POLISH ADMIRATION FOR THE IRISH GENIUS JAMES JOYCE

It must be your bottom half that's Irish?.
Can you dance? ;)


This post was by a Polish man.

And i think you will find that Sinéad O'Connor is not liked for anything except her voice in Ireland i.e. she's a tit.


As opposed to who? Your other half?

I disagree and I am not the only one.

Irish Nobel Prize Winners

1923 - for Literature William Butler Yeats

1925 - for Literature George Bernard Shaw

1969 - for Literature Samuel Beckett

1995 - for Literature Seamus Heaney


Using "Politicians" as an example is just wrong, bullshite artists more like :)


Actually many people share this opinion, he is a bone of contention between scholars in Ireland, is it genius or just a rant?.
But that is up to the individual I suppose.


That's fare enough but you seem to live in two different worlds?
Jumping from "The Irish" to "our" depending on which way you want your argument to go.

Van Morrison - mediocre? I personally don't think so, neither would I say Enya or Clannad are. I think you have exaggerated the lack of talent the Irish have! Oh sorry, did I forget the world famouse U2...silly me! More recent bands such as Snow Patrol seem to have enjoyed the lime light too.

Nope. He is Scottish or English. :):)
Poles don`t have such profound knowledge of Irish authors and the Irish ways to promote Irish authors.


I love Enya and Clannad. But you are wrong. They aren`t Irish. They are Celtic!!!

Van Morrison was great on any of the records I've bought. Moondance - beautiful stuff. Astral Weeks - just amazing. Jackie Wilson Said - Jackie Wilson should have said "Don't worry, Dexy's Midnight Runners. Van the Man said it all already."

More fantastic Irish stuff - anyone mentioned Teenage Kicks by the Undertones yet? What about A House, The Catchers, My Bloody Valentine, um... Thin Lizzy!

This confused me?


I did not know.

I don't see Irish people (except perhaps me) promoting Irish anything on here or in Poland.


What are you trying to say?

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Of course Ireland has some great musicians but this thread is about literature not other art forms, no?.

Apart from the obvious Nobel prize winners.

Joseph O'Connor "Sinéad O'Connor half brother (i think) and a great writer"
Oscar Wilde,
Jonathan Swift,
Bram Stoker (Dracula),
Patrick Kavanagh ,
Brendan Behan ,
Etc....
And they are known for the writtings in the English language, there are plenty more as Gaeilge (In the Gaelic language)
The list is endless.

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But this is about auld Joyce and he is/was and always will be controversial.

im afraid there`s no such country as celtic. they are irish.

lets not forget jockeys
ruby walsh, barry geraghty and of course the king a p mcoy to name but three.

I was always taught there are six Celtic nations. Cornwall, Brittany, Ireland, Scotland, Isle of Man, Wales.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_nations

Me too :)


No, Im quite correct.




Kieran Fallon - oh and boxing you had good old Barry McGuigan


*Sorry Mr SBM I just wanted to demonstrate that talent in Ireland is in an abundance*

I do enjoy Eavan Boland's poetry though :)

i was in aldergrove airport on the night he flew over to london to win the world title. i could not believe how small he was.

cashel blue cheese (slightly off topic)

Ladies and Gents: Please, try to keep on topic.

SeanBM : 1, I'm fully aware that the post was by a non-Irish person.
2, I've long held the belief that the Nobel prize is a bit of a joke, just look at some of the more recent winners of this dubious honour.

3, The apparent confusion between my use of 'our' and also 'Irish' stems from my upbringing, which was as part of the Irish diaspora, to believe that I was Irish, and then my later disillusionment with Ireland when I went to live there and realised that all the positive things I'd been told about the country and the character of the people were largely B.S.- and I could point out quite a few Polish people who would wholeheartedly agree. I'm not saying it's a bad place- just not remotely close to what the hype would lead one to expect. Proud to be Irish? Well, not really, not anymore, not unless someone could explain to me exactly what there is to be proud of. I'm at a total loss.

I thought you would mention Al Gore alright, non the less you have not come with anything of merit, so far you are comparing to the wind or phantom.


