Lwów, Wilno ... kresy - Poland have lost enormoust part of our heritage...

It means that I'm not really interested in explaining that phenomena on PF! On the other hand you as an Ukrainian evenplastic one could use this knowledge but you are being in denial and all - Why shouldIbother ?

Your sarcasm isn't amusing to anyone, we're seeing Ukrainian expertise on road building for Euro 2012. Way to go. The worst country roads in Poland don't look like main roads to Kiev.

Not in the world of course, to be precise,the first use of rockets as an artillery weapon in Europe is a polish achievement.

The only time rockets were used as weapons in Europe prior to that was by the Mongols.


So Nathan you deny that Poles built the following in Lwów?

Entire downton, all bridges, all major hospitals, all major post offices, all train stations, the town hall, sewage system, 90% of all churches, 2/3rds of all cemetaries, the power grid that Ukraine was using untill recently?:)))

More than 2/3rds of all buildings in Lwów are polish built, more than 90% of all pre-1939 buildings are polish built, the remainder is generally Hapsburg.

I know roads suck. The rockets you used from Portuguese done quite a damage ;) Nevertheless, a lot is being done right now to improve them. So, don't worry it will OK by 2012.


Can you explain that macabre? ;) And also how Portuguese get to Poland with rockets?


Poles didn't built Lviv. There is nothing to deny. Power grid? ;) What is that? I know that Poles burnt 90% of Ukrainian churches and libraries. Train stations and hospitals were constructed under Hapsburg empire and for its money which Ukrainian and Polish taxpayers provided for the state.

Sure they didn't they just invaded powerful and peaceful Ukrainian nation, which was famous even before 333BC when they kicked ass of Alexander of Macedonia!

After short spell of Polish occupation, by the power of cultural achievements Ukrainians kicked out Poles. After that Ukraine become the world power under the name of USSR !

Shoot ! I could become a famous and cherish historian if I declared myself an Ukrainian !:P

Where have I said that or that we are anyhow more culturally developed than any other nation?


Well, if you already made your name in Poland by claiming Kopernickus and Mickiewickus as Polish, then yes, try it. Anyhow, they won't grant you this ever - you are too funny :)

They did not, Jakub Moroski (though i might have mixed up the name) the polish ambassador to Portugal brought with him portugese engineers who passed their knowledge to their polish counterparts in Kraków.


Yes i can, Mongols used chinese rockets (they did conquer quite a bit of China) from what we know they used a primivite firecracker like rocket that caused more noise than actuall harm.


So you're saying we did not build 90% of Lwóws historical and utility sites?

So, what Portuguese engineers were doing with that knowledge? Just kept it and never produced a rocket to fire waiting for Polish ambassador? ;) Or you would say that the Portuguese are not Europeans? What year Polish used their first rocket, which was before the rest of Europe did?


If you mean Lviv, this is exactly what I said.

They were Ukrainians in disguise !


In 996 only ten years after Ukrainians military as the first in the world used rockets on the battlefield!

Ukrainian engineers:



and T-short for you :

Just think of Lwow as an "AMBASSADOR" of Polish culture and heritage on a special mission to the entire former USSR, and now Ukraine, spreading the richness of Polish culture...

I was born and grew up in Lwow in a family with strong anti-Soviet sentiments... I certainly used to feel that Lwow was on the wrong side of the border... But now, as a former citizen of Lwow under the USSR regime, and as an American (for almost 30 years), I really see Lwow as a sort of "Good Willl Ambassador of Poland" in Eastern Europe, serving as a cultural bridge between Poland and many cultures of the former USSR.

Nothing, rockets werent exactly accurate at the time which is why Poland dropped them after about two decades of use as well.


Never produced a combat rocket, they did produce firecrackers for celebrations.


At Orsza, i'd have to check out exactly but XV century.


Ok Nathan who built Lwóws main railway station and town hall then? :)))) Your "ukrainian" city has a polish built town centre, polish built university, polish built college, polish built opera house, polish built main library, polish built catedral!

C'mon Nathan if its an ukrainian city why is everything in Lwów built by Poles?

If you sitting on a horse, some loud and unexpected noise may do quite a lot of real harm. ;)

How is this different from using them as firecrackers? Simply you used them in the field and Portuguese - in the cities. 20 years? ;) Haha. You see, Polish realized they can't scare enemies by firecrackers. I just wonder why it took so much time? ;)


Be kind to check it exactly. You are an expert of military stuff, so it would be nice to know for sure when you argue about this grand Polish achievement of using firecrackers in the field.


Lviv train station was founded in 1861
Lviv train station facade and main structure was built between 1899-1904
Lviv Opera House opened in 1900, built in Austria and brought over piece-wise.
Lviv University of Ivan Franko was stipulated as one of the conditions of the Hadiach Treaty and was to be Ukrainian.
Lviv from 1772 till 1918 was part of Austrian-Hungarian empire and during this period appeared this architecture. Poland as such haven't existed at that time.
Latin Cathedral is still in Lviv and is one of my favorite anal structures. As you might notice it was never burnt by Ukrainians as compared to hundreds of churches Polish invaders destroyed in Ukraine and so many important historical monuments disappeared forever.

My point is that destruction is your main achievement here. You succeded.

yeah demolition guys thats us, you can always depend on us !

my point is when there appeared Ukrainian buildings when there was no Ukraine, no before 1990?eh ? smart pants ?

