Problems of renting in the Polish market

And you said what exactly??

What you said is Polish tenants are in a better legal position than UK tenants? Or did you say that UK law favours the landlord?? NOT the same thing....It's like (now let's keep this simple...) saying "compared to Victoria Beckham, most UK women are fat" is not the same as saying "Most UK women are fat".

Keep digging!! Need a bigger shovel?

As previously stated...retract your ridiculous statements about Uk law favouring the landlord and about the rental market being in its infancy...you get a full blown apology from me......simple as that!

didn't you read the whole thread??
i keep repeating myself...

oh and i see even you did quote it...

thanks, no shovel needed...

No shovel needed? Nope, can see you're doing just fine with the one you got!

compared to the mentioned other european countries that is still true... i listed a number of cases and so did others... what is the problem with that? yes. even in the uk property development and letting properties is not an el dorado anymore. sorry if that bites into your profits but that doesn't change the facts mentioned in this thread.

as a landlord in the uk you are still most likely better off than in many other countries...


i never said that most uk women are fat. i always had the comparison to victoria beckham (ie other countries) in my statements...

apparently you must have edited your post while i was posting mine which makes my previous post look a bit funny. sorry for that...
but quoting parts of your post after editing and me posting my post is not a very clean argumentation...


again. i never made this as a standalone statement without further explanation...


cleared that one up already a few posts ago...


i am not THAT desperate yet...

So stick to what you know then, stop talking crap about things you obviously know nothing about! (see below...Bullsh*t bullsh*t....)



Falkster....Edited post at the same time...not AFTER you posted...but I will apologise for that anyway, as you're right it did make you look like a dik!

Interesting point made by Bubba and especially InKrakow.

So it seems to be true that buy to let in Poland is a risky business after all. I understand that rental properties in tourist resorts have a better chance of success but then of course these would be limited to short term rentals. Bubba, what do you think a typical occupancy rate would be for a rental property in a tourist spot ?

InKrakow, you have confirmed what some other Poles have told me i.e. it can be bl**dy difficult to evict non paying tenants.

I wonder if all the foreign investors piling money into Polish property are aware of this ? :)

It seems that the best way to benefit from the Polish property market is therefore by capital appreciation (either by holding onto the property for a number of years OR by adding value to a property in the form of a renovation or remont)

Joo Who & Falkster,

You are both as bad as each other ! If you want to continue name calling then please do it via private messages and NOT on this topic.

absolutely no idea spiritus and could only hazzard a guess - if i remember correctly, the occupancy rate for the hotel i ran in sopot last summer was in the region of 80% - i could have should have improved on this considerably... that said, sopot is a prime location and not comparable to many other resorts

i think careful planning/marketing could achieve a reasonable occupancy rate in most tourist locations, during the season

i agree with your view that the best way to financially gain from polish real estate is through capital appreciation or renovation - i am renovating and then renting whilst i wait for longer term growth

Ok...

Renovation work...good architect required!
Renovation work...good builder required!
renovation work...good project manager required!

So, with the Falkster being a fab architect, and my other half being a fab builder, and me being super woman, juggling 2 jobs, running a holiday business and project managing self builds, while ensuring family life runs smooth...we should be a great team!!??

Poland ...brace youself for an architectural revolution! The capital gain is a foregone conclusion.....seems that the prospect of renting while sitting out the price rise could be slightly hazardous and a game I think I would prefer not to get involved in....had enough problems with tricky tenants last year to keep me going for at least a decade...

I have made enquiries regarding obtaining planning permission...seems not too difficult...so another way to play might be to go for new builds??? Holiday lets...then sales after 2016??

Spiritus...did you consider being a school teacher?? I think you'ld be good! As long as wrist smacking is permitted in your chosen educational establishment!! Don't answer that! I'm feeling REALLY petulant and will insist on having the last word....! And if you have ever before messed with a woman with nicotine withdrawal on a bad hormone day, and after 6 restless nights.....you know you would be better to willingly throw yourself to the lions!!

Again, this depends where you are looking at investing. In Krakow we have no Unitary Development Plan so pretty much every decision to do anything that impacts the aesthetics of a building (e.g. converting an attic, new build, extensions up or out) requires an outline planning permit (WZiZT) and this takes 12 months or more (especially if the local authorities don't have registered addresses for the owners of the neighbouring buildings - I've had to travel to Wiltshire to get the written permission of some of mine to extend). Then you need to get a Building Permit which again, should take 60 days here but often takes longer. All in all, that's a lot of time for your money to be tied up with no certainty of getting the result you want. So we've found it pays to make friends with people who have connections with the architecture department....

I don't mean to put you off - Krakow is particularly bad - but you should check this out before going further!

What was it you were saying about not talking crap about things you obviously know nothing about?

