What's So Great About The UK?

Hi to all of you! I love to bring my opinion, but I have never been in UK,but do live and work in Germany for 5 years and after that imigrate to USA. live and teach for the last 16 years. If I can relate my answer to the question of Mister H: We East Europeans/I'm born in Bulgaria/ do live our homelands for better life . Work hard ,trive,stady abroad and acheeve goals that wasn't attainable in the places we was born at the time.Some start from the bottom of social lader, some not, but as all so call loco people dream for beeng able to provide, enjoy and be happy with out braking the low of the countries that adapt us, preserving as well our unic indentity.I, as one of this foreigners appritiate the oportunity ,size it and enjoy it the privilege to be accepted as equal in the western world.

You could go private. The trouble would be you would have to pay what the health care actually costs, not a £20 donation.


Obviously. You are in Britain. British qualifications are the qualifications your potential employers understand. An internationally recognised qualification is still better than a foreign one though. As I explained before, there are issues when recruiting foreign staff. Why would a potential employer take the risk if the market is flooded? This may change over time however.


I guess that this is because given our rules and regulations, she would still need to be re-trained in every area. This is not surprising in health care as the standards and rules are different in other countries.


Don't get me started on this analogy. The English Premier League is the best league in the world! Many professionals do well in Italy and Spain, but fail here. :)


Agreed. I'm sure you are a very competent interpreter. Your language skills seem excellent from what I have seen here. All I am doing though is explaining why employers are reluctant to take the chance on you.


I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, just that it is why some people get annoyed. From observations in other threads here, the main concern seems to be that it is bad for our economy.

Message to cheated.

You mention that your wife is Asian....she's not even part of the EU so has no real right to be in the UK, so I dont know what your point is about preserving Britishness.

If every immigrant paid twenty pounds every time they saw a doctor, the money would soon start adding up. Apart from that, we do pay NICs and taxes at the same rates you do.

I know what I say now will be considered racist and politically incorrect, but still: think of the mass of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants in the UK who never pay taxes or National Insurance, and very often don't work at all, but nevertheless receive free housing, medical care, education etc. etc. Yet the public opinion concerns itself entirely with those terrible, troublesome Poles - why is that? There is a lot I don't like about Poles in the UK, but hey, most of them at least obey the rules and work hard. And believe me - in case of serious illness most Poles go home and get treatment in Poland because they have already realized that the NHS wouldn't be of much help.


Sure, no problem with that - to a certain point. I just checked the price of the IoL DipTrans examination - I thought I remembered it cost somewhere in the area of 200 pounds. I was wrong though. The exam consists of several parts and the overall cost can exceed 500 pounds (i.e., my typical monthly income). So what criterion is really being used here - language skills or level of overall affluence? Why is the fee so exorbitant? Additionally, there is only one examination date per year. The IoL seems intent on making it as difficult as possible to even get a chance at trying! Snobbery and unpleasantness all around.


When I first arrived, I thought I would enter a free market in which the English-innocent Poles would seek out people like me to translate and interpret for them. They would pay me out of their own pocket, and I would then pay Her Majesty any taxes and contributions due. Thus, my clients' salaries would have effectively been taxed twice, a nice thing for any economy, I would think, and I would still have plenty of clients and money for myself.

Sounds nice?
Well, the truth is totally different. The market is as heavily regulated as they come, in public service interpreting I need to work through local councils who pay me as little as possible while most of the money stays with the local authority. I don't know how it works out accounting-wise, but e.g. a surgery pays the council for my service, the council pays me a certain amount of that, and the rest of the money goes into keeping the council interpreting service going, I guess. I earn very little, the end user (the Pole) pays nothing, the intermediary (surgery or school) pays 100%. I don't think the economy likes that terribly, and I am not happy with the solution either. The only totally satisfied person is the end user, who gets a specialized service for free. No comments.

Magdalena - firstly, from what I have read on here, you have an excellent grasp of English, at least of the written word. I don't know how your spoken English is, but I'd presume it was of an equal level. But like someone else said, there are a lot of Polish here now, and that will mean others who have an equally good grasp of English, both written and spoken.

Which brings me to my next point. Most Poles seem to head initially to London and the South East, which is very expensive to live in. Like you say, you find yourself earning peanuts because of the cost of living. A lot of big towns and cities now have a Polish population and this might be one way of improving your situation.

Personally, I dislike the mentality in London (and I am a Londoner) but I live in Yorkshire. The cost of living is a lot less in cities like Leeds, Sheffield and York (and York is very typically English, if you're looking for that romanticised view of England!). At least compared to London. Maybe it would be beneficial to you to look at other areas of the UK, that doesn't have such an established Polish community.

Maybe have a look at gumtree.com, on the towns/cities in the north of England, and search on "polish", there might well be something there.

dont tell everyone! I doubt there will be many areas without an established Polish community soon. Poles are now officially the 3rd largest immigrant group in Britain (the others being the Irish and the Pakistanis). Anyway, having lived in London for many years I have also decided to move further North.. mainly in order to have a better chance of getting on the property market, as there is zero chance in London and for my partner to have a better chance of getting decent work with less competition.

