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ARE YOUNG BRITS LESS INTELLIGENT THAN POLES?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
10 Jun 2008 /  #1
Many young Poles in prmary, junior secondary (gimnazjum) and senior secodnary (liceum) schools find the educational level of British schools abysmally low after transferring there. They are therefore bored during lessons because they have already covered most of the material during their previous Polish schooling. A case in point is 16-year-old Aleksander Kurcharski from the central city of £ódź who returned to Poland to continue his education after two years in the British system. He found his British classmates totally ignorant about the outside world and generally uninterested in broadening their intellectual horizons. All they care about is having fun, buying things and getting plastered on weekends. Is this an isolated case, or is the overall level of British education inferior to that of Poland?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Jun 2008 /  #2
The fact remains that educated Poles come to the UK to do 'lesser' jobs but still get paid more than in Poland. U don't reward educational achievement so highly in Poland, where's the intelligence in that?
dtaylor 9 | 823  
10 Jun 2008 /  #3
I think a degree in the UK goes alot further than one from Poland.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
10 Jun 2008 /  #4
You might want to quantify your question in order to get an intelligent answer.

Just some intelligence types:

1. Linguistic and verbal intelligence: good with words
2. Logical intelligence: good with math and logic
3. Spatial intelligence: good with pictures
4. Body/movement intelligence: good with activities
5. Musical intelligence: good with rhythm
6. Interpersonal intelligence: good with communication
7. Intrapersonal intelligence: good with analyzing things
8. Naturalist intelligence: good with understanding natural world

The English education system is very different from that in Poland but it is very important to understand that intelligence doesn't come from from education alone.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Jun 2008 /  #5
Precisely, intelligence is multi-faceted. It's a rounded concept which encapsulates many factors. Even emotional intelligence has attracted many authors. It has some substantive content.
LondonChick 31 | 1,133  
10 Jun 2008 /  #6
The English education system is very different from that in Poland but it is very important to understand that intelligence doesn't come from from education alone.

Very true.

Think of all those academics that you've met who can barely tie their shoelaces.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
10 Jun 2008 /  #7
I have to disagree with all of you except Polonius3's observation and question, Intelligence is a muscle, if you do not use it you loose it. I think the point is that the ground work information in school is at a much lower level in England than in most of Europe. There are naturally strong people but they too must train.

I have worked on and off in England and I generally found their basic knowledge shameful, especially when it comes to other countries, but that is why they are so manipulated by their media.

I do not hold English people to blame but rather their educational system and the moral support and guidance of their elders.
It is something I do not expect English people to face and change.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Jun 2008 /  #8
Let me put this another way. Look at PhD graduates from science disciplines. When I read New Scientist, I often read the various jobs that were on offer. PhD required and 9-10,000 British pounds PER YEAR. Hell, Ronaldinho may make 3 times that, IN ONE DAY. That's an afternoon's work for the man.

It's a bad comparison I know but still. The point is clear. They are intelligent for choosing work that matches who they are
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
10 Jun 2008 /  #9
I don't know any academically minded millionaires and I do understand your point.
But that is no excuse for dumbing down a nation.
I think the fact that people are not defending the English educational system but are arguing about what is intelligence and saying a some non-academics get paid immense amounts of money, is to me a sign, not only is it true but because of the lack of education it is difficult to see. There are always discussions in England about the dumbing down of the nation, does Poland have such a problem or discussions?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Jun 2008 /  #10
Well, look at the thread title, intel should be discussed. Aha, u read Brits as English, well, there u go.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
10 Jun 2008 /  #11
I agree intelligence should be discussed, but I find that people are talking about a natural ability or aptitude and I am saying even this needs training. And that school is a form of training i.e. lower the training = lower intelligence.

I know it says Brits but the Scottish people I have met did not seem so uneducated, so I focused on the English part of Britain, where I do find a huge dumbing down. Is there one standard for the whole of Britain?