I wouldn't know about the "hype".
But just because you got disillusioned and cynical, by what you had been led to believe is neither here nor there. All I can say about that is, you have a fine coat of arms for yourself :)

I am not saying Ireland is perfect but you can't say that



And expect me to put up with such ill informed views.
Who are you?.

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What are you talking about?
Did Ireland not welcome you back with open arms and a cup of tea, no wonder.
But this is another debate, no?

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As for your views about Joyce, that is your prerogative and we should probably focus on him.

Did anyone mention Rory Gallagher - he was a mediocre performer.... yeh right. The man was utterly brilliant.

Back on topic I was forced to read Ulysses when I was in my teens and it was horrendous. Three years ago i read it again and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't think the text had changed in the meantime so it was probably something to do with my changing or having had a bit more experience of life.

SeanBM: Actually I wasn't thinking of Al Gore, I'd quite forgotten about him. I don't think my views are so ill-informed, I've lived in a few different countries, and by 'hype' I refer to the same hype that surrounds Joyce, mostly a great deal of immodest trumpet-blowing. When I started to voice my opinions of Joyce and Irish culture in general, I had no idea it would hurt your feelings so much. Don't take it so personally, it's just a few minor gripes, ok? To spell it out clearly- Ireland is very good at singing its own praises, but doesn't have a lot to back it up. That is the point I was making. And again, I'm still not sure exactly why I should be proud to be Irish- nobody ever explains that bit.

P.S- the coat of arms isn't Irish.....

byronic:
I have read some of your other posts on other topics and find you to be interesting and you speak your mind. Attributes I like in people.

Your opinion on Joyce is exactly that, an opinion, fine.


How should i take it? if not personally?
I am proud to be Irish and you are not.
You go on about the "Hype" that you were brought up with and I am used to everyone looking down their noses at us.

Ireland has had a tragic history and this is reflected in our attitude and insecurities towards ourselves.
I do not share your view that Irish people think they are great and pat themselves on the back without having anything to back it up., quite the opposite.

I find your argument, your personal way of showing your dissatisfaction with how you thought the fairy tale land would be. This is a thread about James Joyce not Ireland, that is in your head.

You have yet to grace us with who or what you would consider to be good literature?.


That's OK, it is still nice :) , nobody's perfect (And that from an Irish man, wha?) ha ha ha

Well, thank you for the compliment (at least I think it was!) I usually find (generally speaking) that there are two types of Irish: the returned emigrants who have been out in the big wide world, broadened their minds and their outlooks. And then there are the ones who only ever ventured abroad on holiday and tend to be much more parochial in their outlook- I repeat, generally.

but I digress again- what do I consider good literature? I suppose something that keeps me turning the page and entertains me, but without the writer patronising me by explaining the plot step by tedious step as if I were a 5 year old (Stephen King is guilty of this style, it's as if he assumes that the reader has an I.Q slightly higher than that of a hamster- and he is the worlds top-selling writer, what does that suggest about dumbing-down ?!!?).

In my humble opinion two vastly underrated writers are J.G. Farrell, an Anglo-Irish writer who only completed 3 novels before he died in an accident, and a Cork man, William Trevor. Their writings are so subtle that often the full meaning of what they were conveying only dawns on the reader the next day. Another author I like, but purely for entertainment is Derek Robinson. Incidentally he lost out on the Booker prize in '71 to Farrells' novel 'Troubles'- Perhaps unsurprisingly this was set in the twenties in Ireland. Of course, back in '71 the Booker prize was awarded to writers on the merits of their novel and not because a certain style, setting or ethnic group were in vogue, unlike now.

But to get back to Joyce- when a pretentious, pompous ass with an affected accent and mannerisms like David Norris proclaims himself a Joycean scholar then it should be a clear signal to give Ulysses et al a very wide berth!

This generalization is in no way attributed to Ireland alone, isn't every country subject to this, generally?.

Stephen King = Rubbish agreed.

I am reading "borstal Boy" by Brendan Behan at the moment, it is enjoyable but not what I am used to reading, I like "Guns, Germs and steel" by Jared Diamond or The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins.

