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British news: The Poles might be leaving but the prejudice remains


polishmancan 8 | 21  
14 Sep 2009 /  #1
Mark Steel: The Poles might be leaving but the prejudice remains

independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-the-poles-might-be-leaving-but-the-prejudice-remains-1783815.html

The latest antimosity between the British and the Poles. A never ending affair.
tornado2007 11 | 2,274  
14 Sep 2009 /  #2
You know i don't think the general concensous is that the 'Poles' are the/a problem, i think its more about what people think about 'immigration' as a whole, i wouldn't say that this or that particular group gets it in the kneck.

If anything i would think the Muslims get the biggest bashing of all, apat from that i think its a 'foreigners' thing and not a 'Polish' thing.
BritishEmpire - | 148  
14 Sep 2009 /  #3
Maybe half of the polish have gone back but its a shame the person that wrote article forgot to mention that most of the spaced they left behind have been filled with newcomers.

I certainly have seen no difference in the number of polish people that are here or at my work place.
Wroclaw Boy  
14 Sep 2009 /  #4
Half of the Polish have gone back my ass, the author keeps referring to bent tabloid statistics. I think he needs to verify some statistics of his own, his are way out of proportion. Probably an immigrant himself.
BritishEmpire - | 148  
14 Sep 2009 /  #5
You could be right wroclaw, its probably gordon brown really.
If anything there seems to be more as many are flooding over to ride out the recession or have been invited to do so by a family member thats already here.
MrBubbles 10 | 614  
14 Sep 2009 /  #6
If anything i would think the Muslims get the biggest bashing of all, apat from that i think its a 'foreigners' thing and not a 'Polish' thing.

You're probably right there. Poles tend to make the news because they're the largest homogenous group and their immigration has been pretty much all over the country, ergo they're a convenient label for the media because most people can relate to them (Poles are metaphors for immigrants).

When the newspapers bash the Poles, all they're doing is perpetuating the same old anti immigrant rhetoric that elements of Britain have been pumping out for years about blacks Asians and whoever, just on a target that's more difficult to label as 'different'.
Mister H 11 | 761  
14 Sep 2009 /  #7
Mark Steel, the guy that wrote the article, really doesn't get the point at all.

It reads as a pretty typical "you're a racist if you even dare to criticise open-door immigration".

It's just lazy journalism at the end of the day. I don't know how people like this Mark Steel character get these jobs. He's not done anything to try and find out WHY people feel the way that they do about immigration, he's just dismissing them as being the ones with the problem and not bothering to find out any more.

I fully agree that the right-wing press "oh no, the immigrants are coming!" type headlines are damaging, but people like Mark Steel hold the debate up too, they don't advance it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
14 Sep 2009 /  #8
The British government can hardly moan as it's a central theme of the EU treaty. The Van Binsbergen case was the seminal one that established the free movement of workers. I think it was the Dassonville case that established the general free movement principle. You give people attractive options, they invariably take them.

The big problem is that we are two stubborn peoples. Most Brits will cling to English as it's all they know. Many Poles stick to their own. I was arranging my wedding meal today and he kept speaking to my fiancee, even though he heard me speak Polish. It didn't seem to dawn on him that it my input was needed to.

Many people have become caught up in this so-called rat race and they have become selfish. They turn away from that which will make them uncomfortable.
BritishEmpire - | 148  
15 Sep 2009 /  #9
We are an island nation, its nothing new that we don't like outsiders.
Arien 3 | 721  
15 Sep 2009 /  #10
Many people have become caught up in this so-called rat race and they have become selfish.

I think you've hit the nail on the head right there! (I think it's the same everywhere though, and not just in the UK, or Poland.) I never turn away when someone could use a little help, and usually I can miss a few coins, or a few minutes..

We are an island nation, its nothing new that we don't like outsiders.

Ah, but your ancestors were Spanish, German, Danish, Norwegian, Dutch, Fresian, Italian, French and whatnot.. So who's the outsider? Why not take every individual for he or she is? Why not ask them a few questions yourself, instead of relying on newspapers, rumours or hearsay? They're people, just like you.

