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TRUTH AND DELUSION ABOUT POLES IN UK


Seanus 15 | 19,706  
17 Jan 2008 /  #31
U'd assume so. I was just making the point that sb from the Third World makes almost double of what a Pole makes, talking in averages of course. That'd get a few people in a flap, considering that the Poles are supposed to produce some of the best doctors in the world. Being part of the EU makes their movement easier, just look at Van Binsbergen for example.
welshguyinpola 23 | 463  
27 Jan 2009 /  #32
First of all, many Poles have been working in the UK without any contract.

PROVE IT!!!

Puzzler, never have I seen anyone so wrong. Minimum wage in UK UK is now 5.35 and any Pole working in the UK LEGALLY is entitled to that. THere are also many British people working for this wage. To earn anything over 8 pounds hour for the type of jobs that immigrants do is unusual. What the hell do you expect someone waiting on a table to earn? Its a fact that all the good lawyers and doctors etc stayed in Poland as there was always plenty of well paid work for them here. The ones that had no or little experince went to UK to do manual work.

As for the living conditions, who chooses to live like that? An average British citizen has to pay a mortgage or rent of around 500-700 a month whereas theser polish guys choose to live together to avoid these costs. Last summer I went home and went to a Polish friend's house party, they lived in apalling conditions, matresses lined up on the floor, a tiny fridge etc. THEY CHOSE IT.

Puzzler, out of interest, did u ever see the thread on here where one of ur fellow countrymen warned foreigners not to buy land in Poland as they are not welcome?? Look it up. I think her name was Ola sth

So can we call her an Anglophobe??
osiol 55 | 3,922  
27 Jan 2009 /  #33
many Poles have been working in the UK without any contract. As such, they are not entitled to any benefits. They can be - and are - sacked whenever it suits their employers and then find themselves without any social assistance whatsoever.

Who would accept a job with no contract? Who would move to another country to work without bothering to go through all the correct procedures? I have known one or two, but I know that if I were to move abroad, I wouldn't put myself at such risk.

I've seen some Poles living in very cramped conditions yet others who try and even succeed in living a reasonably comfortable life here.
OP Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
27 Jan 2009 /  #34
PROVE IT!!!

- Prove what?

Puzzler, out of interest, did u ever see the thread on here where one of ur fellow countrymen warned foreigners not to buy land in Poland as they are not welcome?? Look it up. I think her name was Ola sth

- Yes, I've seen it. So? Ola appears to be just one person, not many, so why do you speak about my 'fellow countrymen'? Do you mean that Ola reflects the attitude of many, or all Poles? By the way, Ola's post is an ancient one, from two years back, or so. Now, are all the Welsh happy about the Poles living in Wales? Would they be happy if foreigners, notably Poles, started buying land in Wales? In Wales, there was an attempt at blowing up a house where a Polish family lived. There have been beatings of Poles working there. There was - maybe still exists - a Welsh hate website levelled at Poles.

Who would accept a job with no contract?

- E.g. one who has no other choice. Many Poles didn't.
noimmigration  
27 Jan 2009 /  #35
why should poles expect to come to our country and work in highly skilled well paid jobs, those jobs dont belong to you or any other eastern european.

You chose to come here we put up with you, no one forced 1.5 million poles to come to britain.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498  
27 Jan 2009 /  #36
Why would someone who does not work and pays no tax - criticise those that do work and pay tax?
osiol 55 | 3,922  
27 Jan 2009 /  #37
E.g. one who has no other choice. Many Poles didn't.

I wouldn't say that there was no choice for many Poles. I have worked with Poles who already had jobs in Poland before leaving (eg. mechanic, schoolteacher) and some who could not find work where they were living in Poland. Nobody forced them to choose the UK. Moving to another part of Poland may have been enough for some. Many chose to do all the necessary paperwork, others either didn't know or didn't care, but to get a reasonable job, proper worker registration is essential.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
27 Jan 2009 /  #38
superjay's post number #16 It's probably the greatest post I have ever read on here about the British.
I am surprised it was not remarked or commented on???.

good things about is the Republic of Ireland

I am very pleased to hear this.
Of course bad things have happened to some people.
There are some terribly thick and racist Irish edgits but on the whole I have heard very good things about Polish people in my country, they work hard and get on with there lives.

