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"Forma własności: hipoteczne" - why is this on a property schedule?


gdj67 15 | 154  
3 Dec 2007 /  #1
This is from a property schedule. Can anyone help with a translation into English.

I think it has something to do with the owner's existing funding arrangements, ie they have a mortgage, but don't understand why that needs to be on a schedule?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary
glowa 1 | 291  
3 Dec 2007 /  #2
what do you need translated? "Forma własności: hipoteczne"?

"form of ownership: mortgage"

there's no word that would indicate a schedule, unless there's something I don't understand about mortgage :)
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
3 Dec 2007 /  #3
Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

What I need translating is: "Forma własności: hipoteczne"

I it means "form of ownership: mortgage" I don't understand why this is stated on the schedule, as the owners fanancial arrangements shouldn't have any bearing on the property. Confussed :(

Gary
glowa 1 | 291  
3 Dec 2007 /  #4
yeah, that's what it means, but the rest, no clue. you need to ask someone who can do more than a translation.
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
3 Dec 2007 /  #5
On a schedule of a property I am looking at has the phrase:
"Forma własności: hipoteczne" which I believe means: "form of ownership: mortgage"

I don't understand why this is stated on the schedule, as the owners fanancial arrangements shouldn't have any bearing on the property. Confussed :(

Gary

Ok glowa, thanks for your help.

I'll ask on the property threads.

G
plk123 8 | 4,149  
3 Dec 2007 /  #6
of course it does as in a way it clouds the title.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
3 Dec 2007 /  #7
there are various different types of property ownership in poland and these are often specified not only on the schedule but frequently in the adverts for property themselves
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
3 Dec 2007 /  #8
of course it does as in a way it clouds the title.

I am sorry, I don't understand what this would have to do with me as a buyer?
If the owner has a mortgage on the property then when they sell, they use the proceeds from the sale to clear any outstanding debt.

In Britian, this is done buy the solicitors before the money actually gets into the owners bank account so that they don't run off with the money.

...........or is it different in Poland?
plk123 8 | 4,149  
3 Dec 2007 /  #9
right but do you HAVE TO use a solisitor? you don't here in the US.

i don't know enough about Polish land laws to tell you further.. i know others here do though.
Michal - | 1,865  
3 Dec 2007 /  #10
his is from a property schedule. Can anyone help with a translation into English.

It might mean that the present owners of the land or property took out a loan or mortgage at some time and are therefore NOT the sole owners of the land/property when it comes to be sold.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
3 Dec 2007 /  #11
hmmm... will try but i dont fully understand the ins and outs of much of it which as far as i can tell has to do with the ownership of flats iven out by the state

i have come across properties (flats) where you buy it from the owner (occupant) but dont actually become the owner yourself until some point in the future - 5 yrs or more. These properties are often extremely cheap or are offered on an exchange deal whereby you give the owner (occupant) another flat and get teirs in return... except you become the owner at some point in the future

i have come across a number of flats where you are not able to take a mortage out on them for whatever reason so must buy cash

the weirdest ones i have come across is where some how you buy ownership of a room in a larger flat - possibly having a communal kitchen and bathroom... i have a friend who owns a room with a huge balcony overlooking one of the best streets in sopot but 3 or 4 other people own rooms in the same flat and they all share kitchen and bathroom

i have another friend whose mother has lived in a state owned flat in gdansk old town and has the option to buy it... except her mother also has a room in the flat which is considered a seperate residence and in order for my friends mother to buy the flat she needs the consent of her mother... who wont give it to her...

or something like that...
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
3 Dec 2007 /  #12
From my experience, and I've bought many properties, in Britian, yes you have to use a solicitor. You would be a fool not to and I doubt it's possible not to in the UK.

I could be wrong, but the title deeds for a property are incredibly complicated so you need legal advice.

But this still doesn't answer the question about why it is of any relivance wether the owner has a mortgage or not. Unless property laws in Poland are different and mean that if someone has a morgage then they don't have title to the property. In that case, they are surely not legally entitled to sell?

Still confused.

G

Thanks Grzegorz
I'll get my Polish partner to translate it for me :)
plk123 8 | 4,149  
3 Dec 2007 /  #13
yeah mortgage puts other parties into the "interest" realm. i am guessing same thing in PL. other interest is somewhat of a cloud on the title as it isn't just one simple owner..

deeds aren't all that confusing here in the US nor the ones i have seen from poland.. simple lots in a division.. however, i am sure there are many different kinds of ways of trasfer so i am sure it can be a real cluster f....

