The origin of the design has often been purported as being medieval. Historic tradition states it to be the arms of Stephen Držislav in the 10th century...1000 years old Croatian chechboard,nothing Nazi here.
Phrase ''Za dom spremni'' that Ustashe did use,was in fact old medieval Croatian warcry that every Croat soldier say-For Homeland-Ready!(to die) That's in heart of every Croat soldier,so we will continue to talk like that,no matter of did Ustashi used it or not.
I said we're not proud of that part of our history,but again not all Croatia followed Nazis,we started resistance first in Europe with Tito-CROAT.
Oh yeaah,I'm not so small as you think kleiner,I could kick your ass anytime
,but again not all Croatia followed Nazis,we started resistance first in Europe with Tito-CROAT.
you were even too lazy or still in the fascho mindset that you use still the ustasha/fascho flag. blacky, it was some kind of advent present from me to you. you like it? i guess you do, still this ustasha runs in your family...
frohes weihnachtsfest. :)
@harry
maybe this time you managed somehow to stay calm, without any rants which are the usual tool in your comments, but pls do me the favor and search for your 'traditional rant' towards serbs.
pls dont play now the 'good guy'. thats like you want to make us believe in santa. :)
Rubbish, "they" just went there and bought the slaves that one tribe had taken from another,as they had done for centuries and as they continue to do to this day.
Sorry but while true, that's only part of the story. You might have forgotten that the transatlantic slave trade went hand in hand with the colonization of Africa, the portuguese for example went in there at once and started conquering and conducting slave raids which were not peaceful. They would conquer islands and tribes and enslave the conquered. Also the slavery that existed before the transatlantic slave trade was more like indentured servitude, since many slaves were paid and could buy their own freedom and assimilate in the society or return home, unlike the trade to the americas where slaves would never return home and were shipped en masse like cattle to societies where there was little chance of them ever becoming free.
I never said it was a good thing, I was just pointing out that it wasnt so Black and White,so to speak ;) You know who the Black slave's tended to learn English from in the early days? Scottish indentured slaves serving 10 years in a country where your life expectency was less than 3 years.......
The Holocaust is pretty much like the Indian Statue called Manjushri which has between 4 to 7 heads. It was based on myth, rumour, jealousy, hidden motives like robbery and plunder, property theft and misguided religious beliefs.
If we can agree that Jesus did not exist, that God does not exist, and the Catholic Church peddled a lot of untruths, riddles and a great deal of wishful, inaccurate thinking then we are getting close to solving the ancient historical reasons of why it occurred. We then need to jump forward a 1000 years up to 1880 with the assassination of the TSAR, then jump to 1918 when WW1 finished with the defeat of Germany, then jump to 1933 when H The Madman was elected in Germany.
Who was H, first he was a tramp, a doss house boarder, a man who carried suitcases for passenger tips in the main Vienna railway station, who wanted to be an architect, who drew cards which he tried selling to Jews - who refused to buy them so made [for them] an racist enemy. He was a German motor bike dispatch rider who delivered messages in the WW1 trenches. He was laughed at, and at night liked to watch homosexual German soldiers masturbating each other in tents and in woods. For this reason he was never PROMOTED, his commanding officers thought he was strange and how true that assessment was. He did earn 2 Iron Crosses for his dispatch riding work which is to his credit. He was a liar, a schemer, a dreamer, and a fool, and a killer just like any other killer, He read a great deal, he read about the Rothschilds and how suceesful they were and this 'turned his brains', he conjured up inside his head three slogans: Germany For the Germans, Germany Land for German People, German money goes to German subjects. If he had looked around German WAR Cemetaries its almost certain he ignored Jewish Graves or honoured Jewish / German War dead.
