Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish.

lol, nope, they are clearly polish, once your 2nd generation, its all over with, you cannot
claim any other bloodline other then the state you were born!! end of story.

( this is according to a retarded scott who was prob born in south America and
doesnt want us to know he is a peasent)

Yes, it's like native Americans. They identify themselves as Americans but have their own sovereign nation within the US. Same with Polish Americans. We are the Polish nation within America.

Amen.

And no one is denying they are American. But thats a Matter of citizenship.. the benefit of
being born here, you dont have to apply :)

Well in my example there was no Polish blood at all.
And others here have said that merely being born in Poland doesn't automatically come with citizenship the way it does over here.


Seems more an expression of pride in heritage than anything real.

For native Americans, it's real. They get money from the government and everything :)

PlasticPole


The experience of the Native Americans is totally different from Polish immigration. The Polish immigrants were highly successful integrating into American society (Native Americans, unsuccessful). They integrated seamlessly. America continues to have Polish immigration but over time they too will integrate and disappear. The Point being Polish America is America, it's not a separate enclave.

They integrate well. Everytime there's a war, the Native American warrior is right there fighting for the US so they are definitely a thread in the fabric that is America. Plus, they have their own nation, which is kinda cool. I think American Poles need our own nation, too.

PlasticPole


They have their own nation it's called ... Poland.

I was raised in Chicago when ethnicity was much more prominent than it is today. I went away to college (on my own dime btw) and I had to learn to integrate. It was either hold on to the values, culture of my immigrant great grand parents or...accept and integrate into American culture. I don't believe that there are two ways, you're either one or the other. If you try to be both (Polish and American) you end up being neither. You have to be true to yourself. Where is that?

so, if people are finding that being just American isnt enough, then that still isnt ok
get it straight, people are finding themselfs thru their history of family.

otherwise you dont know who you are. then you have people telling you to not be
who you are? WTF>>

so why call yourself a chicago pollock if your just American..

I smell a hypocrite

So what did the Polish Nation of America get when the US government officially recognised them?

:p

LOL

CP, come on.

You can be an American who is proud of his ancestry.

Goodness that's all you hear Americans talk about are their African, Jewish, Italian, Hispanic, Irish, etc heritage.

I agree with you that all Americans should be first proud of being an American first, like you and me. But as long as many Americans and the media keeps fueling this ethnic consciousness then it only makes sense that Americans of given ethnic backgrounds promote and defend their ancestry.

Have you ever been to Boston? There is a saying there that when you come off the plane, people (who know you were born in America and know you are American)will ask you, "Hey what are ya" "What are ya?". That's the mentality out there and there is just about nobody out there who considers himself to be an American period. Everything in this country is about hyphenated Americans. I wish it wasn't so but that's the way it is.

Have you ever watched that MTV show "The Jersey Shore"? All these kids are Americans who were born in America yet they refer to themselves as ITALIANS. Why is that? They never lived in Italy. They don't speak Italian.

Look in your backyard in Chicago.

You have 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th generation Irish Americans jumping up and down about how proud they are of being IRISH. Heck they even color the Chicago River GREEN on St. Patricks Day! And these are 4th & 5th generation Irish Americans!

4th, 5th generation Irish Americans COLORING THE CHICAGO RIVER GREEN

youtube.com/watch?v=OFXlPJ9hKrY

greenchicagoriver.com/pics.html

This is not considered to be too ethno-centric????

Even your mayor Daley of Chicago is very conscious and vocal about his Irish ancestry even though he is mayor of a prominent AMERICAN city and is far from being an Irish immigrant off the boat.

Patrycja19


Why wouldn't being American "be enough"?

Hypocrisy is a double sided coin. Is one hypocritical by living in the States but claiming to be Polish or some other nationality?

Yeah, you can learn who you are by studying your family history but it doesn't mean that I am them. I plan to go to Poland and see the towns where they came from but it will be their town, not mine.

you just said the same thing i said.. so do you have a point?

none of us CLAIM to be them.

we CLAIM our heritage, which so many think we dont have any rights.

