Poland - Scotland, the untold story...

How many people here know that in the 17th century a Polish princess married a Scottish King in exile?
A little clue...
On the death of his father he was declared 'James III' and recognised as such by Louis XIV of France. He married a Polish Princess, Maria Clementina Sobieski on 3 Sept, 1719, by whom he had issue. Three failed Jacobite uprisings were lead in his name, in 1715, 1719 and 1745, James died in Rome on 1 January, 1766 and was buried within St.Peter's Basilica, the Vatican.

All I know is that in eastern Poland you can still find people, who are look and behave like Scotts.

It was from this Polish Princess that the Jacobite rebellion started. Her son, from what i can remember is Bonnie Prince Charlie...

They are frugal, not cheap ;) and shut up!!!


What was her name?

I said before, Maria Clementina Sobieski.

Oh, you edited. She was a granddaughter of king Jan III Sobieski. Yeah, those European aristocrats were marring each other so they are all connected in some way to this day.

Whose middle names were Casimir and Silvester.

Nothing new to me ;)

They almost got the french to invade Britain!!!


/wiki/Charles_Edward_Stuart


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobite_rising_of_1745
Maria Clementina Sobieska

/wiki/Maria_Clementina_Sobieska

Point is, when the Scottish army reached Dover Castle, they never needed the French.

The brits feared for their lifes!!


Seems like this Charles was a little William Wallace of his own ;)

Braveheart for the win!!!!!

Alexander 2nd was true King of Scots.

The daughter of great Jan Sobiseki, Saviour of Vienna in 1688, common knowledge.

The granddaughter.


1683

Thats right he was the grandson of James 11, who was deposed by William of Orange after he invaded England with the help of some English traitors.

My mistake

I am blushing now right now, I meant to say granddaughter, however i have no excuses for the date):

And aided by a few Scots as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Mackay

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe

Many scots came to Poland and fought on behalf, you will this in the records in Gdansk and Krakow.

i see Scotland as part of new Polish Commonwealth

all Celts with Poles!

Yes I know, exactly how significant is it? Not much...

The Scots had over 12 self-governing 'brotherhoods' in different cities in Poland during 17th century. Established by order of James VI (II of England). Warsaw had a 3 times mayor called Alexander Chalmers (czarmerz) from Aberdeen (I think).

Sounds interesting - any links ?

I have read about Czarmerz.

The Alexander Chalmers from Aberdeen was a writer and published novels, I do not think it is the same one that died in Poland was was buried at St Johns,here is a link

homepage.ntlworld.com/josephd.ross/index.html]

Yea you can find everything in here :)

homepage.ntlworld.com/josephd.ross/index.html

In the second half of the sixteenth and in the seventeenth century many Scots entered military service in Poland, as mercenaries. Indeed there was scarcely a country in Europe which did not have Scots in its army. There is some information on the number of Scottish immigrants in Poland, in the accounts of Scottish travelers in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. The most important, and probably most impartial, is the relation of William Lithgow, from Lanarkshire, who for nineteen years travelled in distant countries and stayed for some time in Poland, at the beginning of the seventeenth century.

In his memoir, often reprinted, he writes as follows:

Being arrived in Krakow ... the capital city of Poland I met with diverse Scottish merchants, who were wonderful glad of mine arrival there, especially the two brothers Dicksons, men of singular note of honesty and wealth.... Here (at Lublin) I found abundance of gallant, rich merchants, my countrymen, who were all very kind to me and so were they by the way in every place where I came, the conclusion being ever sealed with deep droughts, and God be with you. Then he calls Poland 'populous of strangers' and continues: And for auspiciousness, I may rather term it to be a mother and nurse for the youth and young lings of Scotland who are yearly sent hither in great numbers, than a proper Dame for her own birth; in clothing, feeding, and enriching them with the fatness of her best things; besides thirty thousand Scots families, that live incorporate in her bowels. And certainly Poland may be termed in this kind to be the mother of our Commons and the first commencement of all our best merchants' wealth, or at least most part of them.

I read the article earlier today, I thought it was very interesting how some of the Scottish names evolved into Polish names. for example lawson to Lason.

electricscotland.com/history/poland/scotsndx.htm

(the other books on Scots in Germany and Prussia also have info about Scots in Poland)


You might well be right. I seem to recall reading he was from Aberdeen(shire) or I might just be mixing it up with the fact a lot of Scots came from Aberdeen to Poland.

Here's a couple of links which might be of interest.

news.scotsman.com/scotland/Scotland39s-Poles-split-over-plan.4840614.jp
facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=1636105&id=717608495&ref=fbx_album
electricscotland.com/history/poland/appendix2.htm
sikorskipolishclub.org.uk/connections.htm
warsaw-life.com/news/news/1228-Warsaw's_Scottish_Mayor_Remembered
bpcc.org.pl/en/images/stories/file/contact_86_OnLine.pdf

I went through them briefly and read your article. How good is your Polish Trevek?

Cheers for those links- and yes, I'm another one in a long line of Aberdonians who came here :)

Yeah, their influence is acutely felt in Kraków and Poznań. We taught them their ways :)

I sense Seanus pride

You been drinking Polish Wódka? ;)

me too, so i guess times don't change that much! :)