% reductions over the past month or so seem common (reductions in asking price, I don't know what they sold for). There is also a trend towards renting an unsold flat to tenants, unsurprisingly. The impression I come away with after 4 hours of checking 40 pages of flats on the s/m is that some are pricing optimistically (for example in the same block in S Wroc and almost the same size, asking prices can be 15% apart and in my opinion the inferior one in that example is the higher priced one). I think the flats where they drop the price usually sell, but not always. I know of one where the price was dropped over 20% over 3 months and still no buyers are rushing for it. None of this really surprises me because although some people tell me Polish wages have risen, they still seem modest compared to the price of many apartments. Poland is not alone in this, of course. However, judging by how many flats are being built in S Wroc, block after block, hundreds if not thousands of new units, they must be expecting a surge of demand from somewhere at some point. Some developers are offering good discounts now, and when that's failing to work they're renting the flats out with basic furniture. Anyone looking to rent in Wroc should contact me and I can put you in touch with an agent where you get charged no commission and can rent from the developer via an agent. They're not very cheap but they're not actually expensive either. (No, I won't make a penny in the deal, it's merely altruism believe it or not!)
Having looked into that, it transpires Ag the Agent was telling porkie pies about the cheaper flat's location - for it is not in the street she said, but down the road. The ad did not say ok. it said very definitely that street and that street only has one (quite prestige) block. So, the above comment I made is null but I was basing it on what I read.
Somewhat amusingly, an ad for a flat in a part of S Wroc says the estate is holding its value and prices. What that ad does not mention or acknowledge surprise surprise is that the very same flat was over 10% more in price just a few months ago. Irony there, I'd have thought.
Unless I'm going loopy, this graph shows prices down in this good part of Wrocław
wroclaw.domiporta.pl/nieruchomosci/sprzedam-mieszkanie-wroclaw-krzyki--100m2/133936498?clicksource=standard
However, other graphs show less of a drop for different neighbourhoods.
Agents must have buyers though, because when my Polish speaking friend leaves messages for agents to contact me about buying something, none phone back if the place is sold. You'd think they'd want to get their hooks into someone who is buying if buyers are in short supply. So perhaps buyers are not in short supply, because agents take very little interest in keeping in touch with me. If I were selling, I'd be very careful about who I choose as my agent if they let buyers slip through their fingers.
Prestige new estate S Wroc: dev has slashed prices from (for example) 510 tys to 445 tys. I won't post a link unless mods say OK.
Dev nearby also reduced flats by a considerable figure and has put some on for rental.
That said, prices for yet another new but off-plan dev up the road from there are rather ambitious (2015 completion).
This may be of little relevance to me or most readers here, but anyway: a very large and prestigious new flat in one of the best streets, over 200m2, 1,6 million zł, still sitting unsold since 2010. And there aren't many as nice as that one, they're quite a rare beast in that street and that size. There are 2 of that size unsold in the same building of probably just 4 flats, similar prices. (However, the 100m2 approx. new flats on some S Wroc estates seem to be getting reserved early, I assume either for large families or businesses.)
Just checked a more normal estate in a reasonable part of S Wroc.
Between mid 2012 and early last year, flats on the same estate (same street on the same estate too) dropped from 4990 per m2 to 4200 per m2 for very similar sizes (100m2). The upshot is that one could buy a 9m2 bigger flat a year later in the same good condition as the other one but for 10% less if the asking price was paid in both cases. Final selling prices are of course unknown (they are both sold).
Looking at smaller flats now on the same estate, it would seem prices have fallen about 5% in 10 months.
However, looking at flats coming to market now, asking prices often seem to be rising compared to existing stock.
Some weeks ago I mentioned a cheap house. It's still available, and in my view good value compared to most flats. The area it's in isn't the best but fair play to the seller because they have priced it to sell. There are a few more sellers doing that now, slowly getting real. Bit by bit.