;)
szczeciniak 4 | 92  
15 Sep 2009 /  #11
We are an island nation, its nothing new that we don't like outsiders

that is sweet , for australia is an island nation and we do like outsiders(english)
but only for holidays
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2009 /  #12
Britain abandoned splendid isolation in 1902. Being an island culture is a lame excuse in today's global village. Telecommunications and the EU have put paid to that.

Outsiders have given Britain a wealth of options and diversity.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,499  
15 Sep 2009 /  #13
The article is about England - it's become one of our quaint English traditions.

We are an island nation, its nothing new that we don't like outsiders.

I disagree,Britain as a whole is disintegrating. Independance movement in Scotland is growing - this thread is one example of why.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
15 Sep 2009 /  #14
Some are prejudiced and some aren't. I don't like people trying to cash in with vague articles, laden with platitudes and out with the tar brush.
BritishEmpire - | 148  
17 Sep 2009 /  #15
Britain as a whole is disintegrating. Independance movement in Scotland is growing - this thread is one example of why.

Thats the whole point of what i said, we don't like each other so its no surprise we dislike even further people that are not even from the island in the first place.

Being an island culture is a lame excuse in today's global village.

You know each time i see that i chuckle to myself, i think its become the liberalists favourite one liner.
If we are such a global village as you would like to think then why is it most of the emerging economies have very strict immigration and settlement laws???.

Global trading village would be a better term to use in future as it better represents the real world.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859  
17 Sep 2009 /  #16
Invaders are never treated well, do you expect a couple of million settlers to be greeted with open arms?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,274  
17 Sep 2009 /  #17
I disagree,Britain as a whole is disintegrating. Independance movement in Scotland is growing - this thread is one example of why.

It's definitely disintegrating. Did you know that in the mid-80's, Scottish TV would play God Save The Queen at the end of the night? Can't see that happening nowadays...

As a Scot, I don't call myself British (except when it comes to citizenship!) - I'm Scottish. I definitely don't want to be lumped in with all the Daily Mail reading, scared of foreigners English!
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859  
17 Sep 2009 /  #18
As a Scot, I don't call myself British (except when it comes to citizenship!) - I'm Scottish.

Your passport says differently.

Oh ho ho ho, delusional Scots are very amusing. Do you honestly think England will let you leave the UK peacefully. Excuse me whilst I break my bollocks laughing at your naivety.
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
17 Sep 2009 /  #19
Oh ho ho ho, delusional Scots are very amusing.

agree...:)
delphiandomine 85 | 18,274  
17 Sep 2009 /  #20
Oh ho ho ho, delusional Scots are very amusing.

I think most English people would be glad to be shot of the Scots, what with the constant stories about how English money is being used to subsidise Scotland. Certainly, I don't think you'd hear the Tories complaining too loudly - a UK without Scotland is an almost certain English Tory government for years on end.

Do you seriously think that if the Scottish Parliament votes for a referendum, the referendum comes back "yes" - do you seriously think that the UK Parliament is going to oppose the democratically expressed wishes of the population? I don't think so.

(anyway, if Northern Ireland has the right to self determination, there's no reason why Scotland shouldn't have it)
Harry  
17 Sep 2009 /  #21
(anyway, if Northern Ireland has the right to self determination, there's no reason why Scotland shouldn't have it)

The only country in the UK which doesn't have the right to self determination is England!
santander 1 | 68  
17 Sep 2009 /  #22
The latest antimosity between the British and the Poles. A never ending affair

I have yet to see a polish doctor,or a polish dentist or indeed anyone from the polish medical profession falling the street, which the Independent article seems to profess, by the way in which it classes all polish people together.

Do you have animosity towards your polish doctor if you are dying and he supplies you with the painrelievers that you need? do you have animosity towards your polish dentist if you are in severe pain?

For gods sake get real and stop accepting this crap from a supposedly "reputable newspaper"! They feed you with this rubbish, and only the fools subscribe.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,274  
17 Sep 2009 /  #23
The only country in the UK which doesn't have the right to self determination is England!