Motorways in Ukraine, 193 km (120 mi) (2010) but they did start building them like you said, that's good. Belarus has roads that Poland can still dream of, like this one.

By Poles and it was built in the interwar period not in 1861.


Again by Poles.


Rubbish, it was built by Gorgolewski on site.


But was built by Poles.


However almost all projects were still undertaken by ethnic Poles and all mayors of Lwów at the time have been polish which shows that even under Austrian occupation Lwów remained polish:)


It was never built by Ukrainians either, it was built by Poles.

Tell me Nathan how many bridges did Ukrainians built in Lwów :)))

You can say whatever you want and dream of things, but the truth remains: Poles didn't do a thing in Lviv:)


Open at least a book, małpko.


Nice road. I am happy for Belorus.


It is still nothing. Corruption eats away many steps we could have done forward long ago. But it is a process of evolution and it has to be lived through.

Ah yes ! Silly me, the world famous book, must know for any literate entity on the Planet!
by Bohdan Makarenko"The 10 000 year of continuous existence of the Ukrainian Empire" !
Sorry, Nat obciagaczu :) my mistake:)

Nathan our architects built every single bridge in Lwów, we built cobblestone streets that you use today, you can deny all you want but every single historical site in Lwów except for exactly six buildings have been built or commisioned by Poles.

Lwów is a city built by Poles:))

So Nathan tell me which bridges did Ukrainians built in Lwów? Why did it take Poles to build a university? Why were all the schools run by polish teachers?

We have one underground river called Poltwa, so it has no bridges over it ;) But if you mean the ones over the dry land, I guess most of them were built by Ukrainians, unless Poles managed in the interbellum to build something while burning libraries and churches.


Any link to your phantasy? ;) Somehow, I can't find it in any language.


Thanks, you were good boys. You see, Sokrates, when you serve properly I respect that. Yes, a few cobblestone streets built during Austro-Hungary were uncovered recently from Communist epoch's asphalt and it looks beautiful. I like when a horse knocks with its hooves on the cobblestone, it reminds me of your servitude, Sokrates, and I have a warm feeling towards you, thing so rare in my heart. You should be grateful for that.


What university? Lviv has 10 universities. Anyhow, none of them was built by Poles.


In the interbellum that was the case, which meant that sooner or later you have to be kicked out. The justice was served and now there are lectures in Ukrainian, English and either French or German if I am not mistaken. Feels great. Hope to see you in Lviv in 2012.

Lwów has 1 university Nathan and it was founded by Poland and to be specific by our king John Casimir in 1661.

You can continue outright denial Nathan but together with Russians we've built a country that you live in today and make up some silly grand history to make your young nation feel better.

No, Lviv has 10 universities, Sokrates:

Ivan Franko National University of Lviv (ukr. Львівський національний університет імені Івана Франка)
Lviv Polytechnic (ukr. Національний університет "Львівська політехніка")
Danylo Halytsky Lviv National Medical University (ukr. Львiвський національний медичний унiверситет iм. Данила Галицького)
Lviv Stepan Gzhytsky national university of veterinary medicine and biotechnologies (ukr. Львівський національний університет ветеринарної медицини та біотехнологій імені Степана Гжицького)
National Forestry Engineering University of Ukraine (ukr. Український національний лісотехнічний університет)
Ukrainian Catholic University (ukr. Український католицький університет)
Lviv National Agrarian University (ukr. Львівський національний аграрний університет)
Lviv State University of Physical Training (ukr. Львівський державний університет фізичної культури)
Lviv State University of Vital Activity Safety (ukr. Львівський державний університет безпеки життєдіяльності)
Lviv State University of Internal Affairs (ukr. Львівський державний університет внутрішніх справ)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv

Yeah, and had 241 universities but Poles destroyed them all except those 10 !

Nathan this is pathetic we both know what you mentioned here are not universities, do you have so little to come to the table with that you make sh*t up?

The University was founded on January 20, 1661 by the King John II Casimir of Poland .


1851 The number of students at the Technical Academy was 220, out of which 98 were Polish, 50 Jewish, 48 German, 19 Ukrainian/Ruthenian, 4 Czech and 2 Hungarian. In the same year, professor Wawrzyniec Zmurko (graduate of the Vienna Polytechnic) became director of the Department of Mathematics, as the first Pole in the history of the school. Zmurko is considered as founder of the Lemberg School of Mathematics.

1870 : A Decree of Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria established Polish as the official language of the school. Most professors not proficient in Polish left the Polytechnic.

November 15, 1877 : Inauguration of the new Rector - Professor of architecture Julian Zachariewicz. On the same day, consecration of newly-constructed school's building took place, carried out by three Lvov's Archbishops - Roman Catholic, Greek-Catholic and Armenian-Catholic and witnessed by Governor of Galicia, Alfred Potocki.

Polish enough?


That's an facultie of the Original Lvov University...

Actually most of them are ;)


I hope you enjoy the city. Remember that evey time you visit Lwow you visit polish pride.

No matter how much you try to manipulate your history the truth always finds its way ;)

Forced polonization of the ukrainian schools by the Austrians during the partitions???

What a Kuddelmuddel....

Pure asslicking ;)

Smart move though to keep the Poles in the austrian parlament happy.

You better be quiet about partitions, your Prussia should be flogged at last one more time !

Come...let it rest...it's history now...

90% of teachers and students were polish


All of them are faculties of the same uni but for Nathan those are all universities :)))