Had an in-depth look at flats on the second-hand (secondary as it's known here) market. Although I saw some that have increased their asking prices by a couple of %, I saw far more where the price can be traced using Google or Trovit etc and 5% reductions over the past month or so seem common (reductions in asking price, I don't know what they sold for). There is also a trend towards renting an unsold flat to tenants, unsurprisingly. The impression I come away with after 4 hours of checking 40 pages of flats on the s/m is that some are pricing optimistically (for example in the same block in S Wroc and almost the same size, asking prices can be 15% apart and in my opinion the inferior one in that example is the higher priced one). I think the flats where they drop the price usually sell, but not always. I know of one where the price was dropped over 20% over 3 months and still no buyers are rushing for it. None of this really surprises me because although some people tell me Polish wages have risen, they still seem modest compared to the price of many apartments. Poland is not alone in this, of course. However, judging by how many flats are being built in S Wroc, block after block, hundreds if not thousands of new units, they must be expecting a surge of demand from somewhere at some point. Some developers are offering good discounts now, and when that's failing to work they're renting the flats out with basic furniture. Anyone looking to rent in Wroc should contact me and I can put you in touch with an agent where you get charged no commission and can rent from the developer via an agent. They're not very cheap but they're not actually expensive either. (No, I won't make a penny in the deal, it's merely altruism believe it or not!)
or example in the same block in S Wroc and almost the same size, asking prices can be 15% apart and in my opinion the inferior one in that example is the higher priced one
Having looked into that, it transpires Ag the Agent was telling porkie pies about the cheaper flat's location - for it is not in the street she said, but down the road. The ad did not say ok. it said very definitely that street and that street only has one (quite prestige) block. So, the above comment I made is null but I was basing it on what I read.
Somewhat amusingly, an ad for a flat in a part of S Wroc says the estate is holding its value and prices. What that ad does not mention or acknowledge surprise surprise is that the very same flat was over 10% more in price just a few months ago. Irony there, I'd have thought.
Unless I'm going loopy, this graph shows prices down in this good part of Wrocław
wroclaw.domiporta.pl/nieruchomosci/sprzedam-mieszkanie-wroclaw-krzyki--100m2/133936498?clicksource=standard
However, other graphs show less of a drop for different neighbourhoods.
Agents must have buyers though, because when my Polish speaking friend leaves messages for agents to contact me about buying something, none phone back if the place is sold. You'd think they'd want to get their hooks into someone who is buying if buyers are in short supply. So perhaps buyers are not in short supply, because agents take very little interest in keeping in touch with me. If I were selling, I'd be very careful about who I choose as my agent if they let buyers slip through their fingers.
Prestige new estate S Wroc: dev has slashed prices from (for example) 510 tys to 445 tys. I won't post a link unless mods say OK.
Dev nearby also reduced flats by a considerable figure and has put some on for rental.
That said, prices for yet another new but off-plan dev up the road from there are rather ambitious (2015 completion).
This may be of little relevance to me or most readers here, but anyway: a very large and prestigious new flat in one of the best streets, over 200m2, 1,6 million zł, still sitting unsold since 2010. And there aren't many as nice as that one, they're quite a rare beast in that street and that size. There are 2 of that size unsold in the same building of probably just 4 flats, similar prices. (However, the 100m2 approx. new flats on some S Wroc estates seem to be getting reserved early, I assume either for large families or businesses.)
Just checked a more normal estate in a reasonable part of S Wroc.
Between mid 2012 and early last year, flats on the same estate (same street on the same estate too) dropped from 4990 per m2 to 4200 per m2 for very similar sizes (100m2). The upshot is that one could buy a 9m2 bigger flat a year later in the same good condition as the other one but for 10% less if the asking price was paid in both cases. Final selling prices are of course unknown (they are both sold).
Looking at smaller flats now on the same estate, it would seem prices have fallen about 5% in 10 months.
However, looking at flats coming to market now, asking prices often seem to be rising compared to existing stock.
Some weeks ago I mentioned a cheap house. It's still available, and in my view good value compared to most flats. The area it's in isn't the best but fair play to the seller because they have priced it to sell. There are a few more sellers doing that now, slowly getting real. Bit by bit.