Thanks Grzegorz

yes, thank you.
andy b 4 | 156  
3 Dec 2007 /  #14
In terms of ownership in Poland, "hipoteczne" has nothing to do with the owner's financial arrangements, despite it also being the word in Polish for mortgage.

It is actually one of the forms of ownership for an apartment in Poland. Other forms are
"spółdzielczo-własnościowe" or just simply"własnościowe".
I am not going to go into the different forms of ownership here as I am not 100% sure of my facts, however my understanding is that for a foreigner, a "hipoteczne" apartment is the best (only?) one to go for, as the apartment itself has its own "ksiega wieczysta" or ownership deed. This separates it from the rest of the building (and also gives it a % share of the commonly owned areas of the building and land). Other forms of ownership (mainly for older style block flats) don't specify that you actually own the apartment you are buying, but more a share of the building/land.

*Note - if the seller does have a mortgage over the property they are selling, this will be picked up by the notary who draws up the contract, as it will appear on the "ksiega wieczysta" (which they have to check). It would then be a part of the sale that the mortgage is cleared so that the new owner buys the apartment which is free of any debt.
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
3 Dec 2007 /  #15
Thanks Andy,

Very helpful.
G
alek  
3 Dec 2007 /  #16
From my experience, and I've bought many properties, in Britian, yes you have to use a solicitor. You would be a fool not to and I doubt it's possible not to in the UK.

I could be wrong, but the title deeds for a property are incredibly complicated so you need legal advice.

But this still doesn't answer the question about why it is of any relivance wether the owner has a mortgage or not. Unless property laws in Poland are different and mean that if someone has a morgage then they don't have title to the property. In that case, they are surely not legally entitled to sell?

Still confused.

G

You need to learn what's "hipoteka"

If someone took a morgage (called "kredyt hipoteczny") to buy a property then it's written in "hipoteka" as "kredyt hipoteczny" or something similar.

When buying a property you need to check (that's why it's important to hire a lawyer) if "hipoteka" is clear; if it's not, the owner-seller needs to make an application to the appropriate office (the notary office) to clear the "hipoteka". Even if the morgage is repaid the hipoteka won't be cleared automatically. It requires that an existing owner makes an application plus pays a stamp duty and then it can be cleared from any "conditions" written in "hipoteka" .
inkrakow  
4 Dec 2007 /  #17
On a schedule of a property I am looking at has the phrase:
"Forma własności: hipoteczne" which I believe means: "form of ownership: mortgage"

No, it means that the property has its own deeds (Ksiega Wieczysta).

If the owner has a mortgage on the property then when they sell, they use the proceeds from the sale to clear any outstanding debt.

In Britian, this is done buy the solicitors before the money actually gets into the owners bank account so that they don't run off with the money.

...........or is it different in Poland?

There are no solicitors involved here, only a notary and client accounts aren't common practice. The purchase is complete (and binding) only when the notary signs the final act of sale, which is why you would want any debts secured against the property to be paid off before he/she signs that document. Otherwise, you're liable for them.
Michal - | 1,865  
4 Dec 2007 /  #18
, "hipoteczne" has nothing to do with the owner's financial arrangements, despite it also being the word in Polish for mortgage.

No, this is not right. The Polish word for a mortgage is hipoteka and the word hipoteczny is a record of land owership. They are not necessarily one of the same things.
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
4 Dec 2007 /  #19
I appreciate the comments from everyone.

it means that the property has its own deeds (Ksiega Wieczysta).

- This appears to be the most important point, which I would have taken for granted. Just goes to show you should never assume anything.

Thanks again,
Gary
inkrakow  
4 Dec 2007 /  #20
I think that it's pretty much irrelevant whether the ownership is hipoteczne or "spółdzielcze własnościowe" (where you have a share in the whole building and the land) as the process to convert from the latter to the former is pretty straightforward (albeit time consuming) and you have the same rights to the property. One of my flats has a spółdzielcze własnościowe form of ownership and as the management company is doing a great job, we've agreed we can't be bothered with the hassle or expense of setting up separate KW for each flat.
OP gdj67 15 | 154  
4 Dec 2007 /  #21
I think that it's pretty much irrelevant whether the ownership is hipoteczne or "spółdzielcze własnościowe" (where you have a share in the whole building and the land)

That may be true inkrakow and I appreciate your input, but I would be a little nervous about the implications when the time comes to sell. Is it liable to put people off or have an adverse affect on the future value for example. Especially if the market develops more along the lines of western european countries where title to the actual apartment (rather than a share of the building) is the norm.

The very fact that it is making me nervous, proves the point somewhat.

G
inkrakow  
5 Dec 2007 /  #22
Fair enough!

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