Being paranoid and a pyschopath common-sense was subservient to hate, to myth, to rumour, to kindness, and he was totally lost with Codes of Honour, the Officer Class, or Common Law subjects, suffice to say the end justified the means, and the Germans voted into office a killer, a fare dodger, a thief and an imposter and rogue, and he got away with it until 1944. By 1942 the Germans knew the war was lost, by 1944 he knew the war was lost, and his suicide was always on the cards. A Jew murdered in Auchwitz possessed more common sense and reasonableness than him, except he had a gun, and the Jewish POW did not. I call him H to show my disgust at the mention of his name. He killed maybe 15 million people all of whom were better than him, and more valuable. He also murdered maybe 2-3 million children or teenagers for which none of us should ever forgive him for.
Merged: FBI Director James B. Comey Blames Poland for The Holocaust
In an April 2015 opinion piece for the Washington Post newspaper, the current FBI Director James B. Comey wrote at length as to why he "requires" his agents and analysts to visit the largely American taxpayer funded United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC.
He does it he claims so that they can learn a lesson about how "Good people helped murder millions. And that's the most frightening lesson of all.."
He then expounds on this saying:
"In their minds, the murderers and accomplices of Germany, and Poland, and Hungary, and so many, many other places didn't do something evil. They convinced themselves it was the right thing to do, the thing they had to do. That's what people do. And that should truly frighten us."
How on earth can this dunce run a federal law enforcement agency which supposedly builds cases based on obtaining evidence and facts when he is so completely ignorant about relatively recent history? He clearly doesn't know that Nazi Germany decimated and totally occupied Poland for the entire duration of World War II. He has no business lecturing anyone about The Holocaust when he doesn't even know that it was ethnic Poles who were victims of this crime and not perpetrators as he so idiotically believes.
And Comey's outrageous slander against Poland comes only three years after his current boss Barack Hussein Obama made his own ignorant and false remark about "Polish Death Camps." And self-important Obama never sincerely apologized to Polish people for his stupidity but rather issued a terse written statement whereby he merely expressed "regret" for his choice of words.
When will this American administration stop already with its unfounded and unjustified defamation of Poland?!
He should've said "...the accomplices of Germany in Poland, Hungary, and so many, many other places..."
Fact is that the Nazis had plenty of willing helpers all over Europe (not too many in Poland). After the war everybody had been in the resistance, of course...
Which other genocides can one compare? Armenian? "Serbian"? (Why I put " is becaouse the Serbian units didn't shot only or mostly men as I saw it at an documentary can't remember the name of the documentary tho probably on the internet somewhere).
Genocide of the indian culture in America perhaps allmost gone from excistance
Some Poles did take part in the holocaust. Denying history is no way of making sure that the mistakes made in the past are not made again in the future.
Are Eastern European countries being discriminated against? After all France is hardly ever mentioned in the context of the Holocausts. Instead Poland is being mentioned guide a bit.
Harry he clearly isn't talking about few individuals, either you are missing the point completely or by the token of your logic you are taking part in slandering Poland.
He should've said "...the accomplices of Germany in Poland, Hungary, and so many, many other places..."
Comey's choice of words were deliberate. That oaf consciously placed Poland's name in his litany of blame. Where as Hungary as a country was a member of the Axis powers actively collaborating with Nazi Germany, Poland most certainly was not!
And don't forget that since Washington DC is a metaphorical shark tank, words and gestures are carefully considered and often calculated. Indeed, this is why when career politicians and career bureaucrats give speeches and write opinion pieces they have their comments reviewed well beforehand by several of their underlings; not only for spelling and grammatical errors but factual accuracy. Comey got it absolutely wrong and still went ahead and published what he truly believes. And what is truly frighting for us all is that a man in his position and the goofs he has surrounded himself with have foolishly convinced themselves that they are correct in blaming Poland for a crime she never committed rather than recognizing her as the true victim of The Holocaust both during the tragedy and ever since.
The MFA needs to call the American ambassador onto the carpet for a harsh dressing down over this affront to Poland. Heck, it wouldn't be remiss to have the American ambassador expelled over this offense until the dope Comey issues a correction and groveling apology to Poland along with his resignation.