Can anyone spare a thought for those English people who financially support Polish partners?

Ah... so.... don't tell anyone... because you want your Polish boyfriend to get a job up here?

Gotcha... wont say a dicky-bird! LOL

There isn't one here yet where I live lol.......


Gosh, that's a big step to take. Good luck with it :)

I think you are wrong here. You see this because you frequent this site. I'm sure if you looked on C18's web site you would find that illegals are considered much more of a problem than Poles. My comment was posted as a solution to your 'who to pay' problem,. I agree with you though, you make your contributions, you get the health care.


That's life. The streets of London are not paved with gold. Those prices are cheap in comparison with many of the software development courses I have had to purchase.


Your clients salaries are not being taxed twice. Your clients salary is being taxed, then yours is. The key here is that there are two people taking advantage of our services, and two people paying tax.


So your situation is made worse because taxpayers are subsidising Polish immigrants translation fees. How ironic.

I do feel for you, honestly, but the more you say I just feel that the supply is far greater than the demand for your skills, so you will struggle. Where I work there are many Polish people who's English is almost perfect so maybe it is not seen as a professional job as such. Have you thought of looking at specific areas? A lot of the Poles where I am fall down when talking technical.

Central!


Simply not true.

I earn a little over the Polish minimum wage and that's more than enough to pay all of mine and my wife's living costs. I'll grant there isn't too much left over but there is a little. We couldn't survive in the uk on just one wage.

Mister H, if Polish and indeed other immigrants were required to pay for public services like healthcare, education, and had no entitlement to unemployment benefits, and only got housing benefits after Brits with more urgent need, do you think then that you would feel more at ease with the immigration situation? And then maybe after a set time (I agree with 5 years whoever said that) of paying NI and taxes, could they qualify for an equal share of the public services for free.

Or even then would the issue of national pride still prevent you from feeling at ease with immigrants from Poland in particular (only because there have been so many in such a remarkably short time period - immigrants from Asia and Africa have been trickling in at a more or lease steady rate since the 1960s and before that, even, so whoever brought that up, that's the main difference between the Polish immigrant debate and others).

So, is the above solution enough, do you think, or is it really a sense of fear and dislike of losing British cultures and traditions amongst an influx of foreigners?

p.s. your original question, why do they come here, I think has more or less been answered, but this is an interesting thread and for the most part, interesting and well-put views from all sides.

thank you. Not so big a step since I was thinking about the Midlands and thats where I come from originally. However, the Poles have already infiltrated Birmingham, they are driving the buses and everything and there is even a Polish food shop in my small home town now.. so I may have to rethink.. where do you live again LIR? :)

Humour and inept sign writing make this country of mine great:



and

You're assuming that his wife is not a British born asian, so she may have a British passport.


Yes I think I would feel better if there was less "Day 1" entitlement to things such as the NHS and the education system. Also no one could accuse anyone of wanting a free ride and anyone wanting said free ride wouldn't come here.

After five years of contributing it would be a different situation all together.


My main concern over the influx is mainly a practical one ie. where do we put everyone ? The UK is a tiny island and seems to be running out of space.

As for eroding British culture, that is something that is a much wider issue and if anything has been slipping away for ages. Some may think we're an intolerant nation, but in some ways we're over tolerant and allow ourselves to be walked over. There was talk on the radio this morning about certain areas of big cities being "no-go" areas unless you're muslim. This was probably a bit over stated, but it is that sort of thing that I mean.

In September 2006 I went to find my Dad's childhood home in Sparkhill, Birmingham. At best I would say it is now a ghetto mainly populated by muslims. I'm not saying anyone was forced to move away, but that seems to have been the result.

In some ways, we've not been "allowed" to hang onto our culture in that for fear of upsetting another culture or of being seen as racist, we've backed off, leaving them to do what they want.

Culture will always change - some more rapidly than others. Take these as being some of the more important aspects of culture: food, language, religion, music, clothes.

British food lost something over the years and desperately needed new additions, hence Indian, Italian and so on. We still drink lots of tea with milk in it though.

We still speak the same language, although as with any language, it changes over time. The English language tends to have quite a good attitude to new things and change.

Religion has become less important, but this again has varied over time - there were times in the past when Christianity was waned or people have changed to other branches of Christianity or taken on different ideas.

Music - British music is, and for some time, has been, amongst the best, most forward-thinking in the world. Of course American music has and will continue to be very popular and feed into our own music, but so has Jamaican, Latin American, music from other parts of Europe even. Again, it is something that is dynamic.

Some people think that culture is about waving a flag, but if the culture behind that flag is something you don't really subscribe to, ie. traditional British food as opposed to pasta, pizza, curry or Chinese; the music you listen to is American; then there is less and less left behind than a distrust of people who are different in some way.


There are, unfortunately, people who generalise any dislike of aspects of other cultures as being racist. There are also people who are racist and are just upset that the predominant view is that racism is not a good thing.

There are things I really don't like about Spanish culture (such as bullfighting), there are things I do not like about Islam (suppression of women as one example), and I really cannot stand that bloody disco-polo. That doesn't lead me to say the Spanish, Muslims or Polish people are all inferior, as would be the case with some people (who are racist).