I say KISS my left butt cheek.. I will do what I want, I live in America, I will
Learn about my family, anyone who doesnt like it can go kiss RONALDS golden
MCnuggetts !!!

its our choice, you have polish ancestors, so someone says to you , dude, you have
no business having polish ancestry when you are American, thats like telling a
african American, hey , i dont give a crap if your ancestors come from africa, you
have no business calling yourself african American. but they are born in America,
and are American, but they cannot claim African heritage ( that is funny as hell)
cause its obvious, they can trace their beginnings back to the beginning of time
when they began... and they dont need a paper trail..

It might be harder for POLISH, due the facts that every other country took over
and there might have been some other mixes in there, but same as we cant prove
all the way to the piast dynasty, it can neither be disproved.

so get the hell out of the way, cause the American Polish are on the rise and we
are one nation you need to back away from. you might be the next victim of a
large keilbasa that we wave around and smack people with.. ha hah haahaha

"...From the 16th to the 19th centuries, an estimated 12 million Africans were shipped as slaves to the Americas. (see Slavery in the Americas)[5][6] Of these, an estimated 645,000 were brought to what is now the United States.[7]..." from

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States


Not only in US&A. As I said, authentically is what u praise european, 'cause that's where they all came from. Surprise?


I am shivering. U really go back in time.


No thank u. Had mine when I was in US&A. Kind of amusing what I listened to.

i really agree with you dear,...

I think some are missing the individual angle. Ethnicity like religiosity, pizza-loving, being a Harley Davdison buff, opera lover, baseball freak, hiphop, golf or computer-game addict in the great American 'salad bowl' is a matter of personal choice. The extent to which a US-born American wishes to be Italian, Swedish, Polish, Vienamese or anything else is not legislated or imposed but freely chosen. (In some cases there may of course be family pressure to, for instance, 'marry a nice Jewish boy' or whatever). So indiviudal Americans of foreign stock can be anywhere from 0 to nearly 10 on a 0-10 scale in terms of ethnic identification and intensity. 10 would be rare, but some Hispaniscs come close to 8 or 9. PolAms would probably range from 0 to 5 or 6. This is just a guesstimate, of course. Imagine someone making a livelihood from the Polonian trade (butcher's, Polish deli, travel agency, PolAm newspaper, etc.), living in a Polish neighbourhood, attending a Polish church, belonging to the PNA or PRCUA and interacting almost exclusively with other PolAms as opposed someone named Bruce Kowalski living in suburbia and working for a big American corporotion who perhaps used to go to 'busia's' for Wigilia but she died 23 years ago.

The first would be more Polish, a lot would depend on language, without native or at least very fluent Polish they're not 'really' Polish to me...

On the other hand, I've met a few native (or semi-native) speakers of Polish who grew up in NAmerica and came to Poland to see the old country who didn't seem very Polish at all to me.

- at least one parent being Polish at the time of birth.


- just the same as with other nations, Poland being no exception.


- depends on the amount spilled :))

Polishness always starts with the heart. Every true Pole wears it there.
No matter where you live,your heart tells you who you are.
People entitled to call themselves Polish are those who have Polish blood,it means Polish ancestors.Nobody can deny somebody's parentage.
Polish descent makes Polish nation, provided that the people have the will to be Polish.

Yes, I completely agree. Anyone who can trace solely Polish blood to 966 is clearly Polish.

Good good I go for that!


I think more, the ones who shed blood for Poland has the right to call himself/herself Polish.
And has a Polish soul, no matter if you talk Polish or not, it's your actions that count!!!
If ones feel Polish one is Polish (Although knowing Polish is highly advisable)

Bzibby made a good point that trener zolwia agreed with. Incidental births are not the deciding factor at all. For example, a pregnant wife could have gone on holiday with her husband and given birth in that country. They have no meaningful connection with that country at all. The child then cannot really be considered as a child of that country unless they establish a settled intention to stay there. Otherwise, no firm grounding is set.

Now, let me have a look at that list.

1) Blood - Blood is so mixed these days given upward mobility. However, it is a crucial determining factor and one which Poles cling to rigidly. Given its internal nature, the logic is sound unless complicating factors come along.