They are not literary but scientific and truly fascinating, I recommend them both.
Just a little point Jared Diamond I found out today, Diamond was born in Boston of Polish-Jewish heritage

As for Joyce, let me put it this way, he would not be my first choice ;)

But maybe it is as Szarlotka says, it is something that I could get into later, ha ha ha preferably much later ha ha ha.

(I get the feeling many years from now I will read and enjoy Joyce's "Ulysses" and look back on what I have written here and kick myself ha ha ha and if I don't like it, ah well, I will find someone to kick? ha ha ha)

I don`t know why.
You wrote:
I never knew that his works had been translated into polish or that Polish people read Irish literature, is it just Joyce?.
Very interesting.

And I answered:

Hey, come on, Poland is a European country. :):):)
Stevenson and Shaw are known and translated. I don`t know about reading, but I had to read them when at uni. As well as Yeats and Beckett.

And later on I wrote:
Poles don`t have such profound knowledge of Irish authors and the Irish ways to promote Irish authors.

What does it all mean?
It means that although all Irish authors are translated and published in Poland because we live in a European country which has contact with the European cultural heritage, yet most people don`t read Irish authors and know nothing about Irish literature in the same way as the Irish know nothing about Polish authors and literature, except for a few passionate fans of Polish stuff.

Does it make sense?


???? Nothing special. What do you suppose I was trying to say? Certainly nothing to diminish the Irish...

Wel, I'm glad that we are all still friends- in cyber space anyway. There's nothng really wrong with Ireland, it's just nothing special, that's all. In fact my Irish side of the family were so obnoxious that i had to change my name by deed poll, convert from catholicism to Anglicanism and join an Irish cavalry regiment in the British army before they finally took the hint and stopped contacting me with the begging bucket. But that was 20 years ago. Anyway, I wish you all a very happy 2009, and may your God bless you (as Dave Allen used to say)

Do you like orange colour? :):):)

Then who are special?? What manifested you this idea that they were?? Where you naive enough to believe that a people could be special?? Where you sold an idea and felt as though you were robbed?? All the fingers point at you and you're notions.


You are a shambles.

Yes, I did not understand that first time.


I don't know?, I did not understand why you separated Irish and Celts, I suppose.


I know that, I certainly did not take it that way.
I know I can be a bit sensitive sometimes but I hope I am reasonable or at least entertaining ;)

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Who are you?
I got the impression that you live in Ireland now?
This is getting all very personal and I do not wish to offend you but can you see
what is happening here?.
This is a thread about POLISH ADMIRATION FOR THE IRISH GENIUS JAMES JOYCE and you are getting out frustrations you have with your family.

I hope you find peace in the new year.

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I worked with a guy from New Zealand once who new everything and nothing about Ireland.
Had this delusion that Ireland was the end of the rainbow and we all walked around talking in Limerick poetry all the time, it was very strange.

He got robbed down the docks in Dublin, when he came over.
I think it could of happened anywhere but the higher something is the further it has to fall, I guess.

sounds like an irish back packer in australia for matter...

I cannot imagine what a strange fellow your friend was- my parents are from Limerick, and I would be hard put to find a place less likely to inspire poetry, a small, dim, backwater that the locals like to think of as a city for some strange reason.

Anyway, I find the title of this post interesting, especially the word 'Admiration'. I wonder how much the post writer would admire Joyce, or anything Irish if they knew how much the vast majority of Irish resent, or indeed actually hate, Polish immigrants. Every day at work I listen to a never ending stream of bigoted bile regarding the Polish.

'they're taking our jobs, etc, the country is ruined because of them, etc'
Fact: the Polish helped to fuel the Irish economy over the last few years- which was solely based on construction- by building houses, so that Polish builders could live in them, to build more houses for Polish builders who would live in them, who in turn would build more houses for Polish builders to live in, etc, etc, ad infinitum...- and they are so far helping to prevent a complete collapse in the housing market by paying rent in properties that would otherwise be empty (expect a lot of property bargains in Ireland when the Polish start to leave), and also many of them are working in low-paid jobs that the locals will not do.