I remember Tony Blair in the name of diversity, gave the go a head to teach creationalism in some schools, which I find as absolutely mind bogglingly stupid.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
10 Jun 2008 /  #12
I think the fact that people are not defending the English educational system but are arguing about what is intelligence

This could well be because they are answering the question of the post rather than getting drawn into a pointless debate of who has the bigger dick, I mean whose education system is better.

I also think that most Englanders are only too aware how their country's education system has been eroded by this and previous governments. It has been a matter of debate for more years than I care to remember. In fact the debate goes back more years than most posters on this forum have been alive.

How a country chooses to educate its populace is up for the individual country to decide and will be judged differently depending on who is judging. One way to judge the quality and reputation of a country's education system is to look at how many international students decide to study there.

lower the training = lower intelligence

Please. What a foolish thing to claim. It shows very little understanding and undermines anything else you might have to say
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #13
He found his British classmates totally ignorant about the outside world and generally uninterested in broadening their intellectual horizons.

Yes,antiintellectualism is rampant all over western world.It is egarded as elitism and no concern for problems of others.Highly unpopular.
Anyway,since IQ of Poles is lightly superior than english IQ,maybe the differences are more in educational system,maybe polish system is more stiff and more relying on data memorization as it is the case in many countries.

For example greek students who fail to enter greek university due to highly competitive exams,study in UK and do very well.There are about 50000 greek students in UK,maybe the biggest foreign student population.

When some of them get back and enter greek university,they get extremely low grades again,have problem passing even easy exams,while in UK they finish on time.

For example to enter greek medical university,you have to memorize word by word 450 pages of biology,300 pages physics,200 pages chemistry and be able to solve problems in physics and chemistry of university level.The stuff which is taught in Greece in high school is taught in England in first-second year of university.English do not expect pupils to know stuff like that.

So in Greece almost every pupil pays for private lessons for 2-3 years in order to pass the competitive exams where only 10% pass to the university faculty they want.In contrast entrance to english universities is much easier.

I think in Poland there are competitive exams too for entrance to university.I do not know if private lessons are so much extended.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
10 Jun 2008 /  #14
Can someone explain why our second largest industry (money maker worth Billions) is Education if it's so bad?

As for our Education system, we seem to produce some quite inteligent people, education doesn't stop when a child leaves school at 15:30 and lets highlight the fact that English class rooms can have at least a 1/3 of the children whose first language is not English, do you think that this helps?

Basically if some Polish kid thinks he's above the Education system here, he is welcome to go back to Poland, maybe he should take his family with him :) No doubt he'll be back for one of our degrees which are actually recognised around the world.
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #15
Can someone explain why our second largest industry (money maker worth Billions) is Education if it's so bad?

He,he,he.Better not expand here.But let's say if you give a rich arab kid the opportunity to become PhD by spending some dozens of thousands of pounds,then why not?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Jun 2008 /  #16
I've heard that Greek intelligence only goes as far as learning how to make feta salads. Is that true?
osiol 55 | 3,922  
10 Jun 2008 /  #17
You should have seen what Aristotle could do with a lettuce and some olives. Pure genius.
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #18
I've heard that Greek intelligence only goes as far as learning how to make feta salads. Is that true?

No,it goes as far as making feta salads and tzatziki.
I agree ancient Greeks had nothing to do with modern Greeks.They were geniuses.O.K. language has remained a bit and some customs.Not much more.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Jun 2008 /  #19
How would u know, Mr Serbia?
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #20
Serbian-greek connections are very deep,they go 1500 years ago and even more.
rafik 18 | 589  
10 Jun 2008 /  #21
Many young Poles in prmary, junior secondary (gimnazjum) and senior secodnary (liceum) schools find the educational level of British schools abysmally low after transferring there. Is this an isolated case, or is the overall level of British education inferior to that of Poland?

secondary education here in the uk seem to be worse than in poland.i read this article and agree with that.however,univeristies are much better.the level of education at the british unis is much higher and the unis are better organised than those in poland.there was an article in one of the polish newspaper where a young polish student have chosen to study in the uk because he could not learn any more at the polish uni.he admired everything about the place.