2) Birth/Habitation - These should be dealt with separately. Birth could be merely incidental as stated above. Habitual residence is a matter of debate amongst PIFL laywers and academics. The critical wording is what I used above, 'a settled intention' to lay down roots. Also, ordinarily resident and residential status are different things too. I've been ordinarily resident in Poland for 6 years now but they only count 3 as I didn't register as I wasn't told to. I could easily show a contract but there we go. Anyway, no digressions. It matters that one is habitually resident but one can break that continuity for considerable time and still be Polish. Let me tie this in with the school of thought which says that those abroad for 3-5 years shouldn't be allowed to vote due to being deemed out of touch. Poles can still maintain an active interest in Polish issues abroad and Poles here may not care a jot for such matters yet those people still posit that the Pole abroad should be disenfranchised. Odd!

3) Culture - Religion and language form part of what culture is. Religion? Well, it's not only Poles that are Catholics for starters. Also, sticker culture is useless unless you know what the sticker stands for. I don't think Catholicism, as understood, defines Polishness. Traits may be influenced by religious teachings, of course, but they are not defining beyond reasonable doubt. Language? Again, not defining but it does allow you to tap more into the Polish psyche. Those on Europa da się lubić are not Polish, don't feel Polish yet they speak Polish fluently. They can see where Poles are coming from and glean clear insights but they are still ambassadors for their country and not Poland.

4) Personal preference/declaration - Anyone can claim anything, plausible or implausible. I could really identify with aspects of many cultures I came into contact with but that doesn't mean I belong to that culture. Had I stayed in Japan for 10 years, I might have come to see myself more through their eyes. The same goes for Poland. I will always be a Scot and deep understanding/knowledge of others should not be confused with essence.

5) Sth else? Hmm....maybe a meaningful attachment to norms (inextricably linked to culture, I know). For example, Poles often say 'My Polacy' (us Poles). If you fit many of the things they say, which tend to be highly accurate btw, then there is a high likelihood that you belong if combined with other material factors. Those who Americanise themselves, though still technically Polish, may have gotten out of the 'our way of life' approach taken by many Poles. Thus, their status as Polish diminishes, rightly or wrongly. I can attribute this to the homogeneity in Polish culture. Time spent abroad will test the water further in time.

If one feels Polish, one is not necessarily Polish, Mr G. That's hogwash, sorry! I could feel Polish as Scottish history is much the same. The Scots, like the Poles, are rugged fighters but there are differences. Nonetheless, I have Polish family and a small part of me feels Polish. It doesn't make me Polish, though.

That would seem to make you a descendant of a Pole.


If you're not in the environment, you will lose perspective. With each passing month or year that you're in a different culture, your views will change look at issues based adapted to your surroundings.


The religion bit is hilarious. I wonder if most people practice the same kind of Catholicism abroad as they do here. Regarding the language, how f*cking arrogant do you have to be to claim to be of a group of people, and not speak the language. That's just disgusting. Shows a massive disconnect to the culture, and unwillingness to want to be part of it. If you claim to be Polish, and you don't speak the language to any degree, you're as Polish as I am Chinese.


How about us mixed babies? Some of us feel comfortable in quite a few different cultures, and are accepted as "native".


Great comment.

We are products of our environment. Environment changes, so do we.

We all descend from somewhere, or so they say ;) ;)

True! Culture shock has to be experienced and adjustments have to be made. You cannot seclude yourself from that so easily.

Language is the foundation element, that which we base our turns of phrase on and, well, virtually everything that matters. Without this core aspect, you cannot claim to be Polish and that's what delph said too.

Well, accepted by whom? If you have a meaningful connection to that country through mixed parentage, you are part Polish. End of story! Some lean towards one side at the expense of the other. Some embrace both and that's great! I know Thai/Polish guys brought up in the US. They chose not to learn Thai but one brother did. The other 2 focussed on learning Polish. They are more Polish than I am for sure.

Survival of the fittest and all that :) God gave us the power to adapt so we'd be as well use it ;)

I had a friend whose dad was Lebanese, mother French and she was born in Netherlands, living in Poland with grandma. When she was 19 and filling papers for uni, she had to fill a field titled "nationality" (next to a field "citizenship"). She had really hard time what she should write but eventually she wrote "polish" ;)

What a mess!

I'm guessing gorgeous? Still living in Poland? How about throwing out a bone here?

no, just life.

A confusing life. What nationality? What culture do they abide... what traditions and what holidays do they celebrate?... Too much. It's all I can do to keep up with one... Lol...

sure, but there are a lot of people of mixed origin and it is possible to manage, if one has no other choice:)