Give Poland back it's lost land !

no I'm not a muslim and I thouroughly despise Islam which is even more toxic to true spirituality than christianity - the teaching I follow can be found here askrealjesus.com and the affiliated websites

as for politics i support the current Polish government but not blindly so - though in the current Polish political scene there is nothing better

the current Polish government can't be classified in terms of the opposition leftists vs conservatives - as they are socially minded but still conservative (no state promotion of in-vitro, no gay marriages, and against free access to abortion) - I share these views with them - I support free market but believe state should have an eye on it at least not allowing laws to be passed giving existing companies near monopolies

London was build and founded by the Romans, So what? The same goes for Wilno, It doesn't mean some Leuitava 1000 years later hold God's given rights to it.

Anyhow historically during the tribal times Trakai was 'a capital.' At the time Wilno was some castles or fort. Only union with Poland and Polish settlers made Wilno into a mayor city and later a capital of the Dutchy. You seems to have it wrong.

Country that call itself Lithuania has no rights whatsoever to Wilno because they are not heirs of the Grand duchy of Lithuania nor Commonwealth. Trying to claim a land and a city with people who didn't share their views it was just an aggression, it was an attempt on conquest.


Go and waste your time somewhere else nutter, you got depression, bet you're familiar with pot and other stuff. leave the talking to people without such major mental disorders. I don't butt into your lame epistolography on this forum, talking BS about you. Have some manners if you lack common sense,


For example restitution of the land. School system, minority rights under EU directives. All that is sabotaged by that funny state called who knows why - Lithuania.

Ah, talking about Putin - who sitting in his pocket? Getting money from him via some Russian state company - Grybauskaitė.

I see that you are just a delusioned polish chauwinist, and a total hypocrite, discussing with you is truly a waste of time. And your lack of basic manners... Good luck to you sir, and I hope we never speak again.

noone sane in Poland wants Vilnius back - there is a bunch of nationalist who do - but I would hesitate to call them rational

You should stand in front of the mirror and take a good look at yourself. You had a chance to learn something or at the very least have your knowledge and convictions challenged/

Instead you choose to run away like a mingy coward. A Good riddance.

So what do you want to do about it? Invade?

yeah - gather a bunch of football hooligans and go on a conquest spree on the eastern side of the border - the guys know how to wield a baseball bat :P

No, I want for them to have reality check and to behave. Poland could use a friendly neighbor that doesn't discriminate against their Polish minority and realise that the best investment into their own independence and the very existence of their country is to have a good relations with Poland.

So far they are acting as if they were some regional power or whatnot with Poland as their enemy. So dumb.


dude they don't even have air forces and their reserves or manpower is just pitifully low. Poland could take on them anytime and win.

That`s madness. How can a NATO member attack another member? Please, come to your senses, your arguments are ridiculous, don`t let emotions carry you beyond all limits.

That's what happens when anger overpowers reason and when one lives in a time warp and on a different planet. Your reaction is fully justified.

Now, you can give credit me for clarity and no weasel words.

Why Poland does need to recover its former lands when ethnic Polish population is in decline? A nations have reasons to expand their borders when their population is on the rise. To get territories populated by Ukrainians and Belarussians and be happy? Maybe its better just to create Europe with no borders?

She doesn't.

We still have enough underdeveloped and poor regions in Poland to even consider incorporating backwards eastern lands, with huge national minorities living on them. A recipe for disaster.

No political party (no matter how marginal and insignificant) even brings up the topic nowadays. It's a non-issue.

Ok, I give credit you for no clarity and weasel words.
Which flag should I salute now? :):)

Nowdays - obviously no. However there could be an interesting question about the distant future. Which European countries may recombine or form a confederacy. For example, I wouldn't be wondered to see Germany and Austria joining in the same state or forming a confederacy someday. The same thing may happen to some Slavic countries as well. Shell we move towards the World without the borders or what?

Right after we make doors, walls, locks, and individual bank accounts illegal.

Intermarium is a nice idea for a Central European Federation...