Some Poles did take part in the holocaust. Denying history is no way of making sure that the mistakes made in the past are not made again in the future.
Then name them today. Name each and everyone of them. And by all means share links showing their confessions. You can even include post war media interviews given by them regarding their participation as well as interviews given by their ashamed neighbors, co-workers, parish priests, extended relatives and descendants.
Oh, and any typical twisting of history on your part to categorizes Jewish Ghetto Police and Jewish Kapos as Poles won't count.
Are Eastern European countries being discriminated against? After all France is hardly ever mentioned in the context of the Holocausts. Instead Poland is being mentioned guide a bit.
I'm not aware of which Nazi death camps were in France. Could you perhaps go into detail about them? As far as I'm aware, all of the Nazi death camps were located in what is now Poland. Perhaps that is why Poland draws so much attention when it comes to remembering the holocaust?
There were also far fewer Jewish people there. 3,000,000 Poles were Jewish and Poland is situated close to other large Jewish populations and due to the pre-1918 partitions had excellent railway links therefore it made sense for the nazis to perpetrate their crimes there.
The MFA needs to call the American ambassador onto the carpet for a harsh dressing down over this affront to Poland. Heck, it wouldn't be remiss to have the American ambassador expelled over this offense until the dope Comey issues a correction and groveling apology to Poland along with his resignation.
In the adult world civilised nations try not to throw their toys out of the pram every time somebody says something less than delicately and reminds people of a historical fact that they would prefer to forget and much prefer other people to never know about.
That's one of the things I really don't understand about these Polonia (and let's be honest here, it's more likely to be Polonia than Poles), they constantly claim that not a single Pole took part in the holocaust: don't they know how utterly laughable that claim is? Even people who have no interest at all in history but have seen, for example, The Pianist know the truth! Why not respond with the truth? Something along the lines of 'The Polish government never co-operated in any way with the Nazis.' or 'The Polish underground state executed Poles who murdered Jews during WWII.' Those statements are both completely true but still speak up for Poland.
Fortunately for those of us who choose to live, work and pay our taxes in Poland, there's no chance of Ambassador Mull's time being wasted by such pointless action.
@Jon: in Alsace, most prisoners were Alsacians and not Jews. There were very few Jews living in that area.... If you know the history of that area you'll know that Alsacians although considered like Germans by most French generally hate Germans. Alsacians were forced into German army (the "malgré nous") and those not complying with German law were sent to camps (or killed) - just like anywhere else since Germans were not so ... delicate with local populations ....
The single camp in France can't be compared in any way to the Aktion Reinhardt camps in Poland or the Auschwitz network of camps. The death camps in what is now Poland were purely murder factories and more evil than anything else the world has ever seen.
What with the present hundredth "anniversary" commemorations of the Turkish massacre of the Armenian community, kindly remember the disturbing threat by Hitler himself when warned that his plans for the Jewish genocide would not be possible:
"Who remembers Armenia"? was said to be his glib reply to those critics within his own ranks.
In fact, the Schoah is generally considered by both Jewish as well as German gentile historians to be a watershed event, unique in its barbarity throughout the annals of recorded man. "Unique" is a dangerous word to use. ALL individual as well as collective suffering is always unique to those who've experienced it. The Nazi Holocaust however had the sole distinction of being the most methodically documented, carried out with nearly the complete support of the German population and with EVERY means necessary by the Nazi government apparatus to expedite the focused killing of a single ethnic group within the Reich as efficiently as possible with no economic expense spared.
For the sheer enormity of the crime, the Holocaust regrettable still stands alone!
As far as I'm aware, all of the Nazi death camps were located in what is now Poland.
Perhaps instead of taking part in the slandering of Poland you could somehow raise your awareness of those historical issues you seemingly claim to be unaware of and yet such a dim awareness of the subject debated didn't stop you from partaking in the aforementioned discussion.
claim that not a single Pole took part in the holocaust
What it has to do with slander? Would you conveniently claim unawareness of what has been said?