Nonsense, isn't it? The situation where Scottish MP's provided the decisive vote in order to establish top up fees for student tuition in England was truly shameful.
mw78 3 | 29  
17 Sep 2009 /  #24
It's all just a scapegoat for benefit spongers to use innit?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444  
17 Sep 2009 /  #25
The only country in the UK which doesn't have the right to self determination is England!

why ? Because it is self determined already?
nat_urally - | 2  
23 Sep 2009 /  #26
i'll start by saying that i came across this site by accident while searching for something completely different (i can't even remember what it was now!) and i have to give it a big thanks for changing my opinions on poles. i cant say that without admitting i was a bit prejudice and i apologise for that. i believe it's because in aberdeen, (i won't say the poles are rude because that's generalising a nation and i hate that!) but the "aberdonian poles" are really bad for it! (also possibly generalising but the ones i have come across anyway.)

another thing i want to say is to delphiandomine! pull yourself out you own a**e! you are british whether you like it or not, be proud that your scottish by all means, but why at the expense of hating the english? i say this as an english girl who has lived here the majority of her life. the anymosity up here is ridiculous. the scots can be really lovely people and i have many many wonderful friends up here not one though that at some point haven't tried to start up some scottish/english debate. why? i am on both sides, i love both countries, but this anymosity makes makes me constantly have to sit there and defend myself. i can easily pass myself as scottish, i have the accent, but these days i tell people as soon as they go to say anything remotely anti-english if only to see the look on their face...and have occasionally gotten comments like " oh, you dont seem it, your so nice"

it's shocking. and i can assure you having lived on both sides and been to england hundreds of times where im considered scottish the anymosity down there is nowhere as bad towards you!

nice to "meet" you all :P

since writing this i realised it turnded less into a rant about delphiandomine into one about general england-scottish stuff! sorry about that, i started, i couldnt stop! basically all i wanted to say to you was, there's nothing wrong with being british. you can ignore the rest :D ..sorry again. my fingers are like a man thinking with his p*nis sometimes ..do before thinking!
isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
23 Sep 2009 /  #27
I'm Scottish. I definitely don't want to be lumped in with all the Daily Mail reading, scared of foreigners English!

So your happy to be just as bad as them,but just not english?? Hypocrite.

and i can assure you having lived on both sides and been to england hundreds of times where im considered scottish the anymosity down there is nowhere as bad towards you!

Quite right love. Im Scottish but have lived in england most of my life and speak with a broad yorkshire accent so always "pass" as english and as such have never heard the level of anti scots sentiment that I hear re the english when north of the border. Sorry,but when I hear scots moaning about the english it just sounds like chippy,little man syndrome.....

So,in short,Im Yorkshire first,Scots second and also British ta very much,and all you deluded wanna be 45 ers just go and greet over the final scene of kidnapped and leave the rest of us in peace in our United Kingdom.
nat_urally - | 2  
23 Sep 2009 /  #28
hi,isthatu2! glad somebody agrees with me :) up here its impossible to find anyone! you are the same as me. im english first easily, i would happily be scottish really but its all the anymosity that causes that.

odd forum to start this debate! :P
what brought you here?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
23 Sep 2009 /  #29
Well, Scotland has had its own devolved parliament since 1999 but it was more of a token gesture. Stormont was established in 1926 in NI and has more overall power than its Scottish counterpart.

Many Scots read the Daily Mail, delph. It's nothing new. I think it would surprise you just how many English sympathisers there are. Think of it in an army context also. If Britain was attacked, Scottish, Welsh and English regiments would be called upon. I'd like to think that, were Scotland to be attacked, that the other 2 would come to our rescue and vice-versa.

Anyway, back on topic. What prejudice is this?
szkotja2007 27 | 1,499  
23 Sep 2009 /  #30
Scotland staying in the "Union" makes as much sense as Poland staying in the Soviet Bloc did.

The only country in the UK which doesn't have the right to self determination is England!

I'm all for an Independant England - go for it !

there's nothing wrong with being british.

To a lot of people there is.

never heard the level of anti scots sentiment that I hear re the english when north of the border

Obviously the English have less to complain about !

but when I hear scots moaning about the english it just sounds like chippy,little man syndrome

Indeed it does and for years the Scots were guilty of it.
Over the years Scots have realised that complaining about England gets you nowhere and that as a nation, Scotland has to look within itself to improve their lot. There is an increasing sense of national pride in Scotland.

all you deluded wanna be 45 ers

Should have stopped at Newcastle !
3000 regrouped at Ruthven after Culloden but by that time the Italian f**er Tearlach Sobieski had done a runner.

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