Poles, get ready for mass migration from Russia !

For Ukranians Russia is the West. :)))

You may just compare population of Russians and Ukranians in Poland... and everything will be clear.
P.S. Under "Russians" and "Ukranians' I meant citizenship only.

I don't know the population of Ukrainians or Russians in Poland..tell me.
The statement came from my family members who actually meet them and talk to them.

I don't mean e-stuff in stores.. Let me give you some example.

In Poland, for example, I have a bank account, secured by password sent to my mobile each time I want to do some operation, also secured electronic token (small thing that generates unique code, same as vie mobile text just different to get it). My bank e-account is connected with my brokerage office. So I can sell or buy my shares directly from one website, or my mobile phone from which I can also use those services.

So, making it more complicated I pay all my medical insurance, all bills, rent for a house and do the financial things from the bus while going to work. Tens of companies working on one software. And all that for FREE, without any extra fees. Just basic services in basic bank account.

In Ireland for example, I cannot even do basic things on my bank account during a customer service phone call. Most of the things still must be done on traditional paper traditional way in the bank (only in my branch, they cannot do the things other branches even though it's the same bank). Other mentioned by me options is still Star Wars technology.

Just gave you the first example I had on my mind. There's of course few more examples from other countries comparing to whom Poland looks very western.

Of course we still have some lacks in many sectors, as everyone I think, but I wouldn't say that Poland is technologically much behind the western countries.

Yes, I know what you're saying with the security token and number. We use it here too. I agree that Poland is pretty well equipped technologically in that respect, but you must admit that there is still plenty of unnecessary bureaucracy when it comes to post office or any official business in town hall or village hall. The necessary paperwork and signatures needed are form 30 years ago.

But, that's OK..for now.
Someday one can walk in, ask to get a business license in (whatever) and walk out with one held in his/hers hand :)

Nie od razu Kraków zbudowano.

I agree with you Eurola. That's one of the sectors we were left behind. ;)

It's above.


I agree that those figures are conservative yet they reflect the proportion.

Hardly the truth.
Sure, Moscow was a kinda Russian Klondike during the Putin's oil rush.
Piter to some extend ...
But same goes for Kiev.

As for the rest of Russia ... it's fully "compatible" with the deepest Ukrainian glubinka, not even to start with cities like Donetsk or Dnepropetrovsk.

You should have better said the rest of Russia is like Kiev. I know lots of Ukranians-Kievans who prefer to work as engineers in Moscow rather than in the hometown. It's the truth otherwise we wouldn't have now bunches of gastarbeiters hijacking people. As for the crisis itself - everybody experiences it.... more or less. As for now I wouldn't emphasize Russia as the country having the biggest troubles. But I understand you want things to go that way.... :)

Kiev is the most beautiful Slavic city, even with all Soviet admixtures.
Not to compare with the Russian average.
But Moscow has guts and some post-Soviet era color.
I love Moscow.

Being a fellow British Expat, I totally agree. I came here to escape the UK and try a new world and new life. I miss a couple of things from the UK, but not much.

It's interesting reading about migration to Poland after it being a 'problem' in the UK. I say 'problem' because the only people who seemed to have a problem with it were the media and the lazy unemployed who blamed the Polish for them being out of work for the last 10 years. I suppose it's the fault of the Polish that they prefer to drink beer all day instead of job hunting too?

As for the smuggling, nothing new there. In England there are many places where you can buy Polish cigarettes and alcohol 'under the counter'. And I mean quite literally, they are kept under the counter and only served to Polish people when nobody is looking.

T

Oh... yeah... love the Russian cradle. :))

Hear, hear wildrover!

Because Poland had to start from the beginning, in the above technology, I would argue that the country didn't suffer the mistakes of others.

The telephone system is American technology, most people being brought up to date in the early 90's. Polish internet was, and is, ahead of the game... as has been pointed out already on the forum. Polish IT specialists are in demand.

I was always amused by the fact that I could watch the UK's channel 5 here in Poland when my folks in the UK couldn't get a signal. That was in the past. The restriction I have now is various Euro agreements.

Poland is not some little backwater in these areas. If others are looking for our specialists... Google etc are willing to invest in the country. Then I would say we are ahead of the game.

I concur, Wrocław.

I remember the poor reception of Channel 5 in the UK. Poland surpassed America in broadband technology a few years back. I'm not sure if the US has redressed the balance.

As I said yesterday, Poland is no7 in the world as an attractive investment proposition.

Russians, if the ruble picks up, should invest in such a key area of the future.

I heard that. I was planing to visit Ukraine and St. Petersburg many time. Just never had time.

Hope Russians will cancel visa requirements for us, it's just disturbing.

Geographically - yes, of course :) But being West does not mean being admired dream country. Its not about the money only, it is also about the children's future. As a person who has several Polish friends, but does not know much about Poland, the perspective to become a second-class citizen based on your nationality (my impression after speaking to some ethnic Poles from Russia!), with very limited possibilities to find a good-paying job in the country and move elsewhere because of passport troubles, is not that lucrative. No offense, sorry, just pure cost-benefit analysis. But I am open to other opinions, too.

And I mean, I am not alone, the majority of Russians don't know anything about Poland either and would not pick it up as "immigration destination".(I have no idea about Belarus and Ukraine, though.)

I am just tired to read gazeta.pl forumites, Borrka among them,claiming (or hoping) that all that Russians all pray on Poland just because it is "Europe" and "West" and "more civilized" and whatever and wanted to clarify things a bit :)

Anyway, Borrka, thanks, u have learned that my nation's name is not kacaps and not moskals but Russians! Yiiipppeee! what a progress!


When you are ready, let as know :) It's a bilateral move.

You know, we are responsible for EU borders security. We cannot let people come in just like that anymore.. It's different situation than before.

But I don't see any benefits for Russia in keeping visas for EU citizens, Americans, Australians, Canadians etc.. It's just slowing down big money making machine called tourism.

As far as I know for the US citizens the visa procedure is pretty easy and the problem can be handled by one single call (which can't be said about US visa for Russians). I strongly doubt it's any more difficult for the EU. Another point is that... well... imagine that Russia is a different EU (it's big) and take your look at the problem from this point of you. Think you got it now. We'll get uncontroled migration in case we open our bourders. One should apply his mind before altering things to any new state.

Another point is that the current Polish Gov (as well Russian one... but that's another story) profits politically with help antirussian paranoia which it blown out in Poland through the media. The easiest way doesn't mean right. :) In its turn Russian media perfectly uses Polish articles about Russia to inflate antipolish moods within Russia... and I can't say they absolutely fail in what they've done. Against the background of the whole situation visa-system cancellation doesn't seem to become a reality in the nearest future. And we both WooPee may be good fellows and be glad to see each other in our countries but that doesn't always coincide with Gov's policies.

I think there's some right in your words, however I wouldn't blame the government itself. I don't know about Russia but in Poland the government doesn't have any much to say about what the media are writing about. It's only up to them, and as much as they don't brake the law the government can't do much.

- Why don't you move over there for good? It might be mutually beneficial - for you and Poland. So?
:)