Similarly I have heard from Polish people who enjoy living in Ireland, although of course it is not enjoyable when you loose your job but this is not just for Polish people.

There is one unjustified sterio type in the tabloid (manly newspapers for uneducated people) and that is that Eastern Europeans, especially Polish can not drive and cause many accidents on our roads, now just take into account that in Ireland you do not need a full licence to drive a car on the road.

I lived in various parts of England to work and I have always felt much more at home here in Poland (my place of residence) than I ever did in England, for various reasons.

Even with the language barrier I feel more at home here.
I do love and sometimes miss Ireland but I have moved on.

Well Puzzler, I don't know what your agenda is but you have single handedly livened up this place.
dtaylor 9 | 823  
27 Jan 2009 /  #39
I think the same goes for me with Scotland, though now i have final interview with the FFL, so future is bright.

One thing i'll say for Ireland, or Ulster as some will see it, Belfast is one of the most beautiful cities i've ever visited.
OP Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
27 Jan 2009 /  #40
I wouldn't say that there was no choice for many Poles

- I mean: many Poles who came had to accept no-contract jobs, because, for example, they were cheated by folks bringing them over or hiring them. They had to accept those no-contract jobs, otherwise, they would find themselves in the street, with no money, no assistance, in a foreign country, etc. I never wrote that Poles were forced to come to UK, osiol. On the other hand, the British job advertising in Poland was quite forceful.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
27 Jan 2009 /  #41
superjay

Do you go to Poland often?.
I am frankly astonished by your insights on post 16 of this thread, truly enriching.

I wonder if you studied sociology or some such subject are you a writer?.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
28 Jan 2009 /  #42
Now, are all the Welsh happy about the Poles living in Wales? Would they be happy if foreigners, notably Poles, started buying land in Wales? In Wales, there was an attempt at blowing up a house where a Polish family lived. There have been beatings of Poles working there. There was - maybe still exists - a Welsh hate website levelled at Poles.

The Welsh have a history of doing this with incomers, particularly the English, so again, no special treatment for Poles there. A particular fringe see themselves as an oppressed and exploited people and resent people buying Welsh land and houses and running up the prices. A few years ago a number of English owned premises were firebombed. Mind you, at least Poles can buy land in UK, foreigners had to wait 7 years to buy land in EU Poland, if I remember correctly.

Another reason for some antagonism against Polish dwellings was the practice of local firms renting accomodation for their Polish workers and queue jumping the rnting/buying process. This happened in Telford, Shropshire when a syndicate had promised a number of local families new flats. In some cases two weeks before they were due to move in they were told the flats weren't available. It turned out a local factory had hird all the flats for their incoming workers (funnily enough the local press played it down, so I'm told).

I live and work in Poland and I've had absolutely nothing but hassle concerning bureaucracy... 'foreigners can't start firms in Poland!' (seems the local offices had thir own ideas), "You can't get credit because you don't have an id with your PESEL" (which is a card which doesn't exist), "you can't get 5 year credit to buy a car because you don't have 5 years on your id card and you might run away back to UK".

As for minimum wages and no contracts, fact of life for many Brits (I remember seeing a programme in Poland about how Ireland had no minimum wage). A friend of mine has worked over 20 years in the temp market and now has not been able to get work for over 6 months. I workd as a temp in UK during the summer (2008) and it took me weeks to find a job (they wouldn't accept my UK photo driving licence as id!!!!) and then it was only 6 quid an hour. McD's pay 6.37! I was told the rate hadn't moved in 3 years.

Ironically I was earning more in Poland as an hourly wage.

As to only taking low wage jobs... if you are not going to stay long in a country and forge a career it can be hard to get well paid jobs. I heard several times that employers were moaning that there wer a lack of skilled workers in highly skilled jobs which could have been filled by Polish workers IF they had tried for them.
Mister H 11 | 761  
29 Jan 2009 /  #43
superjay's post number #16 It's probably the greatest post I have ever read on here about the British.
I am surprised it was not remarked or commented on???.