it seems that a lot of people here choose not to go to university because there is a huge gap between the level of secondary and high education,which is a good thing cuz only the best go further into education.unfortunately those who are not necesarily the most intelligent but rich(e.g.kids of doctors, lawyers bussinesmen or rich ikds from abroad) go through but this is the same in every country..
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #22
unfortunately those who are not necesarily the most intelligent but rich(e.g.kids of doctors, lawyers bussinesmen or rich ikds from abroad) go through

Yes,the rich can go through in GB.In other countries they face difficulties and get banned by competitive examinations.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
10 Jun 2008 /  #23
relying on data memorization as it is the case in many countries.

Good point

I mean whose education system is better.

I think that has everything to do with the topic

It has been a matter of debate for more years than I care to remember

Yes and it still goes on...maybe for a good reason.
And I do not think anyone is disputing Oxford, Cambridge etc...
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #24
, I often read the various jobs that were on offer. PhD required and 9-10,000 British pounds PER YEAR. Hell, Ronaldinho may make 3 times that, IN ONE DAY

Yes,society does not reward academic intelligence while it rewards kinesthetic intelligence(which Ronaldhinio has in excess).
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
10 Jun 2008 /  #25
Yes,the rich can go through in GB.

Because a GB degree is recognised around the world and that fact we have some of the top unis in the world counts for something too!

Anyway, all things are changing with regards to immigration so people may stop coming here because they are not guaranteed the possibility of a British Passport!

it seems that a lot of people here choose not to go to university because there is a huge gap between the level of secondary and high education,

Sorry to disagree but that has nothing to do with it. fees have a lot to do with it, £20,000 is the average debt a kid will walk away with after 3 years - at 21 / 22 years old, would you want that? You are right when you say that the more well off can aford to go, mummy and daddy can bankroll them for 3 years!
rafik 18 | 589  
10 Jun 2008 /  #26
Sorry to disagree but that has nothing to do with it. fees have a lot to do with it, £20,000

yup.you are right but after the uni one can earn 30.000£-40.000 a year insted of 15.000£ a year.it is all about how determined people are to improve their lives.sometimes they just choose the easier way.
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Jun 2008 /  #27
Because a GB degree is recognised around the world and

Don't be so sure.Recognition came after heavy battles and I am not sure that every GB degree is recognized in Germany for example.

fact we have some of the top unis in the world counts for something too!

Yes,it is true.Problem is very few immigrants study in these unis while a whole lot of foreigners study in low class universities which are recognized as equal due to EU regulations,however English regard them as low ranked.

So the situation is more complicated.Germany for example does not have so many high ranked unis but it does not have low ranked either.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
10 Jun 2008 /  #28
Yes,it is true.Problem is very few immigrants study in these unis while a whole lot of foreigners study in low class universities which are recognized as equal due to EU regulations,however English regard them as low ranked.
So the situation is more complicated.Germany for example does not have so many high ranked unis but it does not have low ranked either

The ranking is quite clear so it's up to a student where he/she studies or is able to study, we dont drag them here - new points system is causing them problems though! ;-) Not so simple anymore!
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
10 Jun 2008 /  #29
Probab;y worth adding as I am sure many dont realise. English university degrees are narmally achieved in 3 years rather than 4+ which is frequently the case in other countries, especially on the Continent. This is becasue we cover in the last year or so of school whatmany Continental degree courses cover in their first year.

As for little Alexander Kurczaki one has to wonder why he came to study in the UK in the first place. Didn't he bother researching the many faults of the English education system before making such an upheaval? That's not very bright.

No doubt he'll be back for one of our degrees which are actually recognised around the world.

The seemingly tragic in this Shelly is that he will probably do his degree in Poland and then come back to wait tables in the UK. That really is sad.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
10 Jun 2008 /  #30
That really is sad.

Agreed

But then again you get a lot of Scandinavians studying medicine here in Poland because it is cheaper and still considered very good quality.

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