As for anyone slandering PL, it's a historical fact that the Nazis chose to locate their death camps there. No slander on anyone and a simple historical fact - Poland didn't have any choice in the matter.
Brunesis, you seem to have missed my point! Noone here is trying either to relativize or "grade" degrees of suffering and death.
The mass murders committed by Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot or Idi Amin, were essentially the wanton state-sponsored killings on a whim, whereas e.g. in Mao's case the slaughter of his own ethinic Chinese with whom he happened to disagree on purely idealogical grounds. Pol Pot slaughtered indiscriminantly and capriciously which was what made him so feared.
The German Holocaust was conversely based solely on BIO-idealogical hatred; Hitler honestly believed that the Jew belonged to a different species of humanity and was therefore dangerous as it somehow threatened to usurp the rightful place of the German "Volk" (translation: racially pure nation/state). The Jew therefore had to exponged from Germany's midst as he represented the so-to-speak greatest threat to humanity and that he was to boot an "enemy of the state", already a foregone conclusion long before the first gas chambers were even built!
If Jews in Stalinist Russia, Chinese in Mao's China or even fellow Cambodians under Pol Pot's regime did their level best to curry favor by groveling to their "superiors", they too could live, albeit in a permanently degraded state of being. No such choice was left the Jews under Hitler; extermination was to be total, complete with NO margin for error.
In the adult world civilised nations try not to throw their toys out of the pram every time somebody says something less than delicately and reminds people of a historical fact that they would prefer to forget and much prefer other people to never know about.
Twice now the Obama administration has besmirched Poland in public by falsely portraying her as a guilty party to The Holocaust. Again, when Obama was told his own "Polish Death Camps" remark was completely wrong he never apologized.
What you fail to understand is that when dealing with conceited personalities like Obama and his appointee Comey the only way to burst their bubble and wake them up to reality is to use strong words and firm actions that will leave them in no doubt about how terribly mistaken they are regarding Poland.
they constantly claim that not a single Pole took part in the holocaust: don't they know how utterly laughable that claim is?
Then start naming these guilty Poles like you were told to do. What's utterly laughable is your inability to do so. Surely these Polish somebodies you are accusing of committing genocide have a first and last name. So provide them. Right here on PF today. Give details too about their life in Poland and their motivation for helping Nazi Germany carryout The Holocaust after it had just crushed Poland and killed millions of other Poles in the process. Then explain why these unnamed Poles (who are still guilty nonetheless as far as you are concerned) were never formally prosecuted for their crimes against humanity.
Even people who have no interest at all in history but have seen, for example, The Pianist know the truth! Why not respond with the truth?
The truth is The Pianist was a sleepy film directed by a convicted pedophile fugitive who unsurprisingly gave a highly selective account of events in Poland during World War II. It's just another agenda driven Hollywood spin piece which pedestalizes the Jewish narrative regarding Nazi Germany's occupation of Poland while completely ignoring the destruction, suffering and death experienced by millions and millions of ethnic Poles.
'The Polish underground state executed Poles who murdered Jews during WWII.'
Provide the full names of the Poles the Underground State executed on charges of murdering Jews during World War II.
Perhaps instead of taking part in the slandering of Poland
Would you care to quote me in any way slandering Poland? Or is that just yet another of the things that exists only in your head?
you could somehow raise your awareness of those historical issues you seemingly claim to be unaware of
The reason that I'm unaware of any Nazi death camps in France is that there were never any there. All of the death camps and concentration camps with a death camp element were located in what is now Poland.
As for anyone slandering PL, it's a historical fact that the Nazis chose to locate their death camps there.
Not quite true: Auschwitz was located in what the Nazis said was Germany (hence the point of Stephen Fry's comment about Auschwitz which so many Polonia completely failed to understand).