Well, I've just tried to read it, but it is a wall of writing.

It needs some paragraphs to help the reader to keep with it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jan 2009 /  #44
Too late to edit it. I gave it a read and I agree with SeanBM, there are a number of home truths there. I do feel that certain English media outlets have been detrimental and look for targets. The Scots are often lumped into that bracket and, whilst we shouldn't be exonerated from blame, we tend to be more civil in our stance.
Wroclaw Boy  
29 Jan 2009 /  #45
many Poles who came had to accept no-contract jobs, because, for example, they were cheated by folks bringing them over or hiring them.

and the ones doing the cheating were their own fellow country men.

On the other hand, the British job advertising in Poland was quite forceful.

Absolutely, adverts by Poles. What a great scam that was, pay us 2000 PLN and we promise job accomodation transport etc. The minute they got to Victoria station, they were either conned again or left on their own.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jan 2009 /  #46
Well, there was a film about Polish workers in the UK. I can't remember for the world of me what is was called. There was a crackdown by the UK government to stop illicit practices and sneaking under the radar.

You know, many people don't know that you are entitled to authentic copies of contracts in both Polish and English. Some Poles just signed too quickly, eager to get underway in their new work environment. They were caught out by smallprint. There was a thread about this last year.

No-contract jobs? That's ludicrous. With no written guarantees, what can you expect but rip-off merchants and schysters.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
29 Jan 2009 /  #47
People from my country worked in England when it was incredibly difficult for Irish men (and women ) to do anything in England.
Organised 'Paddy Bashing', (this was English people violently beating up Irish people).
For many of the same reasons I continuously read on this very forum about Blacks, Pakistanis, Muslims etc...

The Irish were seen as taking all the jobs, infecting the population, stupid, easy to ridicule, someone to feel superior to, working in cramped conditions like rats, undercutting prices and blowing up pubs.

These men were tough people, they went to England with nothing in their droves and lived on the streets and on building sites for hundreds of years, always falling into the lowest class system the English have.

Many too embarrassed to return to Ireland, others became too fond of the drink and even more thinking that there was nothing for them in Ireland.

Does this ring any bells yet?.

I am trying to keep on topic here, as best I can.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that all the fear, hate, xenophobia is nothing new.

Things have moved on from there or have they, really?.

============================================

A strange thing I found is that good English people (which there are many) were, to a lesser extent, looked down upon too or just got on with it.

============================================

I am always surprised by one particular member of this forum.
Who knows her history and still groups Irish and English as similar but HATES Blacks, Pakistanis, Muslims etc...???.

I think, most Irish and Polish people see more in common with the underdogs of this world.
IronsE11 2 | 442  
29 Jan 2009 /  #48
Curiously, the only negative experiences (3 of them) I've had regarding my Polishness have come at the hands of 3 English people - 2 high school teachers and a work 'colleague'. The detentions and near expulsion were worth it for the bigoted scum calling themselves teachers and the sore knuckle were worth it for the work colleague (back in my younger days, mind you).

Finally, the root of your hatred and prejudice has come to light.

it seems clear to me that Polish immigrants arent welcome in the UK.

Clear from what? When was the last time you were here, and for how long?

I am always surprised by one particular member of this forum.
Who knows her history and still groups Irish and English as similar but HATES Blacks, Pakistanis, Muslims etc...???.

ShelleyS?
Kilkline 1 | 689  
29 Jan 2009 /  #49
Many too embarrassed to return to Ireland, others became too fond of the drink and even more thinking that there was nothing for them in Ireland.

Tis true, the English are a wicked bunch to be sure!