Another thing about the Irish that irritates me intensely is that they say that the Polish are bad drivers. I don't claim to be the greatest driver ever but having been driving cars, motorcycles and trucks since I was 17, including a 12 year stint continental driving, I can safely attest that the Irish are by far and away the most hopeless, clueless drivers I have witnessed in the 16 European countries that I drove in on a regular basis. Any time that the incredibly high death rate on Irish roads is mentioned one will always hear it blamed on 'de forrinurs'. But the fact is that Ireland had a colossally high accident rate long before immigrants arrived here en masse. Yet woe betide an immigrant who is involved in an accident here, it does not matter if they be Latvian, Lithuanian, whatever, and that it was very probably the dopey Dub who was wrong, popular opinion will label the foreign person a Pole and automatically blame them.

It's also annoying to hear Irish people saying that the Polish do not speak English very well- after 17 years living off and on in Ireland i still have a struggle to understand the locals guttural accents, even the pretentious Dublin 4 set with the psuedo-english-home-counties accent. Generally the Polish are far more coherent.

I didn`t write this. But I won`t say who did. I am not an informer.

Someone who can't write in English anyway, I haven't a clue what they are rattling on about.

Re Joseph O'Connor: again, this is just my opinion, but I think he is another vastly overrated writer, overrated in Ireland at any rate, he doesn't seem to be particularly famous outside these shores. One wonders if he would ever have come to anyones' notice had it not been for having a famous sister. Many years ago I read his 'Secret life of an Irish male', I wonder now that he is older, and hopefully wiser, he ever looks back on this dreadful book with embarrassment? At any rate it was enough to put me off him for life.

byronic,

You obviously hate Ireland and Irish people yet you live there.

You are now insulting, I will not be.

You have gone from personal details about your inner hatred for the Irish part of your family to now outwardly attacking other Irish people.

The one thing that is blatantly obvious is,
Your points on how hateful the "Irish" are against the "Polish", is exactly what you hate yourself and your family for.

That in fact you are a hypocrite of the highest order.

You have problems but they are not mine or Ireland's, perhaps you should talk to a professional, you are obviously tormented.

I am very annoyed about what you have written.

This is a false interpretation of the truth, I could take ANY country and take the worst examples to spew my intolerance and hatred.

I thoroughly enjoyed Joseph O'Connor's "Star of the Sea. it is an excellent book and beautifully written.
Although set in the back drop of the potato famine, it follows the main characters across to the land of opportunity (America) on a coffin ship, it is a fascinating look at the characters and their inner struggles (rather than outer).

And if anything is an under rated book.
I have bought it for other people to read.

I can not take your points of view about anything "Irish" seriously because you are full of hate.

If it was left and right that were different there could be a lot of falling over.

Has anyone mentioned Roddy Doyle on this thread? (asked the lazy donkey)

Not yet (answered the even lazier priest).
I have seen the films, I know that the books are probably better.

THE COMMITMENTS - HQ Trailer ( 1991 )



This film is a must see for anyone curious about what Dublin Ireland was like before the "Celtic Tiger".

Witty, showing a different look at the inhabitants of a city with high drug use and low employment and has great music.

Interesting the last thing said in that trailer is from the full quote " Ireland are the blacks of Europe, Dublin are the blacks of Ireland and the North side are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once and say it loud, I am black and I'm proud"

Personal rating 10/10 (I am sentimental, although perhaps more "mental" than "senti").

The Snapper
Not as good as the commitments but it was iconic in Ireland at it's time.

The Family

The Family Roddy Doyle was a four part series on television.
Each episode focused on a different family member.
Son, daughter, wife, husband.
It is much more serious than the other two.
Worth noting is the young boy's episode which was exemplary.
10/10 for the son episode (possibly because I see myself) but the rest were lacking the energy the son had.

I am being a bit more "pushy" than normal about Irish talent because I am still browned off with the attacks on my homeland on this thread lately.

When I read Doyle's Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha, I thought he'd based the father in it on my own Dad, even down to him teaching himself how to drive

Has anyone read `Round Ireland with a fridge` by Tony Hawks? For me it sums the Irish up, a great read as well.