• 
  Intermarium.jpg
  

Federations are the future...especially for the smaller countries. There just is no other way to keep up with the building super blocs. That's a geo-strategical phenomenon developing in the next decades.

A if not THE main challenge for our politicos and elites.

Correct.

Unfortunately the EU doesn't seem to do much to counter such tendencies. On the contrary, there are attempts at creating blocks within the EU (Core EU, Germany-France alliance, "Two Speeds Europe" etc. etc.), so it looks like smaller blocks of countries are indeed the future of our continent with EU remaining something of a loose symbol, like The African Union.

The EU is already such a federation. She puts us Europeans in a prime position compared to most other regions. To throw this all away would be madness!

To break up the EU to build something of an Intermarium is one step back, an unnecessary step back. Instead I would prefer the V4 or V6 or Vx INSIDE the EU.

Also a two speed - Europe could help. It will still need a long time to synchronize all european countries and to put them on the same levels, economically and politically. There must be found ways to handle that in the meantime without having to break it all up. A two- or three speed Europe could help.

Not several federations inside Europe should be pitted against each other but the EU should be our super bloc to give us a fighting chance against the upcoming blocs from other world regions.

That doesn't mean that will all work only when we become "one", that will most probably never happen. It won't be even necessary. No super bloc of the future will be totally homogeneous! No matter the region, to many people will be involved.

Hmm... perhaps you're right, BB. V4 plus the Baltics, Croatia, Slovenia, Romania and Bulgaria could form one such block within the EU. Intermarium without Ukraine and Belarus should work well too.

Better we hash it out in Brussels, hacking at each other over tables, as going up against each other economically or even militarily again...that way are only losers!

And the bigger the voice the VX have in Brussels the less reason to moan and groan about "them" in Brussels and "these Germanazis" again...and the more ways to make the EU also "theirs"!

...then there is still the dire need of an EU footie team!!! :)

PS: I'm not sure about the Baltics and Croatia as part of any VX though...

Exactly. :)

Having the EU footie team would be rather harsh on the rest of the world. I can't see any team in the world capable of offering any sort of resistance to such joint team.

P.S. Why the doubts regarding Croats and Balts?

We would soooo rule!!!! :):):)


Where is the historical connection to an Intermarium? I see them rather in a nothern federation (Baltics) or a central federation (Croatia)...

For Central...you have to make place for Germany somewhere...we are so central too! :)

You couldn't be more central if you tried! :) Remember our old Central Euopean Empire plans? LOL

How could I forget! I tell you...one time in the future!!! :)

Mitteleuropa? (Jestem za, a nawet przeciw!)

Torq writes:
Hmm... perhaps you're right, BB. V4 plus the Baltics, Croatia, Slovenia, Romania and Bulgaria could form one such block


Don't worry. Soon Ukrainians and Belarussians will extinct and due to demographic tendencies you will border other nations to the East and have millions of them inside of Poland. But in difference from Ukrainians you will not be able to show even slightest dissatisfaction with them. And guess why?

youtube.com/watch?v=_FlBCJbb2oo&list=RD_FlBCJbb2oo&start_radio=1

Who's showing dissatisfacton with Ukrainians? They are generally honest and hard-working bunch, and integrate in Poland very well.

BB's point (and mine) was that neither Ukraine nor Belarus are EU members, and that might be a problem if they were to be included in the EU-Intermarium group.

Sorry if I understood you in a wrong way. To some extent I was joking. However it seems Ukrainians are often beaten severely in Poland nowdays (though I don't claim it characterizes attitude of majority toward them).

No problem. I don't think most people in Poland are in any way hostile towards Ukrainians--actually with such a huge number of them coming here in recent years, there have been surprisingly few incidents. For me personally, they are the best immigrants ever (culturally and linguistically similar, showing respect towards Poland, and willing to work hard).

By the way - according to this article...

nczas.com/2019/02/18/szokujace-wyniki-sondazu-wiecej-polakow-chcialoby-ukrainy-w-nato-niz-sami-ukraincy/

... Poles are more pro-Ukrainian than Ukrainians themselves! :)