Come on Sean. I think you're over doing it a bit there. You make it sound like every Paddy was p1ssed, living in squalor and fearing for their lives from gangs of skinheads on every street corner. I grew up in a city in England where 1 in 7 people are Irish and most of my friends are plastic Paddys. The story you tell is often told but rarely verified by first hands accounts.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
29 Jan 2009 /  #50
A friend of mine in a very Polish town could be beginning to feel the disillusionment. Perhaps when more of the more mobile Poles move back to Poland, there will be less competition for jobs. When there are a lot of jobs around, being able to speak English is of lower importance than now when there is a lot more competition. Anyone want to hire a Polish-speaking driver / horticultural manual labourer?

Organised 'Paddy Bashing', (this was English people violently beating up Irish people).

In all my life, I have never seen or even heard of such a thing. Which decade are we talking about? Perhaps which century?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
29 Jan 2009 /  #51
I am referring to London in particular.

You make it sound like every Paddy was p1ssed, living in squalor and fearing for their lives from gangs of skinheads on every street corner.

This has all changed for Irish people.
I think people reading what I have written will understand what I mean, from a Polish perspective.

The story you tell is often told but rarely verified by first hands accounts.

I only know first hand accounts but it has become better and better for the Irish over time.
Now it is at the stage, where it is fashionable to be Irish.
But other groups have taken our place.

---------------------------------------------------------------

In all my life, I have never seen or even heard of such a thing. Which decade are we talking about? Perhaps which century?

1970's, when my father worked in London.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
29 Jan 2009 /  #52
1970's, when my father worked in London.

I was too young to go paddy-bashing back then. It does actually suprise me. It's the sort of thing I could imagine from the 1950s or before.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
29 Jan 2009 /  #53
SeanBM: 1970's, when my father worked in London.

I was too young to go paddy-bashing back then. It does actually suprise me. It's the sort of thing I could imagine from the 1950s or before.

Ah, was this anytime around the time certain people were planting bombs in Birmingham pubs or sending bombs through the post? It might have had something to do with it.

The Irish did have a hard time post-war. There's the famous 'no dogs, Blacks or Irish" signs. There was also the post war "Polacy go home" movement in England AND Scotland.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
29 Jan 2009 /  #54
Ah, was this anytime around the time certain people were planting bombs in Birmingham pubs or sending bombs through the post? It might have had something to do with it.

Not my dad.

------------------------------------------------------------------

My point has actually nothing to do with Irish people in England, I hope that has not been missed.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jan 2009 /  #55
In one part of Scotland maybe, Trevek
David_18 68 | 982  
29 Jan 2009 /  #56
The ones who left Poland made a chooice.

And believe me if 1 million britts would come to Poland for work, it would be an catastrophe. People would probably throw stones at them and make some kinda inquisition hunt on the britts.

HAha i can really imagine how it would look like.

PEACE!!!!
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
30 Jan 2009 /  #57
Not my dad.

No, I didn't mean to suggest he was, but the provo mainland campaign of the 1970's had the effect of making a lot of innocent Irish scapegoats and targets.

In one part of Scotland maybe, Trevek

Perhaps a large part. Don't forget that a lot of Gen Anders' mob demobbed in Scotland (In Glasgow they used to say, "You can't go anywhere without meeting a Pole"). I have a book about the wartime Poles in Scotland which I picked up at the Sikorski Club in Glasgow. It mentions the campaign a little bit. I'll have a look and see what it says.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
30 Jan 2009 /  #58
Books can often lie. I entertain the possibility that it could have been the case but I heard very favourable things about the Poles in Glasgow. My grandad lived there in his youth. He would have been 14 when WWII started.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
31 Jan 2009 /  #59
Seanus, the book is a collection of interviews with old Poles and people who worked with/married them. One lady comments on the movement (not sure how big it actually was: probably not huge) in Scotland after the war. It was when people didn't understand why Polish servicemen didn't (COULDN'T) return home after the war.

amazon.co.uk/Lion-Eagle-Polish-Veterans-Scotland/dp/095350364X
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
31 Jan 2009 /  #60
Excellent link, Trevek. Thanks for that. A lot of Poles are well received in Scotland. I posted a link elsewhere about a Polish-Scottish society aimed at fostering positive ties between our 2 people.

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