And what useful advice would you like to give me Harry??? Constructive and polite please?? I can inform you i have already consulted the local architectural dept and they have advised me I would have no problem in this area....which happens to be "not Krakow".... so can you add anything to the official discussion (with translator) that has already taken place...?? Please do enlighten me.... And if you failed to notice, my comment was followed by no less than DOUBLE ?? which was politely requesting the advice of my "betters"....not sure you qualify!!

Thanks for sensible constructive comments and sound advice from inkrakow and bubbawoo, and for positive leadership form Spiritus....

Oh, and Harry ....Bless YOU!

i did NOT call anybody anything a single time but made some points that others apparently disagree with but which started a fruitful discussion.
you should be happy with the result...

regarding investment i read here a statement about holiday resorts which seem to be a good option as you won't have the problem of long term tenancy and possible problems of evicting tenants.

on the other hand you'd have to calculate for a far higher wear of your property (believe it or not long term tenants often take more care of their homes than anyone in a holiday place would).

than there is the problem of maintaining the property (checking and cleaning after one tenant left, preperation for the next one etc).
so the maintenance factor is quite considerable and probably not easy to solve with either yourself or a trusty person on site...
but possibly one or the other landlord on here has directly experience with that?

regarding long term tenancy projects in bigger cities (which seems to me to be the other end of enquiries here) it appears that most landlords that did the step and are posting on here feel the problem of the legislation being more pro-tenant is more present in poland than in the uk.

and only to clear my point that i earlier made one thing: the renting market (legislationwise) will always be more pro-tenant. where ever you are, simply because the tenant needs protection as property owners are in tenancy agreements usually in the stronger position. unfortunately there are a few landlords out there who do not believe in equality of human beings and that behave as little monarchs within their properties.

seeing that, i believe that many uk landlords who think they have a very unfair pro-tenant legislation at home, get quite a wake up call when they consider investing in buy-to-lets (at least in parts) in mainland europe...

i am not sayingit is paradise for you landlords in the uk, but you are certainly closer to paradise than you would be in many of the above mentioned places...


thank you. i take it as you said it...


okay. that explains a lot. i've gone through that after smoking for 23 years... it's not easy and you act like a wounded animal for about a week. but i am sure you'll get over it...

shall we make peace then?

I've only been living in Poland for 13 years, what do I know about the place?

You on the other hand have visited for a couple of weeks and had an "official discussion" and so have realised that there is no way in hell you would be encouraged to invest your cash and then when it is cheaper for you to pay off officials than to walk away from your investment be encouraged to make some donations to local officials. You clearly have a huge amount of experience dealing with red tape here and know that there is virtually none of it. You, to give just one example of the amount of red tape here, have had to visit five government offices, one bank, an accountant and a print shop over a four-week long period just to register as a self-employed person.

I've seen an aweful lot of Brits come to Poland with amazingly good ideas in the last 13 years. And I've seen most of them disappear with their tails well and truly between their legs. But I don't think I've ever seen one as likely to be soon disappearing back to the UK as you. Good luck, you're really going to need it.

Point cleared!


No....I been running round my yard screaming abuse at the chickens, aiming pitchforks at my dog and trying to strangle the goat! More acting like woundING animal!!


I have 6 years experience of holiday letting in South West England... from the advertising, to cleaning and catering....and while it's much harder work than long letting, it doesn't present any of the bitter prolonged legal battles. I think this route will be my way forward here in Poland.....lots of ideas .... involving horses and log cabins and pipe dreams .....but if I say any more, someone will jump on me for daring to dream, berate me for talking crap and pour cold water by the bucket full....


Why not?


Man! That's one looooong sentence! Is English your first language? Cause I can't make head nor tail of your (gratefully received!) ever so useful constructive advice!

I'm enjoying my 2 week vacation here though!! LOL!! Want me to send you a postcard??

There seems to be some useful points on both sides in the above comments. My personal experience has been:
Bought 30 ara of land next to lakes and forest in April 2007
Foundations for one house had already been build, so building permission established.
Changed planning permission to 13 apartments, this took 3 months.
Formed Limited Company, regon, nip etc, took 1 month.
Instructed architect to design apartments (in Western style) in late November.
Power line too near plot so arranged for removal (one month as owners of surrounding plots had to be notified)
Architect gave me finalised project this weekend ( I made many changes....lol)
Building regulations should take 6-8 weeks.
So, basically, this has taken roughly the same time as projects I have carried out in the UK, approximately one year from buying the land to starting construction, but unlike the UK, there has not been one objection!!!

Thanks, Avalon....you have encouraged me immensely! it took us 12 months in Uk too! With 3 million objections! Here in poland,we are in no rush to start anything yet...after years of slogging it, and stressing it..we will just be relaxing on the farm with the dogs and horses for a few months....but we are not quite old enough to retire......however I'm too scared to say any more for fear of inviting negative comments ...and while I'm usually in feisty fighting spirit...tonight I'm feeling a tad fragile!