No. I just know what I like, do the things that come naturally to me and that is my culture.

- A good point, ShelleyS.

No it's not. A cousin of mine is married to a British-born man of Indian origin. He doesn't even like curry! (As if that makes any difference). Where does he belong. If they have children, where will they belong?

- Do you mean you'd go back without your Polish wife?


- So you fled from foreigners to a foreign land? A smart (and patriotic) move.


- Bluntness for bluntness: many of us, Poles, don't really enjoy living in UK and are getting the heaven out. (Just read, if you're able to, on the Polish websites, such as onet.pl, what the Poles in UK say on the subject.) Leaving UK to real immigrants - those from Africa and Asia (we Poles are predominantly just temporary workers in the UK).

Thanks for your hospitality, England!

... Happy now, Polonophobic xenophobe?
:)


- Fine, then it is and it is not. Does it sound satisfactory, Osiolek?
:)

I'm happy for them. I know plenty of people from diverse backgrounds who 'fit in' with the society around them, so I don't really care where they or one or other of their parents were from. Aside from people who are here only temporarily, there is a hope for people to become part of the community and not to just have their own communities. Sometimes this happens and sometimes it doesn't, usually based on the culture concerned. Some cultures are more insular than others. Some are positively inbred!

- That's the British media slogan. But the British media - like the media anywhere else - consist mostly of psychopathic liars. Hence is the slogan true? What are the real figures on immigration to UK? Does any one know? Aren't they being kept secret by the British government, as well as the media psychopaths, for the reasons of so-called political correctness, that is in order to conceal the fact that it's mostly Africans and Asians (not Poles) who enter UK? Aren't Poles being made the scapegoats to be trashed for all the British immigration ills?


- Where did you take this figure from? The bottom of a vodka bottle?


- You alone ought to be counted millionfold. It's really really great you're leaving Poland. But, actually, are you? Isn't it just promises promises? Don't disappoint us - please go, asap. I'm sure any country shall gladly take in such a sweet burden!

:)

So is she?


So its okay for Asians to come here?


You should be okay then!

I suggest you sort your double standards about, there are schools that are struggling because the classes are jam packed with asian kids that cant speak English! and some schools are teaching urdu - how about that for preserving Britishness!

That area has been populated by Asians for many many years and the majority of the younger generations were born and bred in Birmingham, so they have as much right to be there as anyone. If people choose to move house because they are xenophobic, then that is by choice, not by force. I was born and bred in the Midlands and am proud to say that I grew up in a multi-cultural society, which has made me the person I am today.

Well,lets look at this;
I live in a bungelow(indian) ,I wear khaki (indian)jeans, for breakfast I sometimes eat kedgeree(indian) and occasionaly go out for a curry(kashmir) after Ive been for a curry I use the khazi(indian) when I cahnge out of my uniform I put on mufti(indian), .Im not going to labour the point(the list of indian influenced things in the UK could go on and on) but,the Indian sub continent has given Britain far more over the years than any country in mainland europe.

My point was that if someone is married to an asian - he has no room to comment on people from other countries coming to the UK to live. As for your points on influences with regards with India, we could argue that many languages have an influence on the words we use today, greek, french, german etc.

It seems most people are unable to accept the fact that Polish immigration can have both positive and negative consequences. People seem to pick a side and sit there with their fingers in their ears often because they have their own selfish motives for being either pro or con-

If you're a Pole you seem to think that there isnt a problem with the massive number of immigrants coming to Britain(unless of course they're brown).

If youre British with a Polish partner you seem to see the Poles that have come here through rose tinted specs- they're all hardworkers, polite and educated etc.

The Brits who are against recent Polish immigration seem to be the ones who have lost out financially because of the economic impact of 1.5m people joining the workforce in low skilled industries.

As an Englishman with a Polish wife I honestly have more sympathy for working class Brits in this matter. Some of them have gone from earning half what I earn, to a quarter- and I live in a crap area, drive a £3k car and have no savings. Therefore I cant imagine what it must be like for them, in there own country being told by foreigners and their own countrymen and women, that they should work harder or do a qualification or just move if they dont like it.

Old, lazy responses that dont hold any water and are easy to trot out as they arent relevant to you and yourrs.

Here! Here!

I think you will find that a considerable amout of culture came from France, Italy, Spain...Im not having a go at India, but I dont think they have given us more than our European neighbours by way of culture.

The Polish I know have mostly told me that working full time in Poland they could not afford a car,holidays,or technical gadgets.Obviously,it depends what part of Poland they lived in and their individual circumstances.

Maybe we have a large contrabution to our język from the Frogs. But like isthatu pointed out the sub continent has contributed the most to the UK.

Shelley,are you aware that for 300 years Britain colonised India etc and became hugely rich from it.Have you seen the photos of the millions of Indian soldier volunteers(many based in Britain)who fought for Britain in the 1st and 2nd World Wars? Unfortunately some people seem too ignorant to understand the difference between good